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AI Improvement Mod (1.03 Release)

 
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AI Improvement Mod (1.03 Release) - 6/30/2014 11:11:52 AM   
Icemania


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EXTENDED 1.03 RELEASE

VANILLA 1.03 RELEASE

All:

The AI Improvement Mod to apply the new Research Build Order capability in the race files introduced in Patch 1.9.5.5, combined with Design Template and Policy File improvements, has now been released 1.03 for Vanilla Distant Worlds. The AI Improvement Mod has also been integrated with Haree78's sensational Extended Universe Mod 1.03.

Both downloads are structured as a new Theme and will need to be placed in the "Customization" folder.

In each download there is a file "AI Improvement Mod.xls" that includes the full Research Order design for each race as well as other information e.g. weapons focus selections. Please feel free to apply any of the ideas here in your own mods ... no permission is required.

Developer Support Wishlist (Outstanding)
• Tractor Beams on Spaceports pull in troop transports until they get very close and then hold them. Spaceport tractor beams should push away, not hold, as soon as a troop transport is in range. This should apply for all diplomatic relationships except for a Mutual Defence Pact (where there should be a massive diplomatic penalty for a surprise attack). This could be used to help prevent sneaky invasions by human players (which is an AI exploit).
• The AI should attack homeworlds far more frequently with multiple fleets as often they attack with a single fleet which does not have sufficient invasion strength. Any competent AI commander would combined with other available fleets (including Allies). The result would be that human players would be defeated more often and strong AI's would become more dangerous as the game progresses.
• Even with the correct Construction Size technology and plenty of available cashflow there is a delay before the AI will build Resupply Ships. Please advise what the trigger is or remove the delay if hardcoded.
• There are some fields in the Empire Policy Files that I cannot get working. Specifically the AI does not disassemble recovered ships (even when set correctly per the Modding Guide). Note: some problems previously mentioned appear to have been fixed but are not in patch notes.
• Could the AI build more Construction Ships very early game? To help the AI with Research Shortages.
• Could the AI retrofit ships that are not in fleets and Construction ships (particularly around Warp Drive) more proactively? Often ships remain without upgrades for extended periods even when plenty of cash is available.
• The AI will sometimes retrofit fleets during a mission (e.g. just about to reach a target) or even in the middle of combat. Retrofits should occur when the mission is complete and hostiles in the immediate system are cleared.
• Could the AI use Protection Agreements with Pirates more often when they are too weak to defend themselves? And then cancel those agreements as soon as the Pirates leave their systems? This would help the AI better handle Pirates.
• With the Securan (and other happy races) the AI does not optimise tax rates. Happiness is often set more like +50, suggest a target more like +20. They would remain a Happy race as designed but will improve income.
• Use Research Build Orders when games are built that are not pre-warp starts.
• Allow the AI to use troops on fleets to destroy Pirate structures. When Pirates build structures the Empire AI only seems to use the troops on that planet to attack Pirate facilities. On small worlds the AI rarely has enough strength and so Pirate facilities flourish. The idea was to allow friendly fleets to land troops and attack those Pirate facilities, just as human players do, so the AI is at less of a disadvantage. The probability that fleets are used to attack Pirate structures should maybe increase for more advanced Pirate structures. Coming in Patch 1.9.5.8
• Occasionally some Troop Ships would not fire at enemies. Just attempt to flee, or hang around twisting and turning. Some turn up at well defended planets without support.
• Fix the Double Population Growth Rate bug as reported in Tech Support.
• It's not possible to modify the time it takes Damage Control technologies to repair a component. As this is part of the Modding manual I've reported it as a bug in Tech Support.
• Gravitic Weapons do little damage to Space Monsters such as Giant Kaltors but from the description in Galactopedia they should, so reported in Tech Support.
• Fix the Bug which prevents improved Shakturi Design Templates being used for the Return of the Shakturi as reported in Tech Support.

