Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
I'm currently looking to buy an edition of War in the Pacific. However, I am wondering, which version of them I should get.
Obviously, Admiral Edition is the currently most up-to-date version out there, and as it stands, I am strongly considering it. However, before I make the plunge, I was wondering about a few things:
1) How does this rate compared to the 'regular'/original War in the Pacific game?
2) What are the main differences between AE and the normal? The product page mentions revisions to naval systems, cargo, troop transport, supply matters, OOBs, new unit types and formations, combat enhancements, and of course a more detailed hex grid (I imagine) at 40 nm/hex. This leaves me with several questions stemming from that:
--2A) Just how major are these revisions that were made? Obviously they improve things, but just how? How have certain mechanics changed, and which do you think is the 'better' system of the two?
--2B) What are these new units, and is any one nation/side favored over the others when it comes to these additions to the rosters?
--2C) There's specific and major mention of the new 40 nm/hex scale for the game in the features list. What was the original scale, and how much larger/smaller is the map (in rough dimensions) now to account for this change? How much does it change gameplay that this is the new scale?
3) Lastly, the game mentions that Admiral Edition is of course a standalone expansion...but I wonder, is it basically WITP with the above enhancements, or are there things that I'd get only if I buy the base game/both of them? By this I mean scenarios primarily.
4) And last but not necessarily least, though somewhat unrelated as well: Are any of these enhancements present in Admirals Edition also integrated into the War Plan Orange game as well?
I appreciate your answers in advance and look forward to hearing wha tyou all have to say about it.
Obviously, Admiral Edition is the currently most up-to-date version out there, and as it stands, I am strongly considering it. However, before I make the plunge, I was wondering about a few things:
1) How does this rate compared to the 'regular'/original War in the Pacific game?
2) What are the main differences between AE and the normal? The product page mentions revisions to naval systems, cargo, troop transport, supply matters, OOBs, new unit types and formations, combat enhancements, and of course a more detailed hex grid (I imagine) at 40 nm/hex. This leaves me with several questions stemming from that:
--2A) Just how major are these revisions that were made? Obviously they improve things, but just how? How have certain mechanics changed, and which do you think is the 'better' system of the two?
--2B) What are these new units, and is any one nation/side favored over the others when it comes to these additions to the rosters?
--2C) There's specific and major mention of the new 40 nm/hex scale for the game in the features list. What was the original scale, and how much larger/smaller is the map (in rough dimensions) now to account for this change? How much does it change gameplay that this is the new scale?
3) Lastly, the game mentions that Admiral Edition is of course a standalone expansion...but I wonder, is it basically WITP with the above enhancements, or are there things that I'd get only if I buy the base game/both of them? By this I mean scenarios primarily.
4) And last but not necessarily least, though somewhat unrelated as well: Are any of these enhancements present in Admirals Edition also integrated into the War Plan Orange game as well?
I appreciate your answers in advance and look forward to hearing wha tyou all have to say about it.
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Buy WITP AE.
It has the production model (for Japanese side only). This really educates you on how WWII in the Pacific turns out the way it does.
My two cents and worth 99% less than that....
It has the production model (for Japanese side only). This really educates you on how WWII in the Pacific turns out the way it does.
My two cents and worth 99% less than that....
WW2 logistics fanboy and
Rat Rancher
Rat ranching for fun and profit, had better be fun, cause there is no profit.
Rat Rancher
Rat ranching for fun and profit, had better be fun, cause there is no profit.
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
AE is current, it still has <very> limited Dev support, on a purely voluntary basis, by the splendid Micheal. Most folks play this, so if you go to PBEM (best way to play) you can find opponents, it has many improvements over WitP, and it has The Best Community you will ever find in a game (IMHO).
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Obviously, Admiral Edition is the currently most up-to-date version out there, and as it stands, I am strongly considering it. However, before I make the plunge, I was wondering about a few things:
1) How does this rate compared to the 'regular'/original War in the Pacific game?
The training wheels are off.
