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RE: Return of the Sheep!

 
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RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 5:40:14 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Its good to see the suggestions of a Custer like approach are being filtered out.

IMHO, its time to choose your first and second line defence line, get your limited mobile troops in and start building forts. Get your LOC to OZ/NZ secured and wait for the assault.

I dont know whether you make your first line stringer than the second, its up to you but i'd recommend forcing MrKane into as many amphib landings as you can. Time taken in getting even basic prep for a landing gives you time, or forces a mistake from him.

It might be a good time to trickle your BB back to the USA, first refits go first, even via the Panama Canal to the East Coast Shipyards.

** Does your wife know the last PBEM finished???


That my thinking exactly. As BBfanboy suggest I think Tom is going to go for a coup de grace. Most likely in India. And I think he will come long before the Amphib bonus expires.

Yes, my wife was very happy when there was "no more bloody turns to do". I´m pretty sure she won´t be happy when she finds out. So far I managed to keep it a secret...

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Post #: 151
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 5:43:03 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

If Greyjoy stopped your opponent in India by making a Fortress Karachi, he might be planning to send his first wave in India directly there. KB can control the sea lanes all the way to target and the Allies have precious little on land to fight back.
You could consider sending a US Regt. there until the British brigades start arriving. After that, move the US Regt. to wherever you wish.



This is my thinking exactly. I think he will go straight for Bombay and/or Karachi. He will also land on Socotra, Dante and Masirah. And I think he will do so very early. Perhaps as early as February. This is my biggest fear.

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Post #: 152
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:11:08 AM   
JocMeister

 

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December 12th - 41
______________________________________________________________________________

Nothing good with this turn. At least the usual invasion started coming. Some sloppiness by me in China has put me into big, big dodo.

------------------------
Malaya
------------------------

No action here at all. Small KB moves a little south hitting some TFs in the area. Subs are wrecking havoc.

------------------------
Java/PI
------------------------

Another big KB strike at Soerabaja. I think most damaged ships in the harbor will be sunk after this turn. Parts of the Sheep heard that fled PI south is being relentlessy hunted by 3 different TFs. These are decoys (xAKLs) so thats fine. But Tom is to experienced to fall for that and the main body of bigger ships that fled E/NE are being hunted into extinction to. A lone CVE or CVL appeared East of Luzon taking out several ships.

First sweeps hit Clark. I had hoped for a little better results. I will have to give up the airspace now.

quote:

Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 31,070 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 9
P-40B Warhawk x 14
P-40E Warhawk x 40


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-35A: 2 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 8 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 29070 feet


quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 31,070 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 2
P-40B Warhawk x 1
P-40E Warhawk x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-35A: 1 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
40 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 29070 feet


------------------------
CENTPAC
------------------------

Luckily Ent/Lex dodged the subs this turn by going almost due West. Fuel is really starting to get critical though. Looks like the subs around PH has started to scatter. Thats a shame.

------------------------
China
------------------------

Now for the really bad news... Ankang (see screen) starts out empty. I started moving troops there on turn 1 but I should have airlifted in them instead.

quote:

Ground combat at Ankang (82,42)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 429 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 31

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 24

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 24 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Ankang !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 1st SNLF /1


This is really bad. Ankang have a lvl 1 AF which means he can now airlift in troops. My troops are still 10-12 days out. I have no choice but try to LRCAP and prevent troop lifts. But that will expose my LRCAP to sweeps and will be short lived. Ideas?

I don´t have the turn yet but will update the screen once I do. Here is the location of Ankang.




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Post #: 153
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 7:44:34 AM   
Barb


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He cant sweep his own base - not possible with game engine. However your LRCAPing fighters will probably be drawn into any sweep going for Sian...

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Post #: 154
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 8:54:23 AM   
obvert


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Ok. Not ideal with the Ankang drop, but that is tough territory, and he can't fly in multiple regiments, let along divisions. At most he can fly in about a regiment and air support in the next few weeks unless he uses ALL of his transport. Doubt that as he has other places to drop soon I'm sure.