Developer Support Wishlist (Completed and Thanks Erik and Elliot)
• Add the ability to configure the Ship and Base tactics in the Design Templates. The default AI settings for Stronger Opponents and Weaker Opponents leads to suboptimal choices and this setting could vastly improve performance particularly for Short Range Weapons. A ship with Titan Beams should attack Point Blank where it has the highest DPS. A ship with Torpedoes should attack by Standing Off. A ship with Phaser Lances should attack at mid-range (as it has no loss) to minimise enemy DPS. In that test Long Range Weapons were clearly superior. This change would allow Short Range Weapons in particular to be more competitive (depending on speed etc). Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.8
• Add the ability to configure the Tractor beam tactics (i.e. push / pull) in the Ship and Base Design Templates. Refer Post 189-200 for discussion of test performance and benefits. Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.8
• The game automatically designs Capital Ships to expand to the largest available Construction Size, but not Carriers. Please implement the same for Carriers so the Fighter focused races are not at a disadvantage. Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.8
• Even with the correct Construction Size technology and plenty of available cashflow there is a delay before the AI will build Capital Ships. Please advise what the trigger is or remove the delay if hardcoded. Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.8
• Allow Civilian Ships to be shrunk (again with minimum settings to ensure useful ships are built). Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.8
• Fix the Energy Collector bug as reported in Tech Support. Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.8
• Some Military Ships are built with no weapons (note I have a lot of larger sizes in the Design Templates) when they are shrunk by the game. There should be a minimum amount of weapons (say 50%) in the design before the AI should be allowed to build that ship. Significant improvements in Patch 1.9.5.7
• In the Design Templates Fighters Bays should be counted as a weapon. I’m trying to design a Fighter focused race but to avoid a crash I need to include another weapon that is not the focus for that race. Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.6
• In monitoring the AI across various races, Helium Resource Shortages are very common, and Osalia Resource Shortages are common for Beam races (almost nothing is in stock). Could starting stocks of these resources please be increased to assist the AI? Resolved in Patch 1.9.5.6

Changelog: 1.03 Release
1. Corrections made to Colony Construction Speeds
2. Corrections made to Research Colonisation Costs and Colony Construction Speeds for Shakturi
3. Extended race graphics applied to modified help files for Vanilla races

Changelog: 1.02 Release
1. Escort Ship Designs for Keskudon and Zenox changed to Size 230 to align with other races and to ensure buildable early game.
2. Keskudon Ship Designs include Bombardment Weapons to align with their Research Order (Extended only).
3. Carriers for races that do not use Fighters/Bombers now use the updated designs i.e. that are used by Figher/Bomber races. While they are not use by the AI those designs maybe used by human players.
4. Resupply Ships now have 20 Docking Bays.
5. Ship tactics added for details refer to the "Extended AI Improvement Mod.xls" Summary Sheet. Carriers are always "All Weapons", however.
6. Tractor Beams added to all Spaceport designs.
7. Tractor Beams added to Capital Ships for all races using Point Blank Tactics i.e. to pull them in.
8. Tractor Beam research added for all races (except for Gravitic Weapons focused races that researched Tractor Beams already).
9. Galactopedia updated to include the Weapons focus and Energy Research preferences for each race.
10. Increased Troop Garrison Levels, where possible.
11. To resolve problems with Freighter shinkage, changed ResearchDesignOverallFocus to 0 (Balanced) for the Ackdarian, Gizurean, Kiadian, Wekkarus and Jintus. This should have no other effect as the Research Orders and Design Templates are customised anyway, but please report any problems.
12. Increased construction sizes by one class at each technology level. This resolves problems with Civilian Ship shrinkage and means larger ships are available for the AI earlier.
13. Resupply Ships now available at Enhanced Construction with designs optimised for Size 1200, which helps the AI with early game resource shortages.
14. Increased the number of docking bays on Gas Mining Stations.

Changelog: 1.01 Release
1. Fixed some design templates with Gravitic Weapons races to ensure that there was a mix of Gravity Beams and Area Gravity Weapons. As it takes a little time to research Area Gravity Weapons, some designs in the previous releases had no weapons until Area Gravity Weapons had been researched, putting those AI's at a disadvantage.
2. Advanced Colonisation Research is now completed by the AI much earlier in the Build Order i.e. so the AI uses the largest colonisation module more quickly. Inserted Optimized Cargo Storage in High Tech Research Orders to ensure Advanced Colonisation is researched, this was an error in the previous release.
3. Reduced Gerax hyperdrive speeds and increased late-game hyperdrive speeds. This helps prevent the AI from sending ships and fleets unreasonable distances before they are ready to do so. Pirates will be a little less effective which helps the AI Empires. Late game mop-up operations can be done more quickly. It should also help the Shakturi if the human player has not given hyperdrive research sufficient focus.
4. Modified AI Energy Research Build Orders to more strongly reflect the styles of each race i.e. balanced / speed & agility / power / efficiency. In the previous release, while Special Technologies always had focus, the Energy Build Order was fairly generic since I always felt AI Empires that focused on speed/agility were at a disadvantage. However, now that the benefits of hyperdrive research are greater, there is more balance.