2) What are the main differences between AE and the normal? The product page mentions revisions to naval systems, cargo, troop transport, supply matters, OOBs, new unit types and formations, combat enhancements, and of course a more detailed hex grid (I imagine) at 40 nm/hex. This leaves me with several questions stemming from that:
--2A) Just how major are these revisions that were made? Obviously they improve things, but just how? How have certain mechanics changed, and which do you think is the 'better' system of the two?
--2B) What are these new units, and is any one nation/side favored over the others when it comes to these additions to the rosters?
--2C) There's specific and major mention of the new 40 nm/hex scale for the game in the features list. What was the original scale, and how much larger/smaller is the map (in rough dimensions) now to account for this change? How much does it change gameplay that this is the new scale?
While certain aspects of the game will look familiar going all the way back to 'Pac War' its a new game in many respects. The original scale in the game (WITP) was 60nm, how much the change affected things I don't recall. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons for the scale change was to get a 'truer' more accurate map. To my knowledge no one side or the other was favored in the change, changes were made to enhance the game. Now there are scenarios and/or mods made by players that do this.
3) Lastly, the game mentions that Admiral Edition is of course a standalone expansion...but I wonder, is it basically WITP with the above enhancements, or are there things that I'd get only if I buy the base game/both of them? By this I mean scenarios primarily.
Its been a long time since I bothered with WITP, but AE puts it to shame.
4) And last but not necessarily least, though somewhat unrelated as well: Are any of these enhancements present in Admirals Edition also integrated into the War Plan Orange game as well?
Not famaliar with WPO.
IMHO if you liked any of its predecessors you love this game. Oh, just one more thing if you are anything like the rest of us maniacs who play this thing kiss your life good-bye.
1) How does this rate compared to the 'regular'/original War in the Pacific game?
The training wheels are off.
2) What are the main differences between AE and the normal? The product page mentions revisions to naval systems, cargo, troop transport, supply matters, OOBs, new unit types and formations, combat enhancements, and of course a more detailed hex grid (I imagine) at 40 nm/hex. This leaves me with several questions stemming from that:
--2A) Just how major are these revisions that were made? Obviously they improve things, but just how? How have certain mechanics changed, and which do you think is the 'better' system of the two?
--2B) What are these new units, and is any one nation/side favored over the others when it comes to these additions to the rosters?
--2C) There's specific and major mention of the new 40 nm/hex scale for the game in the features list. What was the original scale, and how much larger/smaller is the map (in rough dimensions) now to account for this change? How much does it change gameplay that this is the new scale?
While certain aspects of the game will look familiar going all the way back to 'Pac War' its a new game in many respects. The original scale in the game (WITP) was 60nm, how much the change affected things I don't recall. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons for the scale change was to get a 'truer' more accurate map. To my knowledge no one side or the other was favored in the change, changes were made to enhance the game. Now there are scenarios and/or mods made by players that do this.
3) Lastly, the game mentions that Admiral Edition is of course a standalone expansion...but I wonder, is it basically WITP with the above enhancements, or are there things that I'd get only if I buy the base game/both of them? By this I mean scenarios primarily.
Its been a long time since I bothered with WITP, but AE puts it to shame.
4) And last but not necessarily least, though somewhat unrelated as well: Are any of these enhancements present in Admirals Edition also integrated into the War Plan Orange game as well?
Not famaliar with WPO.
IMHO if you liked any of its predecessors you love this game. Oh, just one more thing if you are anything like the rest of us maniacs who play this thing kiss your life good-bye.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Rustysi
Just the answers I was looking for, more or less, and it seems when I can scrounge up the eighty bucks for this, I'll be picking it up.
As for kissing hte life goodbye...it's gone long ago - a couple weeks of juggling War in the East and Civil War 2 have ensured that. I'm just waiting for my wallet to up and die - I'd forgotten how not-cheap Matrix stuff is. Steam's spoiled me for too long.
Just the answers I was looking for, more or less, and it seems when I can scrounge up the eighty bucks for this, I'll be picking it up.
As for kissing hte life goodbye...it's gone long ago - a couple weeks of juggling War in the East and Civil War 2 have ensured that. I'm just waiting for my wallet to up and die - I'd forgotten how not-cheap Matrix stuff is. Steam's spoiled me for too long.