If you're 8-10 days out with troops and can get into some of that +3 on all sides of his drop, I thikn you'll be okay from that. He wants you to evac Sian. I say no. Just build up around his incursion as your troops move back. As long as you own the hexes, get in there first, he has to choose which to go for and you can reinforce. With SL he can't move 200k men up the road to Ankang.

Start moving one medium sized Corps into each of those two hexes behind Sian. It's a good line anyway, pretty similar to where I've ended up of my own choice except a few hexes back on the Angkang road. You might want to own all of the hexes to the other side as well, but traversing all of those woods into the central plains will not leave him much supply and will take forever. Probably just need to get the end of that yellow road.

Run and DIG!!!

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Post #: 155
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 10:01:18 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

He cant sweep his own base - not possible with game engine. However your LRCAPing fighters will probably be drawn into any sweep going for Sian...


Ah, of course. My bad.


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Ok. Not ideal with the Ankang drop, but that is tough territory, and he can't fly in multiple regiments, let along divisions. At most he can fly in about a regiment and air support in the next few weeks unless he uses ALL of his transport. Doubt that as he has other places to drop soon I'm sure.

If you're 8-10 days out with troops and can get into some of that +3 on all sides of his drop, I thikn you'll be okay from that. He wants you to evac Sian. I say no. Just build up around his incursion as your troops move back. As long as you own the hexes, get in there first, he has to choose which to go for and you can reinforce. With SL he can't move 200k men up the road to Ankang.

Start moving one medium sized Corps into each of those two hexes behind Sian. It's a good line anyway, pretty similar to where I've ended up of my own choice except a few hexes back on the Angkang road. You might want to own all of the hexes to the other side as well, but traversing all of those woods into the central plains will not leave him much supply and will take forever. Probably just need to get the end of that yellow road.

Run and DIG!!!


Thanks Erik. I´ll try to stay calm. But god I HATE China. Just looking at it makes me miserable!

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Post #: 156
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 10:46:16 AM   
JocMeister

 

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December 12th - 41 UPDATE
______________________________________________________________________________

Small but significant update now that I´ve seen the turn. The rail to Singers are now cut. 1 BDE, 1 AA unit and BF will be destroyed next turn as they are stuck in STRAT mode.

I have only 300ish AV in Singers which will fall possibly in the first attack. Ouch.

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Post #: 157
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 5:04:17 PM   
JocMeister

 

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December 13th - 41
______________________________________________________________________________

Multiple invasions this turn.

------------------------
Malaya
------------------------

The lone Tank RGT does not attack at Johorubarhu for which I´m greateful. Allied forces have turned around and is gathering in central Malaya.

The Japanese land unhindered at Palembang. Dutch air force make an appearance but fail to score any hits. Some consolation at least...

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 93 encounters mine field at Palembang (48,91)

Japanese Ships
CA Atago, Mine hits 1
CA Takao, Mine hits 1


The base will fall in the first attack I´m certain.

quote:

Ground combat at Palembang (48,91)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 985 troops, 6 guns, 4 vehicles, Assault Value = 24

Defending force 5093 troops, 50 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 128

Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
So.Sumatra Garrison Battalion
Riouw KNIL Bn /1
Palembang ML Base Force


Defending units:
I./143rd Infantry Battalion
II./143rd Infantry Battalion
III./143rd Infantry Battalion
7th Field Construction Battalion
32nd Field AA Battalion



I´ll try to fly in something more for next turn but is severely lacking in lift capacity. Forts is at 1.00.

Small KB is sitting just SE of Palembang while Big KB is slightly NE of Soerabaja. The continue to cause havoc in the area sinking earlier crippled ships fleeing. For some reason a British TF reacted or moved towards Sumatra (despite a react 0 setting) and got within KB range. All 4 DDs were promptly sunk.

I´ve tried striking out with the MTBs but no luck so far.

