Morvael Please

[GamesaurusRex]

Fix the German morale script in the game to correct the morale decline schedule. Until that is done, nothing can be balanced.

[Lobster]

This game has been out for quite some time and people are still complaining about balance. [:D]

[hfarrish]

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[Wheat]

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

Fix the German morale script in the game to correct the morale decline schedule. Until that is done, nothing can be balanced.

To all my fellow forum denizens, I believe this means GR will NOT be getting to Berlin.

[GamesaurusRex]

Gentlemen... the basic premise of the game is that Germany expected to win the war by 1942. Failing that, Grigsby's take on the war is that German morale deteriorated as the war extended beyond that and Russia proved to be more resilient. This is an accurate view of what happened in the real event. To model this fact, Grigsby wrote a script into the game that dictates the rise of the Russian morale and decline of the German morale over time. The script is broken and German NM remains at 70 from 1943 to 1945, rather than declining as it was designed and intended to do.

Since the relative morale levels of the two sides dictates the CV levels of both sides, none of the other adjustment factors (initial game setting options) can be judged properly, without first knowing what the relative "CV curves" will look like over the total Campaign Game time. The basic game mechanism has to work properly before those settings can be determined in a balanced way.

[GamesaurusRex]

ORIGINAL: Wheat

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

Fix the German morale script in the game to correct the morale decline schedule. Until that is done, nothing can be balanced.

To all my fellow forum denizens, I believe this means GR will NOT be getting to Berlin.

Neither I, nor anyone else, will be getting to Berlin, without massive amounts of "manipulation" for NO HELD results, with the German game morale mechanism stuck at 70.

[loki100]

edited

[morvael]

I think you will like the changes in 1.08 then. Morale is working according to the manual, but also it's moddable now - for each of the participant countries (Ger, Fin, Ita, Rum, Hun, Slo, Sov) one can set modifiers from -99 to 99, one for each year. It's now possible to buff/debuff any side/country you like. I for one don't like that the Axis Minors are so weak, so I would give them +5. This is moddable in scenario data though, so you have to play a custom scenario. Also, NM is dumped to logistics phase log, so everyone will know what is the current level. I found it strange that one could mod so many things in the game, but not the most important parameter of the entire game. Since it's hard to add more options on the option screen, I think this is where the promised ability to turn off 1:1->2:1 will go - a scenario parameter.

[GamesaurusRex]

THANK YOU MORVAEL !!


[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

I can't applaud your efforts enough !

This sort of support affirms my decision of having purchased Matrix/2X3 products, and I eagerly await the opportunity to purchase War In The West and War In The East 2.0 when available.

[GamesaurusRex]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

ORIGINAL: Lobster

This game has been out for quite some time and people are still complaining about balance. [:D]

Kind of like every other game in the galaxy, including ones far less complex than this one? Have you been to forums for games like Company of Heroes? There are still vicious battles over balance being fought 7 years after release...

The fact that a game is still passionately debated years after it's publication is proof of it's entertainment value. [;)]

[DorianGray]

ORIGINAL: morvael

I for one don't like that the Axis Minors are so weak, so I would give them +5. This is moddable in scenario data though, so you have to play a custom scenario.

Agree. As it is now, they are a waste of supplies.

For the most part, they are already penalized enough by having significantly inferior equipment and TO&Es. Having their NM so low as well seems to be over kill.

[hfarrish]

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[morvael]

As promised I have just added another scenario option for 1.08 - it allows to set the "1:1->2:1" rule in three ways: the original way (default) that gives bonus to Soviets on the attack, so that any odds greater than 1:1 are improved by 1; the other way that gives bonus to Soviets on the defense, so that any Axis odds greater than 1:1 are reduced by 1 (I think this could be used to better represent the stubborn defense that Russian army is known for, if not outmaneuvered); and the third way which allows to turn the rule off. #1 and #2 work until Feb'42 (inclusive) as before, there is no way to make the rule work longer or shorter.

[Wheat]

If I may ask, do you have a ball park date for 1.08? GamesaurusRex is wanting a rematch, with all sorts of Russian advantages, and I have a reputation as the world's greatest GHC player to uphold. I need better Rumanian morale.

