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Naval search at night - 4/27/2014 8:14:08 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Is there any benefit on doing "Naval Search" missions flying "Night Operations"

I have never done it as seems to be counterintuitive. if it is hard to spot on the day, it should be near impossible at night
am I missing an important component of the naval search? like the very early hours of the morning/ the last hours before sunset?

would this missing improve significantly with radar equipped planes?
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RE: Naval search at night - 4/27/2014 8:29:08 PM   
Lokasenna


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It is extremely helpful to your ASW TFs and SC TFs to perform night search, particularly when defending your own waters. If you have pilots trained up, you'll get decent results - not always a big DL hit, but enough to know that "something" is there.

It may be counter-intuitive, but ships leave phosphorescent wakes (I don't know if that's sometimes or all the time), so presumably spotting them at night isn't as hard as trying to find a dark grey hull on a black surface in starlight or moonlight. I believe the bigger/faster the ship, the more visible the wake is, but I'd be surprised if the game was that granular.

Speaking of moonlight, I imagine higher moonlight means better results.

I imagine radar helps at night just as it helps during the day.

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/27/2014 8:49:42 PM   
AW1Steve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It is extremely helpful to your ASW TFs and SC TFs to perform night search, particularly when defending your own waters. If you have pilots trained up, you'll get decent results - not always a big DL hit, but enough to know that "something" is there.

It may be counter-intuitive, but ships leave phosphorescent wakes (I don't know if that's sometimes or all the time), so presumably spotting them at night isn't as hard as trying to find a dark grey hull on a black surface in starlight or moonlight. I believe the bigger/faster the ship, the more visible the wake is, but I'd be surprised if the game was that granular.

Speaking of moonlight, I imagine higher moonlight means better results.

I imagine radar helps at night just as it helps during the day.



This is good to know! It sounds like the game might actually mirror real life. Surface search at night is very possible. Most dedicated maritime patrol aircraft have carried some form of search light , or had a flare dropping mechanism. Navies of this period practiced having patrol and float planes dropping flares behind enemy surface ships to "backlight" them. I seem to recall that the Japanese were particularly good at this.

And warm , tropical waters definitely encourage bio-luminance. I've seen many a ship (and a few would be drug smuggler) courtesy of it's properties. (Of course RADAR amd ESM helped get us in the right neighborhood ). In the pre-FLIR and low light TV days , as late as the 1970's it was standard practice to search with RADAR or do an "open-ocean" patrol , and then Illuminate a massive area with either a huge airborne light (such as the Leigh light) or flares.

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/27/2014 9:02:07 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Thank!

so much ocean to cover day& night... so few patrol planes

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/27/2014 9:08:50 PM   
AW1Steve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Thank!

so much ocean to cover day& night... so few patrol planes


You will never , ever have enough patrol planes! One reason you shouldn't use them as bombers. And be delighted when your opponent does!

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/28/2014 12:42:57 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Is there any benefit on doing "Naval Search" missions flying "Night Operations"


Sure. If you can start a baseline DL on enemy submarines during the night search phase, it prevents them from 'shedding' their previous day's DL during the night and decreases their value.

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/28/2014 5:24:42 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Is there any benefit on doing "Naval Search" missions flying "Night Operations"


Sure. If you can start a baseline DL on enemy submarines during the night search phase, it prevents them from 'shedding' their previous day's DL during the night and decreases their value.


I get much better surface ASW results (well, more attacks anyway) when I run night search.

My subs get attacked more when sighted during the night as well.

It's all a function of DL...

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/28/2014 6:31:41 PM   
RisingSun


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Both radars and moon lights or visibility what counts, believe detection levels help too.

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/28/2014 6:38:51 PM   
Lowpe

 

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Your surface groups can react sooner, I get many more night engagements when using night searches. Also, I don't think it always tips your hand to the enemy that you are there.


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RE: Naval search at night - 4/28/2014 6:51:39 PM   
AW1Steve

 

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When I just tried doing "naval search" at night , I found that for the allies at least , only float planes could perform this. Patrol planes and LB's could not. Could you guys check me on this?

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/28/2014 7:53:23 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

When I just tried doing "naval search" at night , I found that for the allies at least , only float planes could perform this. Patrol planes and LB's could not. Could you guys check me on this?

Works fine for me.

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/28/2014 8:01:43 PM   
obvert


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I use night search extensively. Not only does it increase subs DL, this increase in DL helps prevent attacks by those subs. All of my big fuel convoys running from Singers to the HI will have an AV with FP on night search. I will have ASW and day search from LBA, but the night search will be more useful to prevent hits.

For sub hunting, as stated above, you need night, day, and ASW searches in the same area.

The other big benefit of night search is increasing DL for surface battles, increasing an advantage for your commander to react or once in the hunt to get surprise.

For night striking ops it is of course indispensable to have some search.

A number of planes can't search at night. I remember one of the Frances types can't, but the later version can. All FP can and Netties can. Not sure about the Allied yet, as I've not tried them all. Will do during my next turn.

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/29/2014 12:24:38 AM   
Louisvillan


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Thanks guys, this is a really helpful thread. It always surprises me the level of detail in this game. Now I've got to go through and assign night patrols in my Anti Submarine hunting areas (Puget Sound and Columbo).

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/29/2014 12:45:30 AM   
spence

 

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There are quite a few AARs reporting on attacks which occurred at night during WW2 at VPNAVY.COM.
(Unfortunately one must search for the AARs by squadron name/number). Attacks by naval patrol aircraft (not limited to the "Black Cats"- it seems there were multiple squadrons that claimed that moniker) seem to have been quite common and pretty effective. Radar helped a lot with locating a target though most of the actual attacks (bomb releases) were made with visual guidance.

From what I have read the Bay of Biscay Offensive against the U-boats was quite effective. U-boats were located by radar and then attacked visually while illuminated by Leigh Light.
Quite a few were seriously damaged or sunk. But in the game ASW patrols are not even a possibility at night. Why is that?


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RE: Naval search at night - 4/29/2014 1:09:22 AM   
AW1Steve

 

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I couldn't get PBY's to night search, just Kingfishers and Seagulls.

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RE: Naval search at night - 4/29/2014 11:04:53 AM   
dr.hal


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Steve I think for the allies that's all that can search at night.... at least in the early months of the game... not sure about later. Hal

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RE: Naval search at night - 5/3/2014 12:05:59 AM   
Louisvillan


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I've been able to find several squadrons that will run Night Naval Search Missions..... I play Allied against the AI. It's January 24th 1943. Some of the squadrons I've toggled:

USN VP-13 flying PB2Y-3 Coronados out of Seattle
RCAF No. 4 Sqn flying Canso A (export PBY's) out of Vancouver
RAF No. 62 Sqn flying Hudson IIIa out of Columbo
RAAF No. 20 Sqn flying Catalina I out of Cooktown

All the above aircraft are equipped with radar and loaded with bombs.

QUESTION: for those with a better technical experience. All my above squadrons are well trained in both Search and ASW. If they were to detect an enemy Submarine at night, would they only report the position? Or would they also make an attack attempt? Understand that even with radar detection, the odds of success are less at night.

This is similar to a question I've had in the back of my mind..... If a squadron assigned to ASW in this game comes across an enemy surface task force,,,, I assume it will make a contact report.... Wouldn't an assigned search aircraft equipped with bombs make some attempt to attack?

Again, thanks for the tread, it's added another layer of depth to this game...

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