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RE: Few basic questions - 6/4/2014 5:30:31 PM   
Courtenay


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And you can see my AAR for what happens when a Spanish strategy goes completely wrong.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/5/2014 12:37:56 AM   
Extraneous

 

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For the Allies (note Germany borders Yugoslavia)...

Yugoslavia
The Commonwealth can declare that Yugoslavia is aligning with it during any Allied declaration of war step if Yugoslavia is neutral and there are a total of 4 or more Commonwealth corps in any adjacent countries.

France can declare that Yugoslavia is aligning with it during any Allied declaration of war step if Yugoslavia is neutral and there are a total of 4 or more French corps in any adjacent countries.



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RE: Few basic questions - 6/5/2014 4:45:04 AM   
Ur_Vile_WEdge

 

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I was about to 'correct' you, but then I re-read the rules and saw that Austria is considered part of the German home country.

Still, I've seen several games where the Allies align Yugo. I don't think I've ever seen one where they aligned Yugo via getting 4 corps in Germany. Usually it's Greece and/or Albania, and once Italy.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/5/2014 5:09:27 PM   
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I've seen it. Germany left open the 2 southern hexes along the Rhine in 1939, thinking the Allies would not risk the production bump for crossing the border. France moved 4 corps in, aligned Yugo, then moved back across the border.

Lesson learned.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/5/2014 9:03:41 PM   
Cohen

 

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Hmm when a "peace step" happens?
As per if the Russians wants Bessarabia, Romania denies - they get to war immediately.
When Germany can enforce peace precisely - assuming that no Russian unit made it past Bessarabia and in Romania proper then.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/6/2014 1:58:04 AM   
Cohen

 

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Np sorted it - it's in the end of turn phase, which means Romania cannot virtually refuse to surrender Bessarabia or in 2 impulses Soviets place a unit in Romania proper, and peace cannot be enforced and then Soviets simply conquer Romania and cut the oil supply to Axis.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/6/2014 4:30:26 PM   
Centuur


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It's not that simple for the USSR. Germany can put units in Rumania when it is aligned to the country (through an aligned Hungary) to make things more difficult for the USSR. And if the USSR isn't at war with Japan or Italy, they are confined to combined impulses, which they have to use to move the Chinese Communist units too. And with only 5 units to move each impulse, that makes conquering Rumania difficult.

But when you play with the oil rules, it's usually not a good idea to refuse the claim. The USSR airforce can strat bomb those resources in the surprise impulse and do it again the turn after that when they reorganise the big planes...

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/6/2014 8:32:05 PM   
Cohen

 

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Well usually Hungary is not aligned yet when Soviets demand Bessarabia. (What prevents them to do so in Turn1 already? It will shrink 1 resource they send to Germany already.)
So pratically Romania is on its own without possibility of Germans to intervene.

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Post #: 38
RE: Few basic questions - 6/6/2014 8:50:43 PM   
Cohen

 

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Adding - just to see if I understand well this kind of supply rule.

A unit cannot trace to a Railroad in order to get supply, it needs to trace to a HQ first or a Conquered Minor Capital, or a Home Country City.
So for example, without a HQ in proximity, a German land unit or even naval units in Brest / Cherbourg would be out of Supply or they need a Convoy in North Sea if playing with the Optional Rule (which if so would probably be sunk by the Royal Navy pretty quickly).
Or even in Le Havre in bad weather turns (as it is 3 hexes from Paris).

If I got this straight, how can Germany defend the shores with Out of Supply units unless a HQ is on and about (and they look to be quite scarce in HQ numbers)

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/6/2014 9:00:03 PM   
Ur_Vile_WEdge

 

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You have the supply rules essentially correct.