And whether you can give an approximate date or not, your the bomb Mr. Morvael!

[Schmart]

ORIGINAL: morvael

As promised I have just added another scenario option for 1.08 - it allows to set the "1:1->2:1" rule in three ways: the original way (default) that gives bonus to Soviets on the attack, so that any odds greater than 1:1 are improved by 1; the other way that gives bonus to Soviets on the defense, so that any Axis odds greater than 1:1 are reduced by 1 (I think this could be used to better represent the stubborn defense that Russian army is known for, if not outmaneuvered); and the third way which allows to turn the rule off. #1 and #2 work until Feb'42 (inclusive) as before, there is no way to make the rule work longer or shorter.

It's great to add some flexibility. I fear that #2 will simply encourage the Russian player to passively sit back even more so. I think one element that the game really needs is an incentive for the Russians to attack and be more aggressive in 1941 and 1942, even if at poor odds and taking heavy casualties, to simulate the offensive 'spirit' of the Soviet high command. How to achieve that is the hard part...

[morvael]

@Wheat
Can't give exact dates, this is the third day (and third version) that 1.08 went into testers hands. We have to test it thoroughly, because the scope of changes is very serious. I think chances are >50% than it will be available (delivered to the official pipeline) before the next Barbarossa anniversary.

@Schmart
It's only an option, so it does no harm. Maybe the Soviet player will not run so fast with this rule? It allows to cause more losses to the Germans in a passive way (rather than active) and without risking troops as much as when you attack. To simulate offensive spirit there is only one way, unavailable in WitE - to award VP for making attacks, just like it the game I "worship": 1914 Twilight in the East. So, unfortunately, there will never be a super-solution to solve all problems WitE has with players' hindsight.

[Denniss]

1.08 has some very nice features but requires thorough testing, especially some long-run AI vs AI tests reaching the problem areas 1943/44.
This will probably become a long Beta cycle after it's considered stable and balanced enough to be released to the public.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: morvael

As promised I have just added another scenario option for 1.08 - it allows to set the "1:1->2:1" rule in three ways: the original way (default) that gives bonus to Soviets on the attack, so that any odds greater than 1:1 are improved by 1; the other way that gives bonus to Soviets on the defense, so that any Axis odds greater than 1:1 are reduced by 1 (I think this could be used to better represent the stubborn defense that Russian army is known for, if not outmaneuvered); and the third way which allows to turn the rule off. #1 and #2 work until Feb'42 (inclusive) as before, there is no way to make the rule work longer or shorter.

That stubborn defense option sounds very interesting. Maybe this is what the silly rule should have been in the first place.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: Schmart

ORIGINAL: morvael

As promised I have just added another scenario option for 1.08 - it allows to set the "1:1->2:1" rule in three ways: the original way (default) that gives bonus to Soviets on the attack, so that any odds greater than 1:1 are improved by 1; the other way that gives bonus to Soviets on the defense, so that any Axis odds greater than 1:1 are reduced by 1 (I think this could be used to better represent the stubborn defense that Russian army is known for, if not outmaneuvered); and the third way which allows to turn the rule off. #1 and #2 work until Feb'42 (inclusive) as before, there is no way to make the rule work longer or shorter.

It's great to add some flexibility. I fear that #2 will simply encourage the Russian player to passively sit back even more so. I think one element that the game really needs is an incentive for the Russians to attack and be more aggressive in 1941 and 1942, even if at poor odds and taking heavy casualties, to simulate the offensive 'spirit' of the Soviet high command. How to achieve that is the hard part...

I disagree. Right now it is rather too easy to attack as the Soviet. The game rewards Soviet counterattacking just fine, too much in fact.

[governato]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

Having just been through a '43-'45 campaign I think the bigger issue is honestly fort spam...yes, fixing morale addresses this in a different way but I think toning down forts (which I am currently experimenting with in another '41 GC) gets you there without the dramatic impacts of morale cuts and leads to a more fluid, dynamic campaign. We'll see.

I agree. Maybe balanced by lower logistics settings? Let us know how it goes!