[FIXED B517] issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

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mcp5500
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[FIXED B517] issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

I have an issue with Only Bearing Attacks. I fire Harpoons and click where and on what bearing, the weapon fires but the readar on the harpoon goes active way before where i clicked on the map. I want to control when the weapon goes active. anyone know how this is supposed to work? I have to click a spot way past the target to get this to work. The radar comes on close to the target. The sub has a good fix on the target location.
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Sardaukar
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by Sardaukar »

I think BOL works the way that point you send it is supposed to be the point where target is (guesstimate). So missile activates before that, sensor range and some margin, I guess? I think that is to maximize the chance that missile acquires the target

Workaround of course is how you do it, clicking point past target.
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

Ya, I think you are right. i remember Harpoon where you clicked was the weapons targeting systems activation point. I do not understand why you would not do it that way. The players will have to figure that out on their own.
ComDev
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by ComDev »

What build are you using?

The Harpoon missile should activate on the point you select [8D]
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

It is not. I have to select (left click) a point 40% beyond the target to get the weapons radar to activate just before the target. The harpoon does not go active at my selected location using bearing only attack.

I believe I am on 1.03 ( build 504)
See USS Baltimore SC2 - Two Birds One Stone scenario under mods and scenarios thread to setup test.

UGM-84A Harpoon IP - 1982

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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

This is an issue in playing my new scenario USS Baltimore SC2 - Two Birds One Stone 1983. It does not work.
thewood1
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by thewood1 »

I have run a bunch of sandbox tests on the Harpoon 1C. The radar activates about 4nm from the point I pick every time. It is basically activating at the missile's max radar range from where you pick as the target point.
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

That maybe correct. This issue makes my scenario unplayable. SSN commanders set the weapons travel distance before arming. As difficult as I made the convoy approach, this has to work.
thewood1
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by thewood1 »

SO you can't subtract 4nm miles from the range?
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

Should not have too. A new player plays for several hours to get to the convoy part of the mission and the games harpoons does this to him/her. I will look or try other versions of the weapon to find a solution.
thewood1
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by thewood1 »

But it is 50/50...does a new player think a BOL is pointed at a target or at a point for the missile to start searching. If its BOL, you most likely don't have an exact fix in real life. In real life a missile is given a bearing and an activation point, not a target. If you fire it at a target, there is a pretty good change the missile will over fly the target before activating.

How is your scenario unplayable. I really don't understand that and sounds like some hyperbole.
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

Thanks thewood1 ans sorry I lost my cool. The weapon procedure would be to put in a course, activation point and actually a de-activate point as well to limit collateral damage. She sub will get a pretty accurate distance to use for guidance. In this mission you only have 8 harpoons and to get close you need to hit the merchants close before the destroyer defends or take out the second destroyer. To do this the harpoons need to become active very close to the target. After playing the first part of the scenario you may and will use your torpedoes so every harpoon counts and the larger part of your score is on thoughs merchants. Well that's what I am shooting for.
thewood1
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by thewood1 »

I think you are working within real life limits here. In RL, a weapons officer is going to have the same issue. It's all about knowing your weapon and how it works.
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

I agree if this is modeling this harpoon. I could mention something about it in the scenario briefing to assist the player; but, if it is a bug, the issue would change. Thiese harpoons are from 1982 so they are fairly new so I could get something in there but if they then fix it?

Maybe this thread should move to tech support
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

I did some testing. The model of the harpoon is way off in command as far as the weapons officer setting up the weapon to fire (i mean the clicks the player has to perform). First off for the bearing only shot The player should select the weapon and with the first mark (click point is where the weapon search radar should activate (the yellow cone starts projecting from that point)) the player would then click a second time to locate where the weapon disarms and drops to the ground). The way to is modeled now is that the radar activates 7.5 miles ahead of the click point (This is just straight out WRONG). Why is it wrong you ask? it is because the programers did not want to spend the time to make TWO different types of weapon release programs. They did not take the time to write a manual weapon release algorithm to emulate the Harpoons features. The AI can't use it so why write it. This is the basic weapon of modern navel warfare. This is really poor. This is ware I might just shelf it. I am pissed. Maybe it should have been written for the Bearing only shot first and the other shooting options (AI, engage targets types) subtract the 7.5 miles from the target solution for everything else. That's the way to do it. It just became a toy not a simulation in my eyes. You just can not get down to the nitty-gritty of navel warfare in command.

Is this on the drawing board to be fixed? I will tell the player in my scenario how the weapon should be used in the GAME.
ComDev
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by ComDev »

Hi MCP, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way.

Have looked into this. The BOL point in Command is currently the estimated target location. The missile (quite naturally) activates early to be able to detect the target and adjust course. The logics have been improved in B507 and the weapon no longer takes the ESM (target search) seeker into account. It should therefore activate ca 4nm from the BOL point.

I agree the BOL point should probably be the activation point. Your request is on our list.

Thanks [8D]
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

Well, that was a good reply. It gives me hope. I will add a comment or pretend that it is a new weapon and how it should be used in the scenario.
ComDev
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by ComDev »

Upgrading to B507 will also help improve things [8D]
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

I will mention that in Scenario Notes
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mcp5500
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RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons

Post by mcp5500 »

I think my aggravation is on expectation. I wanted to do a convoy mission that sucess is only achievable by advantage in position and have the player work to take that one shot, that has to be a bearing only attack. If position is achieved, then the information you gain by earring that position gives you the advantage. The player has to be told how to take that shot. He/she has to select a position past the target. They have to stop the game, measure 3 miles past the target, mark it with no drawing tools, to take advantage of the position they earned. An average player may not figure that out because the bearing only attack can not be properly explained in the advantage you gained. If you fire it at the target, there is no advantage. Position is meaningless. The player has to be told the weapon is not modeled correctly for the player to take advantage of their success. You are so close but there is always a hurdle. Click and shoot. The only advantage in this game is overwhelming an apponent by the number of arms. There is no other advantage say number of arms and a great differance in weapon technology. 1984 against 2010 weapons. The game has no advantages designed in it. Easy to program though. I am done. If it can't do this then I was lied to.
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