"Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

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Ozymandias2
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"Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

A friend and I have been playing weekly games of Close Combat since 1999.

Sadly, the introduction of the "Lobby" system with "Panthers" has essentially ruined this.

3 out of the last 4 attempts to play H2H have utterly failed due to YOUR wretched Lobby/server system!
(We are BOTH IT pros and KNOW the problem is neither with our machines nor Internet connectivity.)

Specifics: EVERY step of interaction with the Lobby system is agonizing:
1. Connecting to the lobby either crawls or freezes.
2. Data transfer IF lobby connection occurs the game likewise either crawls or freezes at the command screen.
3. IF a H2H connection is established, the connection is often faulty (e.g., one of us can strat move while the other cannot.)
4. IF gameplay is possible, the game often freezes at the end of battles or strat moves, or in the middle of a battle.

As another "curiosity," neither of us EVER sees anyone else in the lobby.

So: any recommendations or are you simply going to throw H2H players to the proverbial wolves??
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mooxe
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by mooxe »

One person will reply to this thread stating they had no problems at all, nullifying your post.
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Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

Thank you mooxe, although I don't see PiTF mentioned in the games supported list ... ?

BTW, I am very aware of your longstanding support and guidance for the CC community, and would very much like to take this opportunity to thank you for all you've done.


My Best Regards,

"Oz"
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rmdesantis
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by rmdesantis »

I echo Ozy's point. I've had this problem for as long as the lobby has been in existence. It's a miserable experience to try to play multiplayer. Yes, the old point-to-point system had its challenges, but in over a decade of play we never, ever, ever, ever had the problems we have now. Ozy laid out the points quite clearly.

From my perspective, CC PITF is no longer a multiplayer experience.

Mike
Tejszd
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Tejszd »

The old multiplayer in game direct H2H connection option should never have been removed.

No problem trying something new if you thought it would be better but the old should have always remained an option as it was done and working....
Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

Absolutely agreed.

I can only imagine it was implemented as a license-management system, and surely there are better ways, and less expensive (in terms of development, testing - "What testing?" a skeptic might ask - and ongoing maintenance.


Best,

Oz
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SteveMcClaire
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by SteveMcClaire »

Hi Ozymandias2,

Sorry to hear that the lobby system is not working for you.

What you're describing sounds like lost data and the games getting out of sync (I.e. one person's game is waiting for data the other has sent, but was never received).

Can you tell me a bit about your system? What version of Windows are you using? What sort of internet connection do you have? Anti-virus / security / firewall software?

Do you and your opponent both have the 1.01 update? tm.asp?m=3288748

When you says 'Connecting to the lobby either crawls or freezes', do you mean logging in to the lobby itself, or connecting to your opponent once you're in the lobby?

Have you tried establishing a direct connection with your opponent? You can do this by having the host open port 1944 for incoming connections. If you do this the lobby server is out of the picture once you and your opponent connect to each other on the lobby screen. The game is then functioning basically the same as it has in past versions.

Thanks,

Steve
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TIK
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by TIK »

ORIGINAL: mooxe

One person will reply to this thread stating they had no problems at all, nullifying your post.

Hello! [:D]

Actually, as a "fan" of the lobby system, I just want to point out that it isn't perfect and does have problems. Besides the issue of using it to find players, and the one stated by the OP, I've identified two main problems with it -

1. Sometimes, there's lag. This could easily be fixed by showing player ping, and I've already suggested this.

2. Sometimes, connection gets aborted or games freeze. This is usually due to in-game bugs that SHOULD have been identified during multiplayer play-testing, and would have occurred if we'd had direct ip anyway so it's not a lobby system specific problem. (I'll talk about some of these bugs below.)

Otherwise, I like the lobby system.

@Ozymandias, I've had many games using the lobby system and most of them play without too much trouble. I see players at the times I go on, and several I know frequent it more often than me. The issue you seem to have it actually connecting to the system itself. Once you get there, it'll be fine.



[Bugs I mentioned before]

The only reason I'm mentioning these now is because I brought them up to make the point above. They might appear in GWTC too though. I have video footage of them too.

The first is rare, but still annoying. When a tank is damaged so its main gun is destroyed, and I order it to target an open-topped vehicle which it could damage/destroy with its machine gun, it will freeze the game. I'm confident this is a bug.

The second I'm less sure about. It is caused by using an airstrike. Yep, it seems that sometimes an airstrike will cause me or my opponent's game to freeze/crash. I'm not sure why and there's no specific reason (such as only occuring by hitting a tank or a building etc), but it makes me reluctant to use them. When I pinpoint the problem, I'll let you know.


[My thoughts/Rant]

I've only played 50+ battles in Panthers, and the first issue I identified really early on. The second is something I've concluded after ~25 games, and the lack of player ping was obvious right from the start. How the player ping and the first bug didn't get noticed I don't know, but makes me wonder if there was a lack of play testers, or if they had time to test thoroughly.

