Hello everybody
I am a very intersted person and I do enjoy good strategy games. So I googled for something interesting for the pacific and came to this page. However the first thing that I saw is a very old-looking and overly-bureacratic forum and registration form.
Anyway I was interested in buying this game called War in the Pacific but I looked at the pricetag and I was confused.. a game made 5 years ago cost that much? That can't be. There is no reason to have such a high pricetag. So I am wondering if anyone of you does know any good retail selling the game for about 10-15$ max, for a game this age? Any hints where I can obtain this game? Of course digital-download only.. cds are a little old school. I tried to google but didnt get anywhere :-/
Outdated website and page?
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Outdated website and page?
Its not outdated webpage, this game is fully worth the asking price.
Took me over a year to finish a versus the AI game.
Against a RL player each game will be several years worth of playing.
Hints to obtain the game
Go to this website called Matrixgames, pay with a credit card.
(plus I would actually advise getting the paper manual in this case. Its solid and well worth reading)
Took me over a year to finish a versus the AI game.
Against a RL player each game will be several years worth of playing.
Hints to obtain the game
Go to this website called Matrixgames, pay with a credit card.
(plus I would actually advise getting the paper manual in this case. Its solid and well worth reading)
RE: Outdated website and page?
Cheapest game on earth, dollar per hour played.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: Outdated website and page?
Just because a game is "old" does not mean it is bad or over priced.
This is a fine complex game, that stresses logistical planning and longer term planning.
This is a fine complex game, that stresses logistical planning and longer term planning.
WW2 logistics fanboy and
Rat Rancher
Rat ranching for fun and profit, had better be fun, cause there is no profit.
Rat Rancher
Rat ranching for fun and profit, had better be fun, cause there is no profit.
RE: Outdated website and page?
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
Cheapest game on earth, dollar per hour played.
+1. I've played almost nothing else when playing solo computer games for the past 3 years. Thousands of hours by now, I'm sure, which works out to less than a dime per hour.
The only game with better value that I've played is PTO 2 for SNES, which I purchased for $35 in 2005 and probably played for a similar amount of time.
RE: Outdated website and page?
I've told this story several times, but I'll tell it again. I bought WitP-AE when it first came out in 2009 along with another game. As luck would have, I opened WitP-AE first and gave it a try. I've been hooked ever since. The other game? I never got around to it and at this point I don't even know where it is and really don't care. So to the OP's question, yes, the price of entry is relatively high compared to other games, but if you're looking for an in-depth strategy game, WitP-AE is the motherload. Buy it, try it, and you'll never regret it.
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offenseman
- Posts: 768
- Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:05 pm
- Location: Sheridan Wyoming, USA
RE: Outdated website and page?
Complex game, great depth and detail, steep learning curve, great community support. Well worth the cost
Sometimes things said in Nitwit sound very different in English.
RE: Outdated website and page?
The original War in the Pacific had its price cut recently (by a third?), and was formerly available much cheaper from other suppliers. But Matrix Games are the only supplier of Admirals Edition and seem to have no plans to cut the price.
RE: Outdated website and page?
No discounts my friend but I promise you that it is the best you will ever own....
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: Outdated website and page?
We should also point out that the game may be a few years old but it is still being supported, which you can't say about many others!
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HansBolter
- Posts: 7191
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Outdated website and page?
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
Cheapest game on earth, dollar per hour played.
+1. I've played almost nothing else when playing solo computer games for the past 3 years. Thousands of hours by now, I'm sure, which works out to less than a dime per hour.
The only game with better value that I've played is PTO 2 for SNES, which I purchased for $35 in 2005 and probably played for a similar amount of time.
PTO 2... still play to this day [&o][&o]
Any Operation Europe by any chance?
Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.
Dez caught it
Dez caught it
RE: Outdated website and page?
If you asking about the OP, then no.
Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.
Dez caught it
Dez caught it
RE: Outdated website and page?
ORIGINAL: CaptDave
We should also point out that the game may be a few years old but it is still being supported, which you can't say about many others!
This is true. The 'betas' are still very much ongoing.
RE: Outdated website and page?
This game isn't available for 10-15$ anywhere legally and no one here will help you pirate it. If your looking for a free or 5-10 dollar game of the pacific war then check some of the mods for some of the games you own someone might have made one. Their is a free version of PACWAR for download on Matrix as well. Located Here: http://www.matrixgames.com/games/pacifi ... nloads.asp
RE: Outdated website and page?
HansBolter: I don't think he's a troll. It's a legitimate question.