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
OK, so here's more salt in the wound. WITP-AE was just on sale about a week or two ago.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
War Plan Orange is based on a branch off of the original WitP. I think its engine is a bit more primitive than the last revision of WitP.
IMO, AE is a far more rich experience than WitP. It gives you a lot more flexibility and there were some features added to reduce micromanagement.
AE is still being updated and all development on WitP has stopped. Additionally the community for AE is much bigger and active, so you can get your questions answered more readily. I still keep a toe in on the old WitP section of the board and there is the occasional post asking "is anybody still here?" with a little flurry of activity, but that's about it.
I am biased, but I would go with AE.
Bill
IMO, AE is a far more rich experience than WitP. It gives you a lot more flexibility and there were some features added to reduce micromanagement.
AE is still being updated and all development on WitP has stopped. Additionally the community for AE is much bigger and active, so you can get your questions answered more readily. I still keep a toe in on the old WitP section of the board and there is the occasional post asking "is anybody still here?" with a little flurry of activity, but that's about it.
I am biased, but I would go with AE.
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Well, that settles it then - AE it is: I must admit, in having done some more poking around, that WITP:AE has been slightly mislabelled if you ask me: it seems to be much more of a sequel, at least in the view of everyone that plays, and not so much a normal expansion pack, given how thoroughly things have been revamped. Now to wait for a bit of spare cash and in I go.
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Welcome aboard and prepare to surrender life as you knew it.
Todd
I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768
I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Well...I did it, pulled the trigger, got it along with Commmand - Modern Air and Naval Operations...time to get lost in hexes and radar track lines..
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
ORIGINAL: Geredis
Well...I did it, pulled the trigger, got it along with Commmand - Modern Air and Naval Operations...time to get lost in hexes and radar track lines..
Hooked another one, by gawd!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Well, that didn't take long. Welcome to the madness.[:D] OK, remember this game doesn't have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Its not calculus (its been a while, maybe calculus was easier?), but there's a lot going on and a lot to remember. Take the time to read the manual (two maybe three times... depending on age[:)]), its a bit outdated, but its still very useful. There are tutorials online that will help (the one in the game never made it). Load the latest patch, and read its associated notes. Keep in mind that there's still at least one Dev that puts his own time into updating the game. Visit the forum, it'll answer a lot of questions. Also people here have taken the time to pull a lot of things together that'll save you hours/days of fiddling with yourself. I bow to them.[&o][&o][&o]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
I can tell. I must admit, it took me the better part of the past...however long I've been at it today (3, maybe 4?) hours playing Scenario 2 as Japan before I figured out how to move ships and planes. I can change unit stances easily enough for ground forces...but I still can't figure how I'm supposed to be able to move them...I have Historical Turn 1 off, so it's not like I have anything locked in and I can't change things because I'm not 'supposed' to...but yeah.
It'd be nice if I could move the 23rd Army from Canton to invest Hong Kong, or maybe drive towards Wuchow and Kukong.
In this ONE way, War in the East was so much easier...even if that thing is a beast in and of itself in most respects.
It'd be nice if I could move the 23rd Army from Canton to invest Hong Kong, or maybe drive towards Wuchow and Kukong.
In this ONE way, War in the East was so much easier...even if that thing is a beast in and of itself in most respects.
- Bullwinkle58
- Posts: 11297
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:47 pm
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
You have to remember that WitE is one week pulses. AE is 12 hours, and the hexes are 40 miles wide.
To move an LCU (Land Combat Unit) just put it in the op mode you want (changing in and out of Stat can take a few days), click the button at top right that says Set Destination Hex, and click on the destination hex.
To move an LCU (Land Combat Unit) just put it in the op mode you want (changing in and out of Stat can take a few days), click the button at top right that says Set Destination Hex, and click on the destination hex.
The Moose
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
Ah, somehow despite finding Destination Hex for all other units, I couldn't find it for my land forces. Much appreciated, and now to see if I have the patience to make it through a few turns.
- geofflambert
- Posts: 14887
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
- Location: St. Louis
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
If, when you purchase WitP, imagining you're buying a pristine '57 Chevy (with all original parts) that will be worth something someday, forget about it. Get the state-of-the-art.