------------------------
Philippines
------------------------

Finally the landing comes at Lingayan. Almost 1000 AV. The base is lost on the first day. These forces were identified.

quote:

Assaulting units:
21st Ind Engineer Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
48th Recon Regiment
3rd Ind Engineer Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
16th Recon Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
Kanno
48th Engineer Regiment
Tanaka
20th Infantry Regiment
47th Infantry Rgt /1
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Construction Battalion
56th Const Co
28th JAAF AF Bn
48th Field Artillery Regiment
14th Army
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Field Construction Battalion
40th JAAF AF Bn


I´m not sure that is enough to secure Luzon alone. Then again he now has air superiority. The PI "air force" at least strike at the landing.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Lingayen at 79,75

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 13

Allied aircraft losses
P-35A: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Shinyubari Maru
xAK Yasuteru Maru, Shell hits 2, Bomb hits 3, on fire
xAK Koyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
xAK Yamagiku Maru, Shell hits 2, Bomb hits 1
xAK Kamoi Maru


quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Lingayen at 79,75

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 12

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Karachi Maru, Bomb hits 1
xAK Siraha Maru, Shell hits 1, Bomb hits 2
xAK Sugiyama Maru, Bomb hits 1


Allied forces are waiting at Clark and Manila. I think I will make a stand at Clark instead of the usual Manila one. With Clark in allied hands Bataan is safe so we won´t have to deal with any Naval bombardments. Clark is also a x3 hex.

Houston and Boise are attacked by Mavises just outside Jessleton. Crap. I had hoped to sneak them into the South China Sea. Now I have to turn back. I´m slowly getting boxed in and fuel is starting to become a worry.

------------------------
New Guinea
------------------------

Landings at Wewak and Aitape.

------------------------
CENTPAC
------------------------

Subs have left PH. Won´t be using the base anyway but now I can start thinking about sending the BBs to the WC. No doubt the subs will head there though.

Ent/Lex hide in a storm and is undetected this turn. I´ll use the opportunity to get lost.

------------------------
China
------------------------

Sian is now being flanked from both East and West. I just don´t have enough forces in the area to stop much. I´m trying to scrape together anything I can but there isn´t much around that can make it to the defendable terrain in time.

Here is a screen.




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Post #: 158
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 5:08:21 PM   
EHansen


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RE moving the BBs. I move them to Hilo first and more to the East and then North to the WC around SD or LA area. Then up the coast to Alameda or Seattle, etc.

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Post #: 159
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 5:20:42 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Jocke, I think what is happening to you is an illustration of something that needs to be said. Heretical to JFBs I suspect, but it needs to be said.

Giving the Japanese player a non-historical start is the MOST advantageous give in the pre-game set-up. I would even venture to say it is more of a give than the Allies getting non-dud torpedoes. At minimum it ought not be given without a give-back of commensurate value i.e. non-dud torpedoes.

The game is VP-balanced on a presumption that PH is attacked. This puts the KB weeks away from the general bug-out in the west, and both gives the Allies valuable ships to be used in the balance of 1942 in the "hard months", as well as prevent Japan from reaping hundreds or thousands of VPs at literally no risk to themselves.

Hindsight tells JFBs that the PH strike is a poor ROI. The carriers aren't there, a fact RL IJN officers did not know but JFBs do with 100% certainty. Also, five years of game life have shown overwhelmingly that the pre-war USN BBs are as much OOB liabilities as useful. And a typical game-PH-strike sinks 2-3 with the others simply being a shipyard clog, but not a VP well for Japan.

As you're seeing, a MKB, combined with a split KB (it fears nothing in the DEI in December), gives three invulnerable naval axes able to plug the bug-out routes and simply harvest the Allies, after crippling the USN submarine force in the west for months at Manila. The Mersing move makes Rangoon fall weeks or months early, which opens the Irrawaddy Valley to invasion that much earlier too, before PPs can accumulate enough to get any Indian help into Burma. And so forth.

Japan ignoring the eastern half of the map tilts history on its head. Non-historical start as an option is fine if the players agree, and especially if the Japan player is of lower skill than the Allied. It's a huge crutch for a lower-ability Japan player. In the hands of a Mr. Kane? You gave away the store.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/8/2014 6:23:13 PM >


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RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 5:49:45 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Jocke, I think what is happening to you is an illustration of something that needs to be said. Heretical to JFBs I suspect, but it needs to be said.