Changelog: Alpha to 1.0 Release
As the community feedback to the Alpha was positive a decision was made to go straight to 1.0 Release. There were not a large number of changes from Alpha to 1.0 but they are important:
1. Changed Troop Transports so that they can be built at Size 300. It appears changes to how the game shrinks Troop Transports were made in the 1.9.5.6 Beta as this was definitely working earlier. I’ve added Troop Compartments to the larger ship designs to compensate for the smaller Troop Transport design templates. We'll have to keep an eye on what happens with future patches as well and I'll update as needed.
2. Fixed the upgraded Pirate Ship Designs to ensure they include Assault Pods. My bad on that one, too much testing without Pirates, given the AI is poor at dealing with them effectively.
3. Implemented a temporary change so that Size 230 is available at the start of a pre-warp game. This way the mod's upgraded Civilian ships can be built immediately and I’m not forced so put out two versions of the Mod i.e. one with seriously nerfed Civilian Ship designs for Expensive or above Research settings on a pre-warp start. As a result the Mod can now also be played on any Research setting. Note Civilian Ship Shrinkage remains on the Developer Support Wishlist as this would be the better solution.

General Research Improvements
To provide more consistency in AI research:
• Medium and Large Spaceports contains labs sufficient for a race appropriate balance
• Research Priority set to Normal (so Stations will be built at locations with bonuses) but with only 2 Labs per Station (to avoid upsetting the balance).

Racial Technologies get a high focus to ensure the distinctive features of each race are quickly used in game.

Advanced Fighters Bay no longer have Medium Torpedo Bombers as a pre-requisite i.e. so the AI can focus on either Missile Bombers or Torpedo Bombers.

Death Rays and Super Lasers are included in the Tech Tree. Many AI races will research Death Rays once their Primary focus areas are completed and the Insect Races will research Super Lasers (restricted). However, inclusion of these in the final version depends on further testing and feedback.

Integrated Francoy's Colonisation Rebalanced Mod including changes to Research Orders, Race Files, Research Costs and Policy Files.

As Civilian ships are currently not shrunk, there is a temporary change so that Size 230 is available at the start of the pre-warp game, so that the mod can be used on all settings. This will be removed in an update if Civilian Ships shrinkage is enable in future patches.

Design Template Changes
I've changed the Templates to have one primary Weapon Type and also generally increased the Ship sizes as follows:
• Exploration Ship template designed to ensure always available immediately from a pre-warp start
• Escort template designed for Size 230 (should be buildable at Size 160 however)
• Frigate and Troop Transport template designed for Size 300
• Destroyer template designed for Size 400
• Cruiser template designed for Size 500
• Capital Ship template designed for Size 650 (they scale up automatically as larger sizes become available)
• Carrier template designed for Size 975 (buildable once Size 650 is available noting the 50% size bonus, also they scale up automatically as larger sizes become available)
• Resupply Ships designed for Size 1200
• Cruisers, Capital Ships and Carriers include Troop Compartments to buff AI fleet ground invasion strength
• Many other improvements across all ships and bases including the private sector

Empire Policy Changes
In the Policy Files I have made primarily changes that apply to the AI of any race. Otherwise the characteristics of each race have been preserved.

To encourage the AI to build more large ships the following ratios were set:
• Capital Ships 50% (0% for Fighter focused races)
• Carriers 50% (0% for non-Fighter focused races)
• Cruisers 12%
• Destroyers 8%
• Frigates 6%
• Escorts 4%
• Troop Transports 20%

To ensure the AI prioritises selected Wonders for each race as applied in PrioritizeBuildWonderId.

As the AI typically overbuilds facilities:
• Each race can only build one or two Academy types as appropriate to the race.
• 500M: Cloning Facility, Fortified Bunker, Terraforming Facility
• 5B: Ion Cannon, Planetary Shield, Armored Factory
• 10B: Regional Capital, Selected Academies
• Robotic Troops and Troop Training Centre disabled i.e. in favour of Cloning Facility.

Any race with Low Military Construction Levels was set to Normal (as some races are far too weak otherwise).