-
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 11:02 am
- Location: Citrus Heights, CA
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
With AE, you do not need original WITP. WPO is different but AE is everything WITP is and more.
AE is a lot of information and sensory overload. I did not find it difficult to learn, just that it is a lot of information. Maybe because I started with Uncommon Valor, it seemed fairly intuitive {if a LOT of info}. I found WITE to be difficult to learn and not as intuitive.
One thing that did seem daunting at first was the size of the map.....40 mile hexes from San Diego to Karachi? This does pass quickly, but I thought it was one of the biggest challenges at first.
AE is a lot of information and sensory overload. I did not find it difficult to learn, just that it is a lot of information. Maybe because I started with Uncommon Valor, it seemed fairly intuitive {if a LOT of info}. I found WITE to be difficult to learn and not as intuitive.
One thing that did seem daunting at first was the size of the map.....40 mile hexes from San Diego to Karachi? This does pass quickly, but I thought it was one of the biggest challenges at first.
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
I also came to WiTP:AE via WiTE (and just about every other hex-based Eastern Front wargame). My main interest in WW2 has always been the Eastern Front however I was looking to expand my WW2 horizons.
As you would expect, the games are really nothing alike - AE is far more detailed, especially the logistics. After a few aborted attempts I am now up to 24/12/41 in the GC (vs AI) and seem to have a handle on some of the basics!
Coming from WiTE you will most likely be very disapointed in the land warfare model - I was. It takes some getting used to after (IMO) the polish of WiTE. I thought the focus of AE would not be on land warfare - atoll-like invasions not withstanding, but China and to a lesser extent Burma are large land-warfare centric theatres in their own right. You could do a War in China at the same scale as WiTE! The management of the air and naval model make up for the land warfare shortcomings, including as I mentioned before, the logistics. Just planning the convoys and getting the right ships and escorts to the right place to haul supplies, fuel, oil etc took me hours to complete.
I also have CMNAO - again I thought it was an interesting model for sea and air warfare. Totally different to AE - scenarios are short and as you probably have found out can be over in an afternoon, much less emphasis on logistics as there is no grand strategy to speak of - even the largest scenarios like Lightning Strike is over before logistic constraints really kick in - it's more about selecting the right platform to do the job you need. A nice game for short-haul flights!
Good luck with your AE experience,
Cheers
As you would expect, the games are really nothing alike - AE is far more detailed, especially the logistics. After a few aborted attempts I am now up to 24/12/41 in the GC (vs AI) and seem to have a handle on some of the basics!
Coming from WiTE you will most likely be very disapointed in the land warfare model - I was. It takes some getting used to after (IMO) the polish of WiTE. I thought the focus of AE would not be on land warfare - atoll-like invasions not withstanding, but China and to a lesser extent Burma are large land-warfare centric theatres in their own right. You could do a War in China at the same scale as WiTE! The management of the air and naval model make up for the land warfare shortcomings, including as I mentioned before, the logistics. Just planning the convoys and getting the right ships and escorts to the right place to haul supplies, fuel, oil etc took me hours to complete.
I also have CMNAO - again I thought it was an interesting model for sea and air warfare. Totally different to AE - scenarios are short and as you probably have found out can be over in an afternoon, much less emphasis on logistics as there is no grand strategy to speak of - even the largest scenarios like Lightning Strike is over before logistic constraints really kick in - it's more about selecting the right platform to do the job you need. A nice game for short-haul flights!
Good luck with your AE experience,
Cheers
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
The land warfare model in AE was originally developed for island warfare in Beyond Valor and it really needed to be gutted and rebuilt, but we didn't have the resources or time to do it. The AE team was able to make the land warfare model better, but especially in continental Asia, there are other games that do it better. It's still OK for smallish islands.
Bill
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: Considering Buying - AE vs Normal vs War Plan Orange
I know it's unlikely but I had always hoped that WPO would get the AE treatment. 40 mile hexes might help model the short range aircraft with a little more finesse and being able to use waypoints is a big improvement.