Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Moderators: Arjuna, Panther Paul
Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Well, I had a good plan - I thought - but it failed!
I will post the results of my plan and some of how the battle went and then a slide on what went well (not much) and what went wrong (lots)
Planning
Things to consider
Flank protection - Where are US reinforcements coming from?
North - unlikely
West – most likely
By passed US forces along Schnee Eifel (woods)
Grouping - It looks like for the most part the Inf guns have already been detached to the Bns
I need to ensure that this is true
Intelligence
I need to take time to look at what the US forces are doing?
How they are organized
When and where their reinforcements arrive and how they get deployed
Enemy Forces
15 Coy sized forces along the Schnee Eifel rigde (woods. They are already dislocated by the initial deployment of my forces. It would be very nice to trap these units
Screening force to the North
Most powerful known US units are the two US Assault Gun Companies. Need to deal with them
Screening force along the South
It would be nice to be able hit the Arty Bns early to take them out of the game
Friendly Forces – On Map
North
Two Regts from the 18 VGD
294 Regt with 2 Bns
295 Regt with 2 Bns
An Eng Coy
A STU Coy
A mix of Arty units (6 Bns)
Middle
A Bn watching the Schnee Eifel ridge
South
293 Regt (18 VGD) with 2 Bns
190 Regt (62 VGD) with 2 Bns
A mix of Arty units (7 Bns)
Friendly Forces – Reinforcements
Arriving in North
3 FJD Bn – morning D1
244 Stu Regt – morning D1
18 VGD HQ – early afternoon D2
FB Brigade – D4 between 0530 and 2030
3 Bns and has some tanks
Arriving in South
62 VGD
164 Regt (2 Bns) – between D1 0900 – D1 1600
183 Regt (2 Bns) – between D2 0900 – D2 1200
Here are the Objectives
I will post the results of my plan and some of how the battle went and then a slide on what went well (not much) and what went wrong (lots)
Planning
Things to consider
Flank protection - Where are US reinforcements coming from?
North - unlikely
West – most likely
By passed US forces along Schnee Eifel (woods)
Grouping - It looks like for the most part the Inf guns have already been detached to the Bns
I need to ensure that this is true
Intelligence
I need to take time to look at what the US forces are doing?
How they are organized
When and where their reinforcements arrive and how they get deployed
Enemy Forces
15 Coy sized forces along the Schnee Eifel rigde (woods. They are already dislocated by the initial deployment of my forces. It would be very nice to trap these units
Screening force to the North
Most powerful known US units are the two US Assault Gun Companies. Need to deal with them
Screening force along the South
It would be nice to be able hit the Arty Bns early to take them out of the game
Friendly Forces – On Map
North
Two Regts from the 18 VGD
294 Regt with 2 Bns
295 Regt with 2 Bns
An Eng Coy
A STU Coy
A mix of Arty units (6 Bns)
Middle
A Bn watching the Schnee Eifel ridge
South
293 Regt (18 VGD) with 2 Bns
190 Regt (62 VGD) with 2 Bns
A mix of Arty units (7 Bns)
Friendly Forces – Reinforcements
Arriving in North
3 FJD Bn – morning D1
244 Stu Regt – morning D1
18 VGD HQ – early afternoon D2
FB Brigade – D4 between 0530 and 2030
3 Bns and has some tanks
Arriving in South
62 VGD
164 Regt (2 Bns) – between D1 0900 – D1 1600
183 Regt (2 Bns) – between D2 0900 – D2 1200
Here are the Objectives
- Attachments
-
- Objectives.jpg (206.04 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Mission Analysis
Superior Commander’s Intent
Swiftly secure St. Vith to cut the main North-South highway and secure northern flank for drive onto Bastogne.