But a face up out of supply unit still defends at full strength. Still, you often will need an HQ in France, if nothing else to coordinate the submarines for the battle of the Atlantic. Usually Badoglio and/or Leeb get that job.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 12:16:01 AM   
Cohen

 

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Hmm. I know face up supplied units are full strenght. I am just prone to the belief they're ripe to be bombed and then easily overran.
Given I am still "replaying" pratically turn 1 to master the optimization of moves (and I am far from such!)

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 10:36:27 AM   
Centuur


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You are right in your observations. You need HQ's in France before the Allied invasion takes place to get the beaches supplied.

On the Rumanian issue, you are missing something:

If Rumania denies the claim, Hungary can be aligned to Germany in the next Axis impulse, so the Germans can rail troops to Rumania.

To align Hungary to the Axis cause in the first place (apart from a claim of Bessarabia), Germany needs to be at war with Yugoslavia.
That is a gambit you see sometimes however. Start a war against Yugoslavia in the third impulse of the game and align Rumania immediately and Hungary the fifth impulse of the game. That ends any Bessarabia gambits by the USSR. However, such a move might upset the US, since in 1939 average chit value drawn is higher than in 1940 (meaning the US might enter the war earlier than expected...)





< Message edited by Centuur -- 6/7/2014 11:46:16 AM >


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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 11:45:56 AM   
Extraneous

 

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If the USSR hasn't claimed or was unable to claim Eastern Poland you can rail through Poland.



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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 3:01:57 PM   
paulderynck


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Often seen the Mountain Corps and an ATR in Czechoslovakia or near the southern end of the Partition Line in Poland as well, so that at least one of the "Peacekeepers" that respond can be face-up.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 4:36:49 PM   
Cohen

 

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It looks quite amazing on how Poland can hold grounds for the turn with some bad rolls for Germans ... I was trying to emulate the gambit of the Netherlands on Turn1 and to keep some Luftwaffe on the Westfront besides the fighters ... and when you get 10 Corps disorganized in 1 attack (at Lodz!) after your planes miss the Disrupting surprise run ...

Anyhow - I've read of the internation of the poland planes. How is that triggered precisely?

Also - Norway. Does it make any sense to invade it for the Axis?

Editing in - What's the "Sentry" option naval units have?

< Message edited by Cohen -- 6/7/2014 6:30:53 PM >

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 5:38:15 PM   
Centuur


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Wel, you don't have to kill the Poles outright in the first turn if you get that kind of bad luck. Simply take the resources and do the rest next turn. That doesn't hurt the German economy a lot.

The internment of Polish planes is done by rebasing them to a neutral country (f.e. Lithuania).

Norway isn't that important in WiF. It lacks incentive for the Axis to invade, because of the (historically correct) huge number of convoys and the other naval units (especially the TRS) which will escape to the CW. Norway became caught in a political web of intrigue in 1940, which caused the major powers to react. For the CW to invade the country is also diffficult, because of the fact that the Germans can put units in Oslo, without having to enter the North Sea. In a strategic game, it's difficult to make rules for the circumstances in which every neutral minor country was different.

For example, would the Netherlands have joined the oil embargo, if it remained neutral during WW II? I don't think so, because the Dutch would become a "cash and carry" for the warring factions (just as they were during WW I. A lot of German gold was spend in the Netherlands during that war, buying all kind of supplies as food, ammunition and planes)...

Would Spain become an Axis ally if the Allies decided to take out Portugal in 1940 or 1941? I believe they would. Would they join the Allied side in 1944 if the US and the CW would have taken out Portugal in that year? I think they would have done so. Franco was interested in only one thing. That was to stay on as leader of Spain, whatever happened.

Would Belgium become an Axis ally if the Germans would have entered only the Netherland (and promised to give Belgium the land around the approaches of the port of Antwerp? I think they would have been, since about 15 years earlier, there was almost a war between the Netherlands and Belgium about that chunk of land...

Yugoslavia is another issue. They were about to join the Axis side, when a pro CW coup was staged. Imagine the government to act a little faster...

