KB is gamey? Barb now admitted

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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adsoul64
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KB is gamey? Barb now admitted

Post by adsoul64 »

...........
...........
As a desperate Japanese player I was thinking to resort to extreme tactics for my revered opponent is kicking my butt since day 1.

My idea was to load a couple of CVs with airgroups from the other CVs. For example CV Zuikaku could be equipped with fighter from herself, DB from Akagi and TB from Kaga. My purpose is striking somewhere in order to make him thinking that the whole KB is striking but in fact keeping 4 flattops ready to ambush his carriers if he will raise to the bait.

My question: would you think that this tactic is gamey?
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EHansen
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by EHansen »

I don't think so.
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RogerJNeilson
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Post by RogerJNeilson »

Cunning, underhand, devious maybe....

However I'm not sure it would work. As an Allied player I only ever get details of the air units I encounter when I attack over a Jap base - when i get to see the air units defending.....

I never get more than the plane type when they attack me....

Roger
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adsoul64
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by adsoul64 »

Roger, my bet is that my opponent watch the replay very careful and he could read names of airgroups. It would be a try, nothing sure, but as I told you I'm almost acting out of desperation.
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Terminus
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Post by Terminus »

It would be ahistorical. Whether or not it's 'gamey', I can't answer.
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by jcjordan »

I wouldn't say gamey to me as you've a F/DB/TB air group in the case you mentioned. It may be that you've lost a CV but saved the air group & the group that is original to the CV in question is back in the HI training from losses while you've a combat ready air group from a "sunk" CV in it's place. Historically the USN rotated many groups on CVs late war that really aren't represented in the game. As Roger said though, your opponent would only see plane types unless he's the attacker & would then only see your fighter type air groups on CAP from the combat reports.
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Terminus
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Post by Terminus »

The US did, yeah. The IJN, not so much.
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spence
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by spence »

Doing this would be completely ahistorical and IRL the IJN would have a terrible time accommodating such a thing for administrative purposes. The aviators in an IJN airgroup were part of the ship's company. The ship maintained the pay records, health records, and personnel records of the aviators and maintenance personnel. Putting these personnel onto any old random ship would be a great way to have them not get paid or not get trained or just plain disappear from official view. So from the point of view of history it is exploiting a "feature" of the game and is therefore gamey.

Of course the game simulates none of that sort of thing so it might be a good ploy IF it actually worked.

I play Allies pretty much. IRL the Air Groups of USN carriers were not part any ship's company.
They included the maintenance personnel and the administrative personnel so the unit could be xferred between carriers easily. BUT in the game, I have had troubles in combat when I tried to use an Air Group comprised of squadrons from more than one airgroup (example: Fighting 6, Scouting 3, Bombing 6 and Torpedo 2). Even with single carrier TFs it seems that at least one of the squadrons in such an air group just sits out the combat doing nothing. IRL the USS Yorktown fielded such an air group at Midway and their June 4 (AM) strike was the best coordinated strike the USN put together that day so the game system may not be able to reflect the advantage that USN organization actually gave the USN. Mucked up strikes by mixed IJN air groups would be more historical but probably more the result of the game mechanics than any intentional reflection of history.
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by wdolson »

The IJN could have done it, though they didn't. The USN did it quite a bit.

I wouldn't call it gamey myself.

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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The IJN could have done it, though they didn't. The USN did it quite a bit.

I wouldn't call it gamey myself.

Bill

Sounds good to me also. I'm not sure it's worth much to you, as you don't see "Ryujo-2 approaching target area" all the time in PBEM (if ever?). Typically it's "3x B5N2 Kate approaching target area."
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Feltan
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by Feltan »

If I was you opponent I would not consider it gamey.

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obvert
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by obvert »

It's good deception. We know too much about air groups and units anyway from the game information. Not many bomber groups could identify individual ships on their attack runs, yet we get that info in game (with some FOW). Same for units on land. Like 8 x B-25 bombing 55th division. Who's up there reading the insignia of the unit? [:D]

So no it's not gamey, it's using the too plentiful information provided by the game to create deceptive potential, which is great. I've used different groups on my CVs during much of my current IJ game, but not for this reason, simply as rotation or for other reasons.

This would work best if the CVs are attacked, as all CAP groups are listed in the CR. I just went through and identified 20 of my opponents CVs in this way, looking up the group in game and also online from this site which is pretty good for an Allied list. It's taken from Tillman's book, U.S. Navy Fighter Squadrons in World War II.

http://acepilots.com/usn_sqns.html
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adsoul64
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by adsoul64 »

Thanks everybody people, my decision is still pending. Most of you have pointed out that chances to succeed are little and I agree as well. Just one observation, in reports my opponent will see the air groups flying CAP (i.e. CAP engaged: Ryujo-1 with A5M4 Claude) and I remember to have seen quite often the name of striking airgroup though not every time, as Lokasenna correctly states.
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

Thanks everybody people, my decision is still pending. Most of you have pointed out that chances to succeed are little and I agree as well. Just one observation, in reports my opponent will see the air groups flying CAP (i.e. CAP engaged: Ryujo-1 with A5M4 Claude) and I remember to have seen quite often the name of striking airgroup though not every time, as Lokasenna correctly states.

I'm not sure, but I think you may only see the name of the strike group when you're playing against the computer. If so, then the only time it could confuse your opponent would be when he hit your CVs... in which case if enough strike package got through (or by the small numbers of CAP) he may be able to deduce that you only have 2 CVs there in the first place.
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Post by witpqs »

Nothing whatsoever gamey about it, not even in the slightest.
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by Icedawg »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The IJN could have done it, though they didn't. The USN did it quite a bit.

I wouldn't call it gamey myself.

Bill

I watch the combat replay religiously, and I see messages indicating which squadrons are attacking all the time (both mine and my opponent's).

Sounds good to me also. I'm not sure it's worth much to you, as you don't see "Ryujo-2 approaching target area" all the time in PBEM (if ever?). Typically it's "3x B5N2 Kate approaching target area."
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by Icedawg »

In response to the OP - not gamey at all. You are not manipulating the game engine's shortcomings to intentionally create an unrealistic outcome. You are simply doing something that could very reasonably have been done but wasn't actually done in the war. Go for it.
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by JocMeister »

Absolutely nothing gamey about it!
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Post by Gaspote »

Does Allied player can see the name of the squadrons ?

He see "X plane type action at alt", no ?
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RE: KB is gamey? Barb please look elsewhere

Post by Symon »

Is it gamey? Of course it is gamey. If you are trying to use the AE game engine reporting system (which Japan did not have), to confuse your opponent, It’s obviously gamey, by definition.

Does anyone care? Of course not!

The reports don’t give the specific squadrons, and a smart player will notice the paucity of a/c in a raid, and understand that it ain’t the KB. And that’s because the usual IJ player “thinks” the KB has some kind of advantage and always keeps it together. Anything less than a full KB strike means a separate CarDiv out there just waiting for a counter-strike.

It’s all good. You play gamey, your opponent can play gamey too. If he’s smart, advantage opponent.

Why do people always insist on trying to find some gamey little trick rather than just playing the game? The world wonders.
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