Giving the Japanese player a non-historical start is the MOST advantageous give in the pre-game set-up. I would even venture to say it is more of a give than the Allies getting non-dud torpedoes. At minimum it ought not be given without a give-back of commensurate value i.e. non-dud torpedoes.

The game is VP-balanced on a presumption that PH is attacked. This puts the KB weeks away from the general bug-out in the west, and both gives the Allies valuable ships to be used in the balance of 1942 in the "hard months", as well as prevent Japan from reaping hundreds or thousands of VPs at literally no risk to themselves.

Hindsight tells JFBs that the PH strike is a poor ROI. The carriers aren't there, a fact RL IJN officers did not know but JFBs do with 100% certainty. Also, five years of game life have shown overwhelmingly that the pre-war USN BBs are as much OOB liabilities as useful. And a typical game-PH-strike sinks 2-3 with the others simply being a shipyard clog, but not a VP well for Japan.

As you're seeing, a MKB, combined with a split KB (it fears nothing in the DEI in December), gives three invulnerable naval axes able to plug the bug-out routes and simply harvest the Allies, after crippling the USN submarine force in the west for months at Manila. The Mersing move makes Rangoon fall weeks or months early, which opens the Irrawaddy Valley to invasion that much earlier too, before PPs can accumulate enough to get any Indian help into Burma. And so forth.

Japan ignoring the eastern half of the map tilts history on its head. Non-historical start as an option is fine if the players agree, and especially if the Japan player is of lower skill than the Allied. It's a huge crutch for a lower-ability Japan player. In the hands of a Mr. Kane? You gave away the store.


Hey Bull.

Glad someone shares my view on the old battlewagons!

Yeah, I kind of knew I would be in deep dodo from the get go. But I wanted a player that could push me to the max so I was very happy to get to play him.

I knew he would do a Mersing and I knew he wouldn´t do a PH. I think he is a lot like you. He doesn´t care about history this and history that. He plays for the VPs and will use the engine and assets in the most efficient way possible. I asked for that kind of game because I think that is best way to play. And I got what I asked for. Now I just need to try and survive that AV!

I think many readers fail to realize just how real the threat of AV is at this point. Mersing allows him to fast forward at least a month. Having the full KB in the DEI will be him at least another month. That is an enormous advantage due to the set and slow allied buildup. I don´t think about 43 and my position then. If I had played a less skilled player I would but right now my ONLY focus has to be to avoid AV. I would say its 60/40 in his favor for AV right now. I need him to make a mistake somewhere but I´ll doubt that will happen.

But I can´t lose you know... He is the perfect opponent to prove my mantra that a skilled Japanese player doesn´t need PDU ON (which many Japanese players claim). If he AVs my ass I will still have won! Or people will just claim I suck of course! Hmm...



< Message edited by JocMeister -- 6/8/2014 6:51:13 PM >

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Post #: 161
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 5:56:52 PM   
Erkki


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Jocke, I think what is happening to you is an illustration of something that needs to be said. Heretical to JFBs I suspect, but it needs to be said.

Giving the Japanese player a non-historical start is the MOST advantageous give in the pre-game set-up. I would even venture to say it is more of a give than the Allies getting non-dud torpedoes. At minimum it ought not be given without a give-back of commensurate value i.e. non-dud torpedoes.

The game is VP-balanced on a presumption that PH is attacked. This puts the KB weeks away from the general bug-out in the west, and both gives the Allies valuable ships to be used in the balance of 1942 in the "hard months", as well as prevent Japan from reaping hundreds or thousands of VPs at literally no risk to themselves.

Hindsight tells JFBs that the PH strike is a poor ROI. The carriers aren't there, a fact RL IJN officers did not know but JFBs do with 100% certainty. Also, five years of game life have shown overwhelmingly that the pre-war USN BBs are as much OOB liabilities as useful. And a typical game-PH-strike sinks 2-3 with the others simply being a shipyard clog, but not a VP well for Japan.