All examples of individual countries having their own political incentives to join or not to join the war. It's difficult to put all those different things into a board game...


< Message edited by Centuur -- 6/7/2014 6:39:03 PM >


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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 5:53:41 PM   
Cohen

 

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I am aware of historical implications. In many other games "Norway" is in fact a sort of necessity (to be either Neutral or Axis controlled) due to the Swedish Iron Ore.
I was just wondering what is the case if WiF, as it appears it harvest hardly any benefit. It has just a grand total of 1 Resource which is a rather meager benefit (But I do not know how eager for resources the Eu-Axis factories can turn later in the game).
That would add an amount of forces to spare to protect that single Resource, oversea as well.
And here come another question then. I understood the concept of "Notional" units - virtual units which can be pratically mines preventing a landing, small scale garrisons, etcetera. If the Notional is out of Supply, it's non relevant (if I got that straight).
But the mechanics of it and how it fights eludes me.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 5:56:27 PM   
Courtenay


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WiF does many things well. Modeling random political events is emphatically not one of them. If one wants a game that focuses on that aspect of the war, then Krieg (or one of its successors) is the way to go.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/7/2014 6:00:05 PM   
Cohen

 

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I own Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg, Eurofront (West and East), Blocks in the East and West, and Europe Engulfed.
Hmm probably forgetting some other titles.
Father initiated me at tabletop gaming when I was six (I was just rolling dices then and looking him and his friends playing Napoleon Last Battles).

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 5:36:35 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen

And here come another question then. I understood the concept of "Notional" units - virtual units which can be pratically mines preventing a landing, small scale garrisons, etcetera. If the Notional is out of Supply, it's non relevant (if I got that straight).
But the mechanics of it and how it fights eludes me.

The notional is worth one normally. If you paradrop and/or invade an enemy controlled hex, it shows up. When it does, the attacker gets a +1 to his die roll (either 1D10 or 2D10). It can be there even if other defending units are there and fully stacked on the hex. In such a case, the defender is allowed to "decline" its presence (because the +1 to the attacker will be worse for him than losing one defense factor).

Another time you might decline it as a defender is if the enemy paradrops onto a hex that is also adjacent to his units attacking overland, especially if they are Armor/Mech that can breakthrough. If you decline the notional in this case, the paratroop unit lands for free but no other enemy units can advance. On your impulse you may be able to counterattack the para.

The notional value of one can be modified as follows (all cumulative):
+1 if in a city
+1 if in a major power home country
+1 if in a friendly units ZoC (even a JP ZoC can give an Italian notional a +1, cooperation doesn't matter)
+x where x is due to invaders from sea boxes that are too low ("too low" a Box number depends on weather as well)
-1 if it is isolated (i.e. can't trace a supply path of unlimited distance)
-1 if it is surprised

Notionals get terrain benefits, FREX Genoa - by itself - defends with a combat value of 6. (1+1+1 doubled)

Islands are especially vulnerable if they have no supply source because if put out of supply you can invade for free against a zero notional, as long as you come from a high enough box. This also can cause the loss of a lot of islands with a well-coordinated surprise impulse, even if they are in supply.

And the trickiest rule - the notional is the nationality of the unit in the hex. In one recent game my opponent had an OOS JP convoy in the port in Italian-controlled British Somalia. I got to invade that hex for free because the unit in it was Japanese, so the hex had a JP notional that was OOS and thus worth zero. (He couldn't ZoC the hex in time.)




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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 12:44:47 PM   
Extraneous

 

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What is so hard about determining the nationality of the notional

quote:

Each hex defends against an invasion with a notional land unit, in addition to any actual land unit in the hex. The notional unit is the same nationality as any major power or minor country with a real unit in the hex (owner’s choice if more than one). If there are no real units, it is the same nationality as the major power or minor country that controls the hex.


quote:

The notional unit is treated like a normal unit for all purposes during combat except that they only have a ZoC into their own hex and are always face-down.