Assigned Tasks
18 VGD
Seize crossing at Andler
Seize crossing at Schonberg
Prevent US forces along Schnee Eifel from withdrawing
62 VD
Secure crossing at Steinebruck
Subsequent Obj
Secure road junctions around St. Vith
Implied Tasks
Deal with the two Assault Gun Companies
Main Effort
Securing the crossing sites over the Our River (Andler, Schonberg and Steinebruck)
Terrain
Major River (the Our) runs horizontally across the front
Three main crossing sites
Andler
Schonberg
Steinebruck
Hilly and covered ground
Some trails and roads
Large number of small towns
Two potential Infantry crossing sites near Rodgen - These sites could be important to permit me to dislocate or disrupt US defence
US options
1. Defend in place
Try to hold the Schnee Eifel
Reinforce to hold key bridges and supply lines
2. Withdraw to Our River
Try to save forces along Schnee Eifel, by falling back quickly and defending along river
Would need to hold corridor between Andler and Schonberg open for this to be successful
3. Block in South while falling back in North to the Our River
Thoughts
Need to do something about the Assault Gun companies - Could try to fix them in place
Need to plan/account for 164 Regt that arrives early on the first morning
I think the US will likely select Option 2 - This means that if I move quickly to seize Auw and Radscheid I should be able to destroy the withdrawing US forces.
German Options
1. As ordered
2. Encirclement
3. Dislocate West
Option 1
Superior Commander’s Intent
Swiftly secure St. Vith to cut the main North-South highway and secure northern flank for drive onto Bastogne.
Assigned Tasks
18 VGD
Seize crossing at Andler
Seize crossing at Schonberg
Prevent US forces along Schnee Eifel from withdrawing
62 VD
Secure crossing at Steinebruck
Subsequent Obj
Secure road junctions around St. Vith
Implied Tasks
Deal with the two Assault Gun Companies
Main Effort
Securing the crossing sites over the Our River (Andler, Schonberg and Steinebruck)
Terrain
Major River (the Our) runs horizontally across the front
Three main crossing sites
Andler
Schonberg
Steinebruck
Hilly and covered ground
Some trails and roads
Large number of small towns
Two potential Infantry crossing sites near Rodgen - These sites could be important to permit me to dislocate or disrupt US defence
US options
1. Defend in place
Try to hold the Schnee Eifel
Reinforce to hold key bridges and supply lines
2. Withdraw to Our River
Try to save forces along Schnee Eifel, by falling back quickly and defending along river
Would need to hold corridor between Andler and Schonberg open for this to be successful
3. Block in South while falling back in North to the Our River
Thoughts
Need to do something about the Assault Gun companies - Could try to fix them in place
Need to plan/account for 164 Regt that arrives early on the first morning
I think the US will likely select Option 2 - This means that if I move quickly to seize Auw and Radscheid I should be able to destroy the withdrawing US forces.
German Options
1. As ordered
2. Encirclement
3. Dislocate West
Option 1
- Attachments
-
- Option1.jpg (231.08 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Option 2
- Attachments
-
- Option2.jpg (243.57 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Option 3
- Attachments
-
- Option3.jpg (250 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Discussion
The three options are similar, the differences are in the way the force is applied in the south
If the goal is to encircle the US forces on the Schnee Eifel
Then Option 2 is the best
Better chance to contain US forces
Better chance to seize the two Eastern crossings
If goal is to capture Our River crossings
Then Option 1 and 3 are better
I like the idea of encircling the US forces to remove them from the game
Decision
The three options are similar, the differences are in the way the force is applied in the south
If the goal is to encircle the US forces on the Schnee Eifel
Then Option 2 is the best
Better chance to contain US forces
Better chance to seize the two Eastern crossings
If goal is to capture Our River crossings
Then Option 1 and 3 are better
I like the idea of encircling the US forces to remove them from the game
Decision
- Attachments
-
- Decision.jpg (247.32 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Sounds very professional Mike.
I can tell you have done this kind of thing before [:)]
I can tell you have done this kind of thing before [:)]
-
- Posts: 2922
- Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:26 pm
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Yeah. Love it, Mike. Await the results with interest.
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Thanks for interest and kind words.
As you will see, this battle did not turn out well for me....
Here is a screen shot from about 3 hours in.
As you will see, this battle did not turn out well for me....
Here is a screen shot from about 3 hours in.
- Attachments
-
- Picture1.jpg (253.15 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
The 164 Regt arrives and my frustration mounts with the Bn COs in both the 293rd and 295th Regts.
In retrospect, I should have jumped in here. The lack of movement for the 293rd meant that they got pounded by the US Arty for a long time. Also, I probably should have moved my Arty forward earlier in the day - they had no ammo so could not do any damage to the US forces, so moving them forward would have at least meant that when they got ammo they could reach out farther....
In retrospect, I should have jumped in here. The lack of movement for the 293rd meant that they got pounded by the US Arty for a long time. Also, I probably should have moved my Arty forward earlier in the day - they had no ammo so could not do any damage to the US forces, so moving them forward would have at least meant that when they got ammo they could reach out farther....