As you're seeing, a MKB, combined with a split KB (it fears nothing in the DEI in December), gives three invulnerable naval axes able to plug the bug-out routes and simply harvest the Allies, after crippling the USN submarine force in the west for months at Manila. The Mersing move makes Rangoon fall weeks or months early, which opens the Irrawaddy Valley to invasion that much earlier too, before PPs can accumulate enough to get any Indian help into Burma. And so forth.

Japan ignoring the eastern half of the map tilts history on its head. Non-historical start as an option is fine if the players agree, and especially if the Japan player is of lower skill than the Allied. It's a huge crutch for a lower-ability Japan player. In the hands of a Mr. Kane? You gave away the store.


How exactly can Japan score more VPs if the KB is in the DEI? If Japan hits Manila most of the valuable stuff from DEI and Singapore should be able to get away easily and the subs die on the 7th so you dont need to worry about them any more. Do you think Dutch PGs and xAKLs are as valuable as BBs? DEI also has the nasty Dutch subs - its the Pearl attack that presents no threat to KB. Maybe Japan can score some VPs if it manages to catch a good part of the shipping, but then again VPs gained from those ships hardly mean anything as they arent very useful. Losing a BB or a submarine's worth of VPs hurts the Allies much more than a mass of xAKLs and machine-gun-armed HDMLs worth the same points.

How is the game "VP-balanced"? And what if you dont give a hoot about them? They mean nothing. I mean, why in the earth should Allied player be rewarded with points for, say, building bases far behind the lines that will never be used with restricted units and endless supply? Or who real world commander would stop building ships or flying planes because "they are VPs for the enemy"? How can any individual bases operational or strategic value even measured by points? You can count VPs for holding bases and destroying units, but who counts the iniative, damaged units, how well the logistics are organized, gives extra VPs for bases within B-17 range of Palembang or measures player morale among the bazillion other things?

Japanese having more units or flexibility than historically or not, VPs or not, most Allied players still dont seem to have much trouble winning the war in historical schedule or ahead of it. As someone noted, you dont need to write letters to fallen pixeltruppens' homes.

With appropriate gentlemen's agreements in effect the game IMHO is a pretty good wargame and operational simulation of the real war. And very addictive. I suggest you too stop worrying about the VPs and autovictories and whatnot and maybe try playing as Japan a bit. This game simply takes too long to play through to be a game of points. The journey is more important than the (in this case inevitable) outcome.

Back on topic: I dont think unhistorical first turn is the worst option for the Allies even if they cant give orders outside of China for the 7th. Unrealistic R&D probably is.

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RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:09:08 PM   
Cribtop


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This is a fascinating match to watch. I will be intrigued to see Mr. Kane's play with PDU Off as well. If you avoid AV (as you say, a big if), then he will have more difficulty stopping you than he did stopping GreyJoy - that's when PDU Off will tell, IMHO. It will be a great match either way.

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RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:18:05 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

This is a fascinating match to watch. I will be intrigued to see Mr. Kane's play with PDU Off as well. If you avoid AV (as you say, a big if), then he will have more difficulty stopping you than he did stopping GreyJoy - that's when PDU Off will tell, IMHO. It will be a great match either way.


Indeed. He will have some help from a set maximum altitude at 33k that will limit the Allied planes a lot. Most of them have higher max ceiling the the Japanese fighters. At least in stock they have. So he can at least match his CAP with allied sweeps.

But the biggest difference is that we have no HR against strategic bombing as he had in his game vs. GJ. That will change a lot. If he fails AV in 42/43 he must keep me away from the DEI oil and the HI long enough to avoid an allied AV in 45. But thats far into the future and a big if.

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Post #: 164
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:19:03 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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I'm in a game with Lokasenna where I agreed to very favorable starting variables for Japan. I agreed; I deal. And, he did a PH strike, and did not do a Mersing. Nevertheless, I am on my heels in the autumn of 1942 and am, right now by my best estimates, playing for a draw. He is not a Japan player that needed pre-game set-up help.