Notional unit 1 combat factor
Not a city
Not in the home country of the major power that controls the hex
Not stacked with a land unit, not in the ZOC of a friendly corps or army
No shore bombardment modifier for each invading unit
-1 if it cannot trace a basic supply path of any length
Not surprised

The Notional unit has a combat factor of zero. Zero doubled because of mountain terrain is still zero.

When the Notional unit has a combat factor of zero the invasion/paradrop is automatically successful (nothing is free).


quote:

ORIGINAL: OPTION 67: 2 DIE 10 LAND COMBAT RESULTS TABLE
Each face-down defending unit +2 (only +1 if the defending unit is a division or a notional unit)




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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 1:03:38 PM   
Cohen

 

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Truth be told, I could as well ask questions here and ditch the manual!
The PDF files in many occasions are very poorly written in the technicalities (at least what I find for) and have informations scattered across 3 different files with mismatching pages and indices.

I'll get back to the Romania case.
I did a test run - Romania declines to secede Bessarabia. Soviets get surprise, bomb Ploesti, bomb frontline units. Their forces move in past the river, leave Cernauti with a disrupted land unit, and assault Kishinev, seizing it with 1 loss per side.
The Germans align Hungary, and begin to ship in units, 2 via rail and the elite mountain corp begins to march across Hungary.
In their next impulse the Soviets move in Romania proper - which means peace cannot be made, ever. It's a Soviet conquest of Romania OR simply there will be an empasse on that front who will syphon more and more German forces as peacekeeper (which if I got it straight, can only passively defend). Part of the next German plan was to send in fighters too (More forces subtracted from France campaign) in order to protect Ploesti.

At the same time, by a look at the map - I understood more why in "technical" terms people favor to align Romania and Yugoslavia more so than the historical allies.
Hungary has a red factory (means Germany can use it still!)
Romania has a blue factory. Yugoslavia has well 2 blue factories (which would produce for the Axis if Yugoslavia is aligned). Therefore just looking at the economical long term benefits, Rumania + Yugoslavia appear the most efficient way (Besides Rumania has 1 HQ and so has Yugo, meanwhile the other 2 minors have none).
On the Minors ... I noticed they have double model of planes at times? It is an "upgrade" of the existing plane? (Like Finland has 2 fighter units with different air to air factors). Or simply they get a 2nd unit?

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 6:08:28 PM   
Extraneous

 

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When did you claim Bessarabia (turn and impulse)?

quote:

Rumania denies the claim
If Rumania denies the USSR’s claim, the USSR must immediately declare war on Rumania.

Germany can enforce a peace between Rumania and the USSR during any peace step if:
• no hex of Rumania, outside of Bessarabia, is Soviet controlled; and
• Germany and the USSR are not at war.


If Rumania and the USSR come to peace:
• Rumania again becomes a neutral minor country;
• the USSR keeps control of Bessarabia provided there is a Soviet land unit anywhere in Bessarabia; and
• Germany can declare Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria aligned with Germany during any later Axis declaration of war steps.




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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 6:10:54 PM   
Cohen

 

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1st turn of the game . Sept / Oct 39, at the 2nd Impulse. (Not sure could have been the 3rd but that seems quite odd, as there were at least 2 more Axis impulses and 2 more Allied impulses after).

The requirement is that "No hex of Rumania, outside of Bessarabia, is soviet controlled".
Thus to make it simple, 2 Impulses suffices for the Soviets to ooze into Romania proper.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 6:36:30 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

What is so hard about determining the nationality of the notional

quote:

Each hex defends against an invasion with a notional land unit, in addition to any actual land unit in the hex. The notional unit is the same nationality as any major power or minor country with a real unit in the hex (owner’s choice if more than one). If there are no real units, it is the same nationality as the major power or minor country that controls the hex.


You misunderstand the meaning of the phrase. The rule is clear, but folks can be tricked by overlooking it - like the example I provided.