- Attachments
-
- Picture2.jpg (262.36 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
D1 1700
Progress remains slow, but they were good things - captured bridge in the North.
Progress remains slow, but they were good things - captured bridge in the North.
- Attachments
-
- Picture3.jpg (232.2 KiB) Viewed 540 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
-
- Posts: 2922
- Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:26 pm
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
What is holding the 293rd? Can't see what would be stopping them? Are they on a Probe or Move order, with attacks checked or not? What does the HQ log say is happening? They don't seem to have moved for 12 hours. I would like to see the counter corner boxes showing orders, maybe, instead of combat strength? But are you sure this isn't a lock-up bug, instead of something legit? What does the log say? If it's a bug, Mike, the log might typically have no entries at all to explain what is going on.
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Phoenix,
Good questions. I went back to a save around this time. It never occurred to me to look - I need to start doing that.
Looking farther back than what can be seen below, 2nd Bn HQ 293 started taking casualties at 0902 - mainly from Arty fire, and routed at 1108. It had been given a defend task in Muhlenberg.
As for the 1st Bn, it was tasked to move to Alferberg. At 0858 is was absorbing independents - this took until 1103 when it started engaging. At 1137 is started to be bombarded and then retreated at 1211. For the next two hours it was changing formation - and then it is visible below.
I have no idea if this is a bug - I just figured that the Bn COs were just not very good.
Good questions. I went back to a save around this time. It never occurred to me to look - I need to start doing that.
Looking farther back than what can be seen below, 2nd Bn HQ 293 started taking casualties at 0902 - mainly from Arty fire, and routed at 1108. It had been given a defend task in Muhlenberg.
As for the 1st Bn, it was tasked to move to Alferberg. At 0858 is was absorbing independents - this took until 1103 when it started engaging. At 1137 is started to be bombarded and then retreated at 1211. For the next two hours it was changing formation - and then it is visible below.
I have no idea if this is a bug - I just figured that the Bn COs were just not very good.
- Attachments
-
- Picture4.jpg (195.44 KiB) Viewed 542 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
-
- Posts: 2922
- Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:26 pm
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
I don't think it's a bug, Mike. Not sure, but I just ran it and gave the 293rd a similar route to yours. It has been bogged down unable to form up for many hours now, the log recording the reason - continual bombardment and casualties. that bare heath south-east of Muhlenberg seems deadly. It can't get through the bombardment, basically. the log for mine is full of entries about casualties and bombardment. So maybe that's it.
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Wow! Thanks for checking, I really appreciate that. I'm going to try this battle again soon. I think I will try to swing these two Bns west a little more - hoping to shake them loose right away.
Have a good day,
Mike
Have a good day,
Mike
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
I had exactly the same problem on my first run through, its one of the scenarios that made me never feel guilty about decimating the enemy with my player controlled artillery.
That bare slope as you leave the Hockelinie and descend towards the river is a kill zone.
I cracked it in the end by micromanaging the lead Coy's from cover to cover, and infiltrating them through in order to spot for my own artillery, and block key routes.
I then attacked through with my second Bn that was resting all day at last light, in a night attack.
I also had a lot of problems with the AC platoons in the north.
That bare slope as you leave the Hockelinie and descend towards the river is a kill zone.
I cracked it in the end by micromanaging the lead Coy's from cover to cover, and infiltrating them through in order to spot for my own artillery, and block key routes.
I then attacked through with my second Bn that was resting all day at last light, in a night attack.
I also had a lot of problems with the AC platoons in the north.
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Daz, thanks for the suggestions. I will definitely try that in my next attempt.
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Launching Reserve
I was getting frustrated with the lack of progress - so decided to try and speed things up...
I was getting frustrated with the lack of progress - so decided to try and speed things up...
- Attachments
-
- Picture5.jpg (164.26 KiB) Viewed 542 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Day 2 - Nearing dawn
- Attachments
-
- Picture6.jpg (254.03 KiB) Viewed 542 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Day 2 - Dawn arrives
- Attachments
-
- Picture7.jpg (274.77 KiB) Viewed 542 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner
RE: Disaster in the Loshiem Gap
Us reinforcements start arriving
- Attachments
-
- Picture8.jpg (277.08 KiB) Viewed 542 times
Mike
Retired Gunner
Retired Gunner