Others have said most of what I would say about the original game, but I would like to add my 2 cents. Most 5 year old computer games are in the $5 bargain bin because of the way they are marketed more than anything else. The marketing departments of big game companies like Hasbro and its divisions think of computer games in the same way movie studios think about movies or record companies used to think about new releases in the most popular music categories. They look to make a short, quick profit from selling a lot of copies in a short period of time after initial release, then they will flog the remaining copies off at a discount to get those who were too cheap and/or too wise to pay full price when it first came out.
The bulk of computer games in the mass market sell hundreds of thousands to millions of copies in a few weeks, then a trickle of income after that. The interest from the public also is very high for a couple of months, then falls off a cliff. There are only a few mass market games that have held the public's attention longer than that. A lot of people play the latest sequel to Grand Theft Auto, the Sims, etc., but virtually nobody plays the original game or early sequels. They are only attracted by the latest and greatest.
Outside the arena of the mega game companies are more specialty games that have a much smaller audience. This was true for the old table top gaming market too. Back in the 1970s and 80s there was a cottage industry of table top wargames led by Avalon Hill closely followed by SPI which then had a gaggle of tiny companies. These companies made wargames that sometimes came with thick books for instructions. Back then Hasbro wouldn't release a game unless it knew that it would sell a minimum of 100,000 copies a year. Avalon Hill's biggest hit sold about 10,000 copies over its lifetime.
Matrix is sort of the same place as Avalon Hill in the table top business back in the 80s. It is probably the biggest wargame maker, but its biggest seller is dwarfed by Hasbro's big sellers. If you go back further into the grognard world, you will find a number of small companies making computer wargames. Some of those have been out longer than WitP AE and they still sell for full price because that's the market.
Matrix does have sales from time to time and AE has been discounted during some of them. However it goes back to its original price. Matrix has a different approach to the market because while their product and Hasbro's are both computer games, they serve very different markets with very different sales expectations.
As others have pointed out, most games lose developer support after a few months. AE still has one programmer assigned to ongoing bug fixes and the occasional feature addition. Add to that, there is a very active modification community adding new scenarios. Some of those doing mods are original developers, so they know the game intimately. And then there is this forum, which is made up of people who play the game frequently if not daily. They know the game inside and out and can answer just about any question.
The WitP family and especially AE are the most in depth and ambitious (from a data stand point) approach to the Pacific War to date. The AE team redid the entire OOB (which was already better than any other Pacific War game ever made) to be as accurate as humanly possible. Finding the data to make the details of the Japanese OOB accurate was not easy. Some of it required getting original Japanese documents translated.
If you already know something about the Pacific War, playing this game will definitely round out your education. I played many of those Avalon Hill games back in the 80s and before that I was reading every book I could find on WW II. My father had a large collection himself and I went through his entire library as a kid as well as the local library's collection.
Playing this game still taught me many things I didn't know about the war with Japan. In some cases it led me to search out new reading material on subjects I didn't even know existed. In other ways it has taught me the logistics of conducting the war in a way no book could do.
I once had a discussion with a Singaporian who said she grew up being taught that the British abandoned Singapore to its fate and didn't bother to liberate Singapore until after the collapse of Japan. Technically true, but there were real world logistical reasons why Singapore was not savable. From playing the game I had a depth of understanding of why and she came to a deeper understanding of why Singapore was left to its fate. It had nothing to do with racism on the part of Churchill's government and everything to do with geography and logistics. The British army simply couldn't get within 1000 miles of the place by VJ Day.
Anyway a lot longer than I intended, but if you have an interest in this period in history, this is a great game to have. If you like a game with a very high replayability level, this is also a great game to have. Even against the AI which can be broken by most experienced players (but will probably kick your backside the first time or two you play), you can still get enjoyment out of playing the game over and over again. There is an active community of people who play by e-mail here and they continue to be challenged by live players.
Bill
Others have said most of what I would say about the original game, but I would like to add my 2 cents. Most 5 year old computer games are in the $5 bargain bin because of the way they are marketed more than anything else. The marketing departments of big game companies like Hasbro and its divisions think of computer games in the same way movie studios think about movies or record companies used to think about new releases in the most popular music categories. They look to make a short, quick profit from selling a lot of copies in a short period of time after initial release, then they will flog the remaining copies off at a discount to get those who were too cheap and/or too wise to pay full price when it first came out.
The bulk of computer games in the mass market sell hundreds of thousands to millions of copies in a few weeks, then a trickle of income after that. The interest from the public also is very high for a couple of months, then falls off a cliff. There are only a few mass market games that have held the public's attention longer than that. A lot of people play the latest sequel to Grand Theft Auto, the Sims, etc., but virtually nobody plays the original game or early sequels. They are only attracted by the latest and greatest.