Any race with Low Troop Recruitment Levels was set to Normal (as some races are far too weak otherwise).

All races have Exploration Priority increased to Maximum (since the AI massively underbuilds Exploration Ships at default).

All races have Trade Priority increased to Maximum (which means an early focus on Construction Ships to get mines going quickly to help prevent shortages ... to an extent).

Large Spaceports take quite some time to Construct so changed to build at 6.5M rather than 3M (helps the AI speed up the start of researching).

General increase in number of ships assigned to Fleets (20), Strike Forces (6) and the proportion of ships assigned to Fleets (75%).

Invasion Overkill Factor increased for all races (to help the AI invade with sufficient strength, otherwise there are too many attacks that have no chance of success).

Ship Battle Caution Factor increased for all races (to help the AI attack with sufficient strength, otherwise there are too many attacks that have no chance of success).

All Insect Races can build Planet Destroyers and will Destroy Planets at every opportunity.

All Insect Races will Bombard Planets at every opportunity. They are meant to be Nasty after all!

All Insect Races are more Willing to go to War.

Some races now do not flee from Battles, they fight to the death!

Willingness of all races to control Restricted Resources increased.

Captured or recovered ships are always disassembled for technology and resources (while set per the Modding Guide it does not work).

Medium Size Colony Tax Rates are now set to Zero.

Increased Troop Garrison Levels where possible.

Racial Biases
Increased positive and negative biases (without going overboard) with the races split into 4 groups (ensuring each group uses a variety of weapons).

By increasing the positive biases for races within a group they are more likely to form Mutual Defence Pacts. With the changes to fleet coordination in Universe this should mean more mega fleet battles.

Each group has negative biases set against another group, so they are more likely to go to war i.e. Group 1 v Group 2, Group 3 v Group 4. I've had to many games in the past where nobody declared war even on Chaos throughout the entire game. So now, if you decide to take a back seat and your partners go down, you could then be facing a strong alliance of opponents, without as much support ...

Weapons Balancing
Changes as per the OP summary in the Weapons Balancing thread.

The primary intent is to ensure that races which focus on particular weapons are competitive. Some weapons such as Rail Guns and Phasers are underpowered at default settings.

Racial weapons provide a strong advantage early game, limited advantage mid-game but it should be possible to catch-up by late game with enough research effort.

Missiles and Rail Guns should provide an advantage early game, be at parity mid-game, but be relatively weak late game. However, they should not be ridiculously weak so that races that use them still have a chance.

Pirates
All Private Ship & Mining Stations designs improved e.g. increased extractors and more speed which should help them.

All other Pirate Ship and Base designs have been aligned with Race Weapon selection, a slight size increase for some designs, and there has been a general tidy up e.g. removed items that they will never realistically research.

My Favourite Screenshots!







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Icemania -- 9/30/2014 4:36:02 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 3:18:51 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1550
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
Just completed testing a similar approach to the Wekkarus. After 12 game years they had built Traders Bazaar and Trade Guild with 4 times the military strength of the nearest AI default empire.



(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 2
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 4:00:04 PM   
hewwo

 

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awesome work! Although combining this with any kind of balance mod would be... a lot of work. Oh well:)

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 3
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 4:41:46 PM   
Efaferal

 

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IceMania

You just saved me a ton of work!

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 4:59:16 PM   
PsyKoSnake


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Looking foward to this change apply to all race vanilla + extended:)

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 5:04:34 PM   
Sithuk

 

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@icemania: great to see you've finally jumped / been lured into becoming a modder. You are one of a select few whom I'd pick to lead an AI modding effort. I am very much looking forward to what you come up with.

< Message edited by Sithuk -- 6/30/2014 6:04:58 PM >

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 6:24:13 PM   
Tanaka


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Thanks how would you apply this to all AI races?

_____________________________


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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 11:15:58 PM   
Icemania


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From: Australia
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With the standard improved research order developed it will just require minor adaptations to be race specific. For example, the Gizurean are next to test, they will focus on Growth Wonders, Beams and Bombardment (I know I said one Primary Weapons but a bug race has to have Bombardment), will add a few more Weapons laboratories on their Spaceports and focus on Naval Academies.

Other ideas are welcome and I'll just progressively work through the races as time allows around work and family.


< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/1/2014 12:16:17 AM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 11:36:02 PM   
PsyKoSnake


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Dont forget to play:P

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Post #: 9
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 6/30/2014 11:42:16 PM   
mensrea


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Great ideas, man. This is definitely the ideal use for these new modding features and its opened up my eyes to a new world of possibilities when it comes to meaningful AI changes.

I actually think this would work even better with a weapon balancing mod as the way it works in vanilla seems to favor torpedoes and lasers while railguns, missiles and graviton weaponry occupy more of a niche role.

I hope you will grant rights to other modders to draw on your works (properly cited of course). I personally see this kind of stuff as the most difficult and time consuming work there is, modding wise, and would hate to replicate it from scratch.

Question: will you make some races prefer numerous small ships, or medium sized ships, etc, just as you have the Quameno favor capitol ships?

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 10
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 1:10:32 AM   
hewwo

 

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Yeah there should be a bit of weapon balancing of course, but not sure if an AI mod is the right place for that. It would be nicest if we can keep mods a bit modular:)

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 11
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 2:22:38 AM   
Tanaka


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

With the standard improved research order developed it will just require minor adaptations to be race specific. For example, the Gizurean are next to test, they will focus on Growth Wonders, Beams and Bombardment (I know I said one Primary Weapons but a bug race has to have Bombardment), will add a few more Weapons laboratories on their Spaceports and focus on Naval Academies.

Other ideas are welcome and I'll just progressively work through the races as time allows around work and family.



Thanks will you be doing this for extended as well?


_____________________________


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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 6:03:43 AM   
Sithuk

 

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@mensrea: the more a race builds small sized ships the more it is handicapped. The changes that icemania has made to the much greater proportion of larger sized ships is one of the best tweaks for creating a challenge for the human player.

@icemania: can you make available any files that could help those of us who want to contribute to roll out the changes to the other races? Or at least the "baseline" changes and leave it to you to make the "race specific" tweaks. Is the "DW-Generator" mod tool a benefit for altering whatever files you are changing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mensrea

Great ideas, man. This is definitely the ideal use for these new modding features and its opened up my eyes to a new world of possibilities when it comes to meaningful AI changes.

I actually think this would work even better with a weapon balancing mod as the way it works in vanilla seems to favor torpedoes and lasers while railguns, missiles and graviton weaponry occupy more of a niche role.

I hope you will grant rights to other modders to draw on your works (properly cited of course). I personally see this kind of stuff as the most difficult and time consuming work there is, modding wise, and would hate to replicate it from scratch.

Question: will you make some races prefer numerous small ships, or medium sized ships, etc, just as you have the Quameno favor capitol ships?


(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 13
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 9:01:40 AM   
Icemania


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Sithuk:

Your offer to help is very welcome!

I'll test the Gizurean this evening and then post a link to a Zip file for the working Mod when done. At this point the changes will have been made for the Quameno, Wekkarus and Gizurean. After that the plan was to do the other Insect Races next. Which races did you want to focus on (to ensure we do not double up)? Please test each race where changes are made to see what else could be done.

In the Zip there will be an Excel file "AI Improvement Mod" which presents a far easier to read summary of the Research Order Changes and Research Items. Please update this with new tabs for any additional races that are completed. Then it should be easy enough to consolidate the changes.

All:

Feel free to download and test the races changed so far. Comments are welcome.

mensrea:

I was planning to ensure that some races focus on railguns, missiles, gravitic weapons and area weapons ... important there is a lot of variety and distinctiveness amongst the races rather than the current weapons smorgasboard.

As Sithuk mentioned the intent was very much to avoid small ships for all races and I consider them a significant handicap.

Regards,
Icemania

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Post #: 14
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 9:20:21 AM   
Icemania


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Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks will you be doing this for extended as well?

Vanilla first then either happy to work with others and help or for other Modders to use the content and adapt at their discretion.

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Post #: 15
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 12:26:15 PM   
acantoni

 

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Awesome work!

While i won't expect to contribute much to the creation itself at this stage i definitely look forward to provide you some feedback

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 4:04:03 PM   
Icemania


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[SUPERSEDED - refer latest link in the OP]

Races updated include the Boskara, Dhayut, Gizurean, Quameno, Shakturi, Sluken and Wekkarus. Ideas to further improve the Race, Policy or Design Templates are welcome. Probably the best way to do this is to select one of these races, play on full auto, and note any observations in this thread.