Then you have the balance issues, such as the MG42s and lack of AT for infantry platoons etc. Again, these were identified really early on. How was this not seen by the play testers?!? My conclusion is either the wrong people were chosen, there wasn't enough (if any?), or they didn't have enough time.
I have a Youtube Channel that features Close Combat and Panzer Corps Let's Plays and videos, as well as historical documentaries.
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mooxe
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by mooxe »

If they implemented the lobby for licensing issues maybe they could make it so no two identical serial numbers can play each other and preserve the original connection methods? That's essentially what its doing now, but also taking away the freedom to connect other ways.

Gameranger has been extremely convenient, it used the existing programming to connect most Close Combat games. You can set it up to see ALL hosted Close Combat games. These days it takes awhile to find an opponent. Having PITF open for hours waiting for an opponent is not reasonable. Having Gameranger open and running in the task bar, telling you if someone joined or hosted a game while your surfing the net is very reasonable! This is how it was with the Zone, GameSpy, BattleHQ and Hamachi. Some people are even using Gameranger to advertise PITF games, so they can meet someone in the PITF lobby.

Its a shame theres so few of us left playing multiplayer. And out of that group only a few here to speak up. Its impossible to know what the majority wants, but its very easy to see whats reasonable and in the best interests of online play.

Gameranger screenshot from January 6, 2014.
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Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

... "Player ping?" I haven't actually used, or known of the specific use for, a ping function since the 1980s.

Insofar as everything just being roses & daffodils, kindly re-read my post.

Steve McClaire has very kindly been in contact both here and via email, and I think we're both arriving at their being a specific synchronization issue involved, although what & if remains to be seen.

Am trying Steve's open port suggesting shortly.


Cheers,
Oz
Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

OK - used Steve's open port suggestion on the host side. We encountered a number of bizarre Lobby-related error messages:

"Unknown Error/Command" and "Lobby Error" (no details) while trying to enter the Lobby, followed by a prompt for the game's activation code.

Longest wait (twice) was 3.5 mins (1)to get into the Lobby and (2) between end of first battle and force pool choices for second. Typical wait between transitions of every sort: ~2 mins.

In short, by-passing the Lobby in this fashion has made the game playable again.

Conclusion: as NO other changes were made, the Lobby system experienced serious data synchronization problems - for at least 4 weeks.

- But, in the end, they all lived happily ever after ... (?)
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SteveMcClaire
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by SteveMcClaire »

Ozymandias2,

Glad things have improved with the direct connection. I assume the errors you mention happened when you first tried to connect to the lobby itself (going into the multi-player screen)?

Are you playing a large campaign game? Or on a slow connection? 2-3 minutes is still a fairly long time to exchange data between screens.

Steve
Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

Hi Steve,

Indeed, all lags involved the Lobby.

And yes we're playing the Grand Campaign game.

As I mentioned, we're both WiFi to fiber optic networks. ATM - admittedly a very random sampling - with 6 IE tabs open as well as Outlook and some of the usual "backrground" suspects, I'm transferring data at 7 Mbps.

Cheers,

Oz
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Stwa
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Stwa »

Careful guys, mooxe is a GameRanger salesman ... err ... salesperson.
Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

mooxe has also been at the forefront of supporting CC through his websites, efforts, thoughts, suggestions, mod hosting, advice and analysis for as long as I can remember - and I've been a CC devotee since 1999.

If mooxe is involved in any CC-related effort - and, trust me, I do not proffer online trust readily to people I've not met personally - given how much he has given the CC community, I'm more than willing to roll the proverbial dice with him.


Best,

Oz
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PipFromSlitherine
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by PipFromSlitherine »

I have rebooted the lobby at our end just in case there was some problem there. Please let me know if you see any improvements in performance.

Cheers

Pip
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Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

Thank you kindly [:)]

Our next H2H is planned for Sunday; I'll post either if problems occur or we've rescheduled, otherwise it's safe to assume that lack of a post means everything's OK.


Cheers,
Oz
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Stwa
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Stwa »

Well,

I am putting my money on the lobby re-boot. [:D] When it works, then we will all feel bad for fussin like this. [&o]

BTW, I missed the PitF sale special. So now, do I have to wait another year?
Ozymandias2
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Ozymandias2 »

Of course, suit yourself.

I'm keeping my money on the known solution that works.

Besides, unless you're lacking an opponent for H2H and are trying to find one, precisely what value does the Lobby add to the gameplay experience?
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Stwa
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

Post by Stwa »

[:D] Well, please don't think that I am messin with you. [:D]

But, the logic in your last post has me puzzled. Consider the following facts.

There are a lot more people on the planet that are NOT playing PitF than those that are.

There are a lot more PitF players that are NOT using multiplayer than those that are.

So perhaps by your own reckoning, precisely what value does PitF Multiplayer gaming (lobby or otherwise) add to the gameplay experience. [:D]

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