< Message edited by paulderynck -- 6/8/2014 7:37:11 PM >


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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 6:43:17 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen

In their next impulse the Soviets move in Romania proper - which means peace cannot be made, ever. It's a Soviet conquest of Romania OR simply there will be an empasse on that front who will syphon more and more German forces as peacekeeper (which if I got it straight, can only passively defend). Part of the next German plan was to send in fighters too (More forces subtracted from France campaign) in order to protect Ploesti.

Actually, the Germans can't intercept raids on Ploesti unless at war with Russia; only the Rumanians can (if they have a fighter).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen

On the Minors ... I noticed they have double model of planes at times? It is an "upgrade" of the existing plane? (Like Finland has 2 fighter units with different air to air factors). Or simply they get a 2nd unit?

They get a second unit. Many of the fighters in the game have very similar model numbers but the later year ones are technologically improved (I guess) and often have better ratings.

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Post #: 56
RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 7:42:30 PM   
Cohen

 

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quote:

Actually, the Germans can't intercept raids on Ploesti unless at war with Russia; only the Rumanians can (if they have a fighter).


Sadly they only get a bomber which would be swiftly shot down by the Soviet Air Forces.
So pratically to have Rumania resist the claim, and go to war unless there is only 1 impulse in the turn ... it means Romania is gone once and for good.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 10:46:38 PM   
paulderynck


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Not really, the Rumanians can sit in the mountains on the first turn of war and then the Germans can rush in Peacekeepers and Russia is not all that strong. Germany is allowed to use its air force to support its own troops (which can be stacked with Rumanians) and its fighters to intercept ground strikes and ground support against German units.

When Russia gives up trying to conquer Rumania the Rumanians can advance with Peacekeeping Germans moving up on top of them and then there is a great chance for the Russian garrison ratio to be broken early since the Russians ZoC'd by Rumanians don't count but the Germans are not in Russian ZoCs until at war with them.

Still not recommended for an Oil game but without playing with Oil, it can be a viable German response. I have seen games where Russia paid heavily for attacking Rumania that early. They really should wait until the Germans are busy with France.

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RE: Few basic questions - 6/8/2014 11:00:27 PM   
Cohen

 

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For the little I saw, to play with Oil is prolly a good way to go - but I am a newb here so it could be far too favoring the Allies.
But I am quite fond of the economical aspect which can force some pauses of operational activity in that department - even if then to disorganize a HQ can be quite costy in terms of oil with many diminishing returns in the department. Ultimately a choice to ponder on wisely when and if to use HQs since they can cost themselves half of a barrel of oil point pratically!

Main problem of "advancing" with Romanians is that they're too weak themselves to do anything - so they can simply hold a line against soviets with the German help, but to make a hole in a Soviet line - that is beyond the wildest of imaginations!

I have not understood well the garrison ratio admittedly - I have seen there are chits for the M/R pact or any peace pact between two Nations but that is not something I've delved into much.
So I assume what you imply here is that the Soviets risk to be DoWed by Germany when all of their starting forces are pushing into Romania and the road to Moscow is ripe and open (but then all the reserves kicks in!)


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RE: Few basic questions - 6/9/2014 2:33:46 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen
1st turn of the game . Sept / Oct 39, at the 2nd Impulse. (Not sure could have been the 3rd but that seems quite odd, as there were at least 2 more Axis impulses and 2 more Allied impulses after).

The requirement is that "No hex of Rumania, outside of Bessarabia, is soviet controlled".
Thus to make it simple, 2 Impulses suffices for the Soviets to ooze into Romania proper.


Ah you claimed Bessarabia on the Second Allied impulse (2x Axis impulses and 2x Allied impulses) that would make it the Forth actual impulse

The Fifth actual impulse (AKA. the Third Axis impulse) is the first chance (but not likely) to end the turn.


Did you take a look at Strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans ?



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