Outside the arena of the mega game companies are more specialty games that have a much smaller audience. This was true for the old table top gaming market too. Back in the 1970s and 80s there was a cottage industry of table top wargames led by Avalon Hill closely followed by SPI which then had a gaggle of tiny companies. These companies made wargames that sometimes came with thick books for instructions. Back then Hasbro wouldn't release a game unless it knew that it would sell a minimum of 100,000 copies a year. Avalon Hill's biggest hit sold about 10,000 copies over its lifetime.
Matrix is sort of the same place as Avalon Hill in the table top business back in the 80s. It is probably the biggest wargame maker, but its biggest seller is dwarfed by Hasbro's big sellers. If you go back further into the grognard world, you will find a number of small companies making computer wargames. Some of those have been out longer than WitP AE and they still sell for full price because that's the market.
Matrix does have sales from time to time and AE has been discounted during some of them. However it goes back to its original price. Matrix has a different approach to the market because while their product and Hasbro's are both computer games, they serve very different markets with very different sales expectations.
As others have pointed out, most games lose developer support after a few months. AE still has one programmer assigned to ongoing bug fixes and the occasional feature addition. Add to that, there is a very active modification community adding new scenarios. Some of those doing mods are original developers, so they know the game intimately. And then there is this forum, which is made up of people who play the game frequently if not daily. They know the game inside and out and can answer just about any question.
The WitP family and especially AE are the most in depth and ambitious (from a data stand point) approach to the Pacific War to date. The AE team redid the entire OOB (which was already better than any other Pacific War game ever made) to be as accurate as humanly possible. Finding the data to make the details of the Japanese OOB accurate was not easy. Some of it required getting original Japanese documents translated.
If you already know something about the Pacific War, playing this game will definitely round out your education. I played many of those Avalon Hill games back in the 80s and before that I was reading every book I could find on WW II. My father had a large collection himself and I went through his entire library as a kid as well as the local library's collection.
Playing this game still taught me many things I didn't know about the war with Japan. In some cases it led me to search out new reading material on subjects I didn't even know existed. In other ways it has taught me the logistics of conducting the war in a way no book could do.
I once had a discussion with a Singaporian who said she grew up being taught that the British abandoned Singapore to its fate and didn't bother to liberate Singapore until after the collapse of Japan. Technically true, but there were real world logistical reasons why Singapore was not savable. From playing the game I had a depth of understanding of why and she came to a deeper understanding of why Singapore was left to its fate. It had nothing to do with racism on the part of Churchill's government and everything to do with geography and logistics. The British army simply couldn't get within 1000 miles of the place by VJ Day.
Anyway a lot longer than I intended, but if you have an interest in this period in history, this is a great game to have. If you like a game with a very high replayability level, this is also a great game to have. Even against the AI which can be broken by most experienced players (but will probably kick your backside the first time or two you play), you can still get enjoyment out of playing the game over and over again. There is an active community of people who play by e-mail here and they continue to be challenged by live players.
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: Outdated website and page?
To put it in more measurable terms, think of how much you pay to go to a cinema these days.... then compare that to the price of the game. Then weigh in with the price per hour of enjoyment. The movie might be $5 per hour is your lucky. This game will give you hundreds or maybe even more hours of fun and enjoyment for the price, which would reduce it per hour to pennies!!!! The value is SO worth it........
RE: Outdated website and page?
ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
Cheapest game on earth, dollar per hour played.
+1. I've played almost nothing else when playing solo computer games for the past 3 years. Thousands of hours by now, I'm sure, which works out to less than a dime per hour.
The only game with better value that I've played is PTO 2 for SNES, which I purchased for $35 in 2005 and probably played for a similar amount of time.
PTO 2... still play to this day [&o][&o]
Any Operation Europe by any chance?
I still play it on my tablet when I'm bored somewhere and not reading. Like on flights. I remember a PC version back around 2000 or so, but don't know what happened to it. It's inferior in almost every respect to the SNES version anyway, which I play on an emulator now.
RE: Outdated website and page?
Since I have been following this forum (not that long), the manual has been reprinted twice.
I don't know how many is in a print run, but that in itself is a sign of active sales.
The community here is fantastic for help.
I don't know how many is in a print run, but that in itself is a sign of active sales.
The community here is fantastic for help.
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LargeSlowTarget
- Posts: 4805
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
RE: Outdated website and page?
Just to add my support - best game ever and worth every cent. I work in PC games distribution and have free access to hundreds of mass market titles both older and brand-new. Yet, 80% of my playing time is devoted to WitP AE.