The PDU Off variable we do not have in our game. It's an interesting wrinkle, and I have not come to any conclusion which side is helped, if either. It may be a question of eras, with favor shifting back and forth.

But for you, with Manila whacked (PLEASE start caring about subs! ) and Singers down, by my standards, more than a month early, you ARE in danger of AV. If not on 1/1/43 then by the summer of 1943.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/8/2014 7:20:09 PM >


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RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:20:25 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Unwelcome visitors
______________________________________________________________________________

Found these guys by accident when I miss clicked the map...




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RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:24:43 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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As you are a "play the journey" player and not someone playing the game as designed, there's little point in our discussing this issue. I do recommend you take a look at the ships in port alone in the DEI, PI, and Malaysia on Turn 1 and their cumulative VPs. They are not all, or even mostly, xAKLs and harbor defense craft.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/8/2014 7:28:38 PM >


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RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:34:52 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I'm in a game with Lokasenna where I agreed to very favorable starting variables for Japan. I agreed; I deal. And, he did a PH strike, and did not do a Mersing. Nevertheless, I am on my heels in the autumn of 1942 and am, right now by my best estimates, playing for a draw. He is not a Japan player that needed pre-game set-up help.

The PDU Off variable we do not have in our game. It's an interesting wrinkle, and I have not come to any conclusion which side is helped, if either. It may be a question of eras, with favor shifting back and forth.

But for you, with Manila whacked (PLEASE start caring about subs! ) and Singers down, by my standards, more than a month early, you ARE in danger of AV. If not on 1/1/43 then by the summer of 1943.


I think China will be the key for me. If I can hold off a total collapse in 42 I might just make it. But I would say there is little hope for that. As I said in the earlier post I need him to make a mistake somewhere. Or I need to make him make a mistake. A sunk troop convoy, a landing that juuust fails. Something little that can get the snowball rolling. But in all honestly I´m expecting AV. If I can avoid it I will be quite surprised.

Haha, I promise I will take better care of the subs. Tom is as meticulous as Erik was so I won´t try convoy raiding under Jap LBA this time.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 168
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 6:49:21 PM   
Erkki


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JocMeister: yeah, those are 2 AMCs. What did you spot them with? They usually get to sail all the way to Horn Island undetected, where they'll be welcoming the DEI refugees.

Bullwinkle: so? The KB cant attack them from the PI, it has limited number of planes to attack with daily and so most of the shipping with endurance can get away even if KB gives chase. If you really want to game the game, just send them in 1-ship TFs so the KB is unlikely to launch strikes in the first place and SAGs burn their ops points after a couple of ships sunk: problem solved and precious VPs get saved. WitPAE is marketed as "most realistic and engrossing WWII Pacific theatre game" and VPs skewing commander decisions is hardly realistic.

Though ultimately game should be played the way each player enjoys it the most, as that can be done by playing different scenarios, toggling the preferences and realism options and setting HRs and agreements. I wont count VPs because they to me dont represent anything, but I do have other goals.

Good luck Jocke.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 169
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 7:24:05 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 10285
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Let your USN subs go as sinkers in 1942. Make them scouts. They can fill in quite a bit for the awful lack of Allied search assets.

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Post #: 170
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 7:38:16 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Let your USN subs go as sinkers in 1942. Make them scouts. They can fill in quite a bit for the awful lack of Allied search assets.


+1

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Post #: 171
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 8:21:06 PM   
Crackaces


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Besides giving the IJ a cheap thrill when the Akagi shows up in crosshairs :)

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Post #: 172
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 9:16:54 PM   
Encircled


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Jocke

Find the Quiotxe v Cannonfodder AAR

I think Quiotxe got AV as Japan as soon as it was possible.

It might give some useful tip on what not to do at the very least (though the general feel of the AAR suggests that there was very little CF could do about it).

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Post #: 173
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/8/2014 9:53:05 PM   
JeffK


Posts: 5837
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From: Planning the end of the world, well the next 12 mo
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Those are the 2 AMC that raid Bora Bora/Tahiti sometimes.