Note it's setup as a theme.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/6/2014 5:05:55 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/1/2014 7:40:21 PM   
wasa

 

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Looking forward to test this


I guess the No Pirates option has to be turned on? Got in the the game once I turned it off (although I got in with pirates on in a small galaxy with 3 other empires)

< Message edited by wasa -- 7/1/2014 9:16:00 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 5:59:04 AM   
acantoni

 

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Started test game as Wekkarus with full automation (ruler in absence setting), playing a standard start (no-prewarp)
The first thing i notice is that no ship except constructor are buildable, escort is size 367 so won't be buildable for a very very long time.. and no exploration ships too.
I will let it play on to see if AI autodesign something or won't build anything for the first 10 minutes

This was done overwriting files from my theme.. this actually make the game work with pirates too!

2151.05.01 First construction tech is researched and explorers are buildable.. no military ships yet
2152.02.01 There is an indipendent colony nearby , but the ai doesn't have military ships to clear it nor is building colony ships (smart it would be shut down).
Wekkarus has 14 explorer, 3 construction ships. Planet and shipyard are idle
2154.06.01 Wekka can now build Escorts! 3 are under construction now.
Other empires already have 4 colonies, Wekka is stuck with the HW and now 3 escort.. no troop transports are buildable and no plan to conquer the Indipendent colony are in motion apparently
2155 Indipendent was colonized! pirates likely buyed off not to attack it. Wekka now has 9 escorts and 1 cruiser found by explorer.. finally we are getting back in track
In research we are at 20% to discover the trade bazaar
2157 AWWWW i found out that if in my previous game i had some design to "manual upgrade" it did carry on this setting for that specific subrole!! now i put everything in automatic and the AI redesigned a Frigate of size 390 which is buildable... still no tropp transport though and the design doesn't exist at all...
Since it was my fault for those settings i will recreate completely the game from scratch and retest

New game with no pirates and AI improvement mod Theme only
2154.05.01 Still only constructor buildable, AI is not redesigning exploration ships nor Escort
2155.01 Terrible start.. Ai is building 2 defense base and we have no energy research (sitting at 30k from the space port) , at this rate wekka is going to be completely crippled since won't build explorers for 10 years
2158 Out of pity i built 2 research base
2165 Empire is going well and at war with Humans... there are no transport deisgn available at all


New game with Quameno
2154.01 Same as Wekka, only construction ships are buildable and no exploration ships
2155 Exploration ships are built, transport ships are completely missing
2161 Quameno have researched Rusan and Casidor, Quameno have 200k+ (but close to 0 cashflow) and the wonders are not built. No transport design at all


My observation:
I guess this is optimized for pre-warp start? In my opinion Explorers should be immediately available
Two races do not have transport design available at all... don't know why


< Message edited by acantoni -- 7/2/2014 10:18:31 AM >

(in reply to wasa)
Post #: 19
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 10:22:24 AM   
Icemania


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From: Australia
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acantoni, please test again Pre-Warp.

I tried to replicate Standard start and the sequence I had with Wekkarus was:

2150.06: 240k Weapons Research, 480k Energy Research (2 Research Stations), 240k HighTech Research.
2150.10: Size 300 Research Completed. Only now Escorts and Exploration Ships become buildable and Construction starts.
2151.01: 3 Firepower 91 Escorts have finished Construction.
2152.01: 14 Exploration Ships are now in Operations.
2152.07: Size 400 Research Completed. Frigates start Construction.
2154.09: 20 Exploration Ships, 24 Military Ships (the smallest is Size 291).

A slightly different outcome!

Observations:
1. The AI started with a Medium Spaceport and did not upgrade to Large until mid 2153. I do not understand why given the Policy file threshold is 5M.
2. I had a look in game editor and it appears Dhayut Rail Gun research does not work on a Standard Start even though it works exactly per the Race file Research Order with a Pre-Warp start. There is clearly something strange going on here so maybe other issues also.
3. You mentioned 30k Energy from Spaceports. The Spaceports I've designed have 0 Energy Labs. Research Priority is 2 so in my pre-warp tests normally 2 Energy Research Stations were built (sometimes 1 but never 0).


(in reply to acantoni)
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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 10:27:39 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Two races do not have transport design available at all... don't know why

Thanks, I'll move up Transport Systems higher in the research orders.