I like to view the strategic map each turn to look for any unexpected red dots.

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Post #: 174
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/9/2014 3:05:39 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 5922
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Let your USN subs go as sinkers in 1942. Make them scouts. They can fill in quite a bit for the awful lack of Allied search assets.



quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Let your USN subs go as sinkers in 1942. Make them scouts. They can fill in quite a bit for the awful lack of Allied search assets.


+1


I hate your scout subs! It's like "good, not sighted this turn..." and then next turn a dud torpedo while you see everything in the convoy. On the other hand, the sub recon that the USN did during the war isn't modeled at all, so...


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Those are the 2 AMC that raid Bora Bora/Tahiti sometimes.

I like to view the strategic map each turn to look for any unexpected red dots.


I check for green every turn ;). I like using those AMCs to raid any convoys going Pearl-SoPac, sometimes also hitting ports. 6" guns and torpedoes sinks xAKs pretty good.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I'm in a game with Lokasenna where I agreed to very favorable starting variables for Japan. I agreed; I deal. And, he did a PH strike, and did not do a Mersing. Nevertheless, I am on my heels in the autumn of 1942 and am, right now by my best estimates, playing for a draw. He is not a Japan player that needed pre-game set-up help.


Playing you was intimidating! I don't think I have the chops to do a Mersing. Too much can go wrong. If I were doing what MrK did here, I'd send Shokaku/Zuikaku near Singapore. Akagi/Kaga/Hiryu/Soryu would strike Manila. MKB would meet up south of Davao. All would then go skirt the perimeter, keeping the Allies bottled up in Java as well as possible. As you say, KB1/KB2/MKB is pretty well invincible (other than sub attacks) against what the Allies have in the SRA.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 175
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/9/2014 4:43:49 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki


How exactly can Japan score more VPs if the KB is in the DEI? If Japan hits Manila most of the valuable stuff from DEI and Singapore should be able to get away easily and the subs die on the 7th so you dont need to worry about them any more. Do you think Dutch PGs and xAKLs are as valuable as BBs? DEI also has the nasty Dutch subs - its the Pearl attack that presents no threat to KB. Maybe Japan can score some VPs if it manages to catch a good part of the shipping, but then again VPs gained from those ships hardly mean anything as they arent very useful. Losing a BB or a submarine's worth of VPs hurts the Allies much more than a mass of xAKLs and machine-gun-armed HDMLs worth the same points.

How is the game "VP-balanced"? And what if you dont give a hoot about them? They mean nothing. I mean, why in the earth should Allied player be rewarded with points for, say, building bases far behind the lines that will never be used with restricted units and endless supply? Or who real world commander would stop building ships or flying planes because "they are VPs for the enemy"? How can any individual bases operational or strategic value even measured by points? You can count VPs for holding bases and destroying units, but who counts the iniative, damaged units, how well the logistics are organized, gives extra VPs for bases within B-17 range of Palembang or measures player morale among the bazillion other things?

Japanese having more units or flexibility than historically or not, VPs or not, most Allied players still dont seem to have much trouble winning the war in historical schedule or ahead of it. As someone noted, you dont need to write letters to fallen pixeltruppens' homes.

With appropriate gentlemen's agreements in effect the game IMHO is a pretty good wargame and operational simulation of the real war. And very addictive. I suggest you too stop worrying about the VPs and autovictories and whatnot and maybe try playing as Japan a bit. This game simply takes too long to play through to be a game of points. The journey is more important than the (in this case inevitable) outcome.

Back on topic: I dont think unhistorical first turn is the worst option for the Allies even if they cant give orders outside of China for the 7th. Unrealistic R&D probably is.


PPs is the only way to capture the Homefront morale. The requirements of achieving a Japanese auto victory on 1 January 1943 (later in the year and certainly on 1 January 1944 are much more likely dates) is very challenging, still if they do pull it off in the game it represents a far greater military achievement than they came anywhere close to historically. Military disaster after military disaster would have sapped the morale of the Allied nations. Do not make the mistake of thinking only America counted.

As to things like awarding PPs for CONUS base building, that is consistent with it being an abstraction and the difficulty, but not impossibility, Japan should face in achieving an auto victory.

Alfred

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 176
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/9/2014 1:21:44 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 719
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From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Hmm, speaking of suicide. Wonder when I should tell Maria I picked up a new PBEM?


About 10 seconds before she finds out by any other means ?

Thats a bit of an oopsie..

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 177
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/9/2014 3:32:00 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Hmm, speaking of suicide. Wonder when I should tell Maria I picked up a new PBEM?


About 10 seconds before she finds out by any other means ?

Thats a bit of an oopsie..


That actually sounds like a really good idea...as long as I can keep her from finding out at all!

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Post #: 178
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/9/2014 5:02:33 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 7995
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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December 14th - 41
______________________________________________________________________________

I´ve forgotten how depressing the early game can be as the allies!

------------------------
Malaya
------------------------

Japanese finally try an deliberate attack. My units are still in start mode but manages to hold on. They will be crushed next turn though.

quote:

Ground combat at Johore Bahru (50,83)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 1236 troops, 77 guns, 112 vehicles, Assault Value = 535

Defending force 5065 troops, 23 guns, 66 vehicles, Assault Value = 110

Japanese adjusted assault: 64

Allied adjusted defense: 35

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Allied ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled


------------------------
DEI
------------------------

Sigh...Big KB passes by Java and ends up south of Denpassar. In a series of strikes all the remaining ships from Java are sunk. Small KB is in the Java sea. The realization that I will have to pull back what is left is a sour one. I can do nothing to help Java from the sea. The island is lost and there will be no ships coming or going. In a series of swift moves with the KB Tom has managed to wipe out 85% of the Java merchants and tankers plus about 50% of the warships.

A stark contrast to my last PBEM to say the least.

Palembang is lost this turn. Man, he moves so FAST.

------------------------
Philippines
------------------------

The slaughter continues here and the last remaining ships is hunted down just east of the Bonins. A 3 ship TF still lives between Bonins and the HI but with a 5/5 DL it will be sunk tomorrow but some of the roving TFs. That will make the grand total of ships able to flee Manila: 0. Depressing to say the least!

------------------------
Houston/Boise
------------------------

A full speed dash fails to shake off the pursuers. A TF centered around Haruna catches them near Balabac.

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 70,85, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 1
DD Shinonome, Shell hits 1
DD Shirakumo
DD Murakumo


Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 3
CL Boise


After this tussle we manage to shake them off and arrive at Tarakan to refuel. We will have to depart with only 40% ammo though. Now the question is where we will move. In the North is Haruna, to the South and East are CA TFs with 4 CAs each. I think this might be the end of Boise and Houston.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 179
RE: Return of the Sheep! - 6/9/2014 5:43:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 10285
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
RE Houston/Boise:

Opinions will differ, but to me, given the losses to date and his plugs in every choke point, the objective is to get them out of the theater to fight another day. There are no great options, looking at your screenie. But . . .

The Makassar Strait has essentially two plugs, one 4 CA close, and after/if you clear Balikpapan more nastiness to the south, and that only gets you to Darwin, which isn't home free. Going north around Borneo to Singers is already a non-starter even if there wasn't a BB plug there.

I'd try east for Pearl. Go two hexes south of Jolo until you get near the PI coast, then switch to Coastal mode, run around to Davao, and then flee east at Full. Screw the fuel.

Once out of air search range eastbound downshift to Mission and waypoint NE to about the height of French Frigate Shoals or even a bit more north. Get your two fastest sAKs at Pearl (or xAPs, or AMCs, whatever you have.) Put them in an Escort TF and send them to meet and merge and refuel Houston/Boise, which you also on this turn shift to an Escort TF tag. Don't escort these ships; just let them fly out into the open blue. If they're sunk send two more. But they probably will be OK due to their speed if they clear the inner sub cordon around PH.

Put the cruisers' float planes on ASW obviously.

No sure thing, and the 4 CAs to the immediate east probably get them, but it's a chance.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/9/2014 6:46:02 PM >


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