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 10:33:17 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: acantoni
2161 Quameno have researched Rusan and Casidor, Quameno have 200k+ (but close to 0 cashflow) and the wonders are not built. No transport design at all

I also very much have Extreme difficulty in mind with this ... where the AI empires will have the cash to build those wonders.




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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 11:08:02 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wasa
I guess the No Pirates option has to be turned on? Got in the the game once I turned it off (although I got in with pirates on in a small galaxy with 3 other empires)

Did you get some error messages? In the Pirates Design Templates folder there was a file "vssver2.scc" that I had deleted thinking it was a mistake. I got crash dumps until I returned them ... I'll post a new link at close of play tonight with this fixed and other changes implemented.

(in reply to wasa)
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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 11:47:32 AM   
Icemania


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In the Distant Worlds AI thread I suggested modifying Spaceport designs to improve the lab mix.

With the mods made in a recent patch the AI now builds more Energy Research Stations, but inconsistently e.g. depending on cash. I was trying to work with that but it seems problematic.

Instead I have set Research Priority 0 in the Policy files (to avoid building Research Stations) with the desired Labs all in a Medium or Large Spaceport. This also means those Labs are less vulnerable.

I've just tested with the Quameno (thinking they would be most likely to build Energy Research Stations anyway) and appears to work.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/2/2014 12:48:06 PM >

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 1:09:06 PM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Two races do not have transport design available at all... don't know why

Thanks, I'll move up Transport Systems higher in the research orders.


Found the problem ... in the template files Troop Transports appear to need at least one weapon.

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Post #: 25
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 1:16:35 PM   
acantoni

 

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Hey Icemania!
Great that you found the issue with TT ! I actually tried a new game from pre-warp start but even when the tech was discovered it still wasn't available so it's settled now!

Is there any way you know off to force the wonder construction? there are some wonders, like the Trade Bazaar that you should always build it will net you a cashflow boost in the HW and even other wonders (like Rusan) they will still net you a positive income thanks to the + colony dev bonus -> maybe this is a feature request for Elliott

quote:

With the mods made in a recent patch the AI now builds more Energy Research Stations, but inconsistently e.g. depending on cash. I was trying to work with that but it seems problematic.

Instead I have set Research Priority 0 in the Policy files (to avoid building Research Stations) with the desired Labs all in a Medium or Large Spaceport. This also means those Labs are less vulnerable.

Will the AI still build research station where there are bonus? If not i am not convinced this will improve the AI performance though of course we can test :D


Just so you know when starting in your theme with Pirates i do get the error message aswell.. maybe it is linked to the transport?

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Post #: 26
RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 1:41:26 PM   
Icemania


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acantoni, I appreciate the comments, some help is important to get this right.

I've now reduced the Exploration Ships sizes to avoid too much of a delay early. They are now buildable once Size 230 is available. There are still extra fuel cells and thrusters. After all the most important factor was having larger Military Ships.

I don't know of any way to force wonder construction if the AI doesn't have the cashflow. PrioritizeBuildWonderId appears to be set correctly for the races updated. I agree for TradersBazaar the AI should build even without the cashflow given the boost received. I agree it will need Elliott.

quote:

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Will the AI still build research station where there are bonus? If not i am not convinced this will improve the AI performance though of course we can test :D

It's a catch-22.

With the new approach the benefit is that AI research is consistent. There is neither far too much or far too little Energy Research depending on the starting situation. As you mentioned it's a massive handicap.

I agree a better solution is needed but I just don't see how to make it work ... as least not yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Just so you know when starting in your theme with Pirates i do get the error message aswell.. maybe it is linked to the transport?

Seems to work when "vssver2.scc" was added to the Pirates template folder. I have no idea what it does!

Oh and Dhayut now focus on Merkidor Planetary Fortress.



< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/2/2014 2:46:56 PM >

(in reply to acantoni)
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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 1:44:45 PM   
Icemania


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[SUPERSEDED - refer latest link in the OP]

< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/6/2014 5:06:14 PM >

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 1:57:43 PM   
Icemania


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Elliott, any chance at the start of a pre-warp game, that the AI could build a Small Spaceport and then immediately upgrade to the right level for the population i.e. Small -> Medium -> Large (if appropriate). When a Large Spaceport is built the AI can lose a lot of research time waiting for it to build.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/2/2014 2:58:25 PM >

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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod - 7/2/2014 4:38:01 PM   
Cauldyth

 

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These changes sound great and should be rolled into the default game...

(in reply to Icemania)
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