Human wave failed attempt #9

[laska2k8]

I feel a little bit upset, but I didn't get rid of this campaign scenario.
Whatever tactic I choose it ends always with a soviet victory, it seems a never ending wave of men, a flood.

Falling back it's a bloody mess, even if tried earlier or later. Also firing artillery reduce a little bit the advance, but sooner or later they arrive.....

[Barthheart]

Please read this thread ... it might help.

tm.asp?m=3547396

[markhwalker]

Yep, it is definitely a boss scenario. Vance (Bartheart) is a great player, but I would contradict him in this. Don't waste any fire on the Soviet Leaders. If they Rally troops, so be it. The troops they rally might not have time t return to the fight. Never, ever, fire on a single Russian squad unless you need to do so to avoid an unwanted melee. Always fire on stacks.

Use the Slayer Skill Wisely. H9, I9, and G9 are all good locations. Remember, after the Slayer marker is placed, it has about a 40% chance of attacking anyone that moves in the placement hex or the six adjacent hexes. Artillery... use it at or near the end of a turn. Tom's AI is smart enough to walk around a barrage, so try to drop it AFTER the units have moved, right on top of a bunch of them. Alternately, make it your first action. You know where those Soviets start, drop it right on top of their heads. They don't mind.

Pulling back... only do it after all Russian units have committed, ESPECIALLY those two heavy machineguns. If you do it before all the Russians have moved/fired they will Op Fire and cut down your retreating units.

Finally, keep the sausage guy safe. Don't expose him to return fire, and avoid melees with his stack.

Hope this helps.

[laska2k8]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Please read this thread ... it might help.

tm.asp?m=3547396

finally I got it (three more attempt and some saved game help to complete the task).
I retreated to the second defense line in the first turn, just waiting for the soviets to come and then holding fire until they were near the dangerous line.
I used the artillery in the middle and to soften the right flank attack when there was a consistent number of enemy units.
Also smoke helps to shield Wurtz from flanking fire.
What a challenging game.

[mh1066]

Granted, it is all a matter of taste, but I personally found these tower defense type scenarios the least interesting (a similar one shows up a little later in the campaign, I believe it was called Hedgehog). I ended up just turning down the difficulty from Hard to Intro just to get through it quickly. If there was a "skip this one" option I would have selected it. I'm sure others have a different opinion however.

[Tom Proudfoot]

Just FYI, I think Hedgehog is probably the hardest scenario in the game. Easy street from now on for you! [;)]

[mh1066]

Frustration is exacerbated since the pre-phase doesn't allow you to button-up the tanks during setup and the first impulse always hits the exposed crew with small arms fire.

[baloo7777]

I ended up just turning down the difficulty from Hard to Intro just to get through it quickly. If there was a "skip this one" option I would have selected it.

Thanks mh1066, as I agree not my favorite type and frustrating after several tries and not able to succeed. I want to move on so will try what you did.

[jonj01]

This scenario " the human wave" on hard settings can only be won ..if two conditions are met.

1) you do everything absolutely right

2) you get good dice rolls.

If you get some bad dice rolls or the soviets generate a couple heros you lose. The heros can rally shaken squads. I fired on one stack of three squads and generated two heros in one hex. Game over right there. Without hero generation the scenario would be balanced. With hero generation...you are gonna have a lot of problems ...as the shaken squads dont have to retreat far. Just to the nearest hero. Also the heros 6mp can lock up a stack of your troops very easily in melee. Once engaged in melee...its all over for that stack. If you get one of those heros that double the range of the squads stacked with him..you can just forget about any retreating.

On the up side the AI played better in this scenario than any other scenarios I've played so far.

[jonj01]

-snip-

[mh1066]

Scenarios such as this one do not show the impulse driven system of LnL in the best light. As the system is designed, MGs are one-off use support weapons which is contrary to how they would tend to be used. MGs (certainly one mounted on a tripod) would be placed to create fire lanes and kill zones. So for example a MG firing down a street (or as the case the "Wave" scenario an open field) wouldn't really target one spot, but rather a zone killing anything that passed into it. For all the advantages an impulse system like LnL provides, its weakness is how you can game the system with tactics that are not always realistic (such as feeding units piecemeal across a zone to soak up an opponent's impulse activations). In the game mortars and artillery leave residual fire effects causing potential damage for others entering the hex...perhaps adding this for MG fire would mitigate the one-off effect. Or another possibility could be to use the rally phase to establish a fire lane with a tripod mounted MG.

[Gizuria]

A turn-based game, Heroes of Stalingrad retains Lock 'n Load's engaging impulse system while adding features, such as flanking fire, hidden units, and residual machine gun fire, that would just be too fiddly for the boardgame.

From the product page, it would appear that the computer version is supposed to have MG residual fire but I don't see it in the game yet. It's true that I'm still fresh with this game and have maybe missed it, not examining the options at the bottom careffully enough when I'm playing. Maybe we'll see it in the game at some point soon if we remind Mark about it [8D]

[Missouri_Rebel]

Well there is a card for it, I think Slayer. Once fired the SMC will lay a residual fire counter where any unit that moves into that hex or adjacent is subject to another attack as long as the SMC makes a check on their rally value. It is a great card when used at the right place. Bottlenecks turn deadly.

[Gizuria]

You are probably right there. But in all my games so far, I've only seen the Slayer card appear once. I wonder if it would be possible to give the MG SW team, NOT the SW counter, a capability similar to that possessed by the Mortar SW team, to put down a Fire for Effect counter in the hex.

[mh1066]

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Well there is a card for it, I think Slayer. Once fired the SMC will lay a residual fire counter where any unit that moves into that hex or adjacent is subject to another attack as long as the SMC makes a check on their rally value. It is a great card when used at the right place. Bottlenecks turn deadly.

Exactly, and think about it - one guy (hero though he be...) with a SMG is able to create a better killing zone than a mounted MG which shoots once for his impulse and then takes a nap! [&:]

[markhwalker]

If you get some bad dice rolls or the soviets generate a couple heros you lose.

It's difficult, but I don't think this is true. I could have given the card to a half-squad if it would have let everyone sleep better at night.

[gargoil]

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

If you get some bad dice rolls or the soviets generate a couple heros you lose.

It's difficult, but I don't think this is true. I could have given the card to a half-squad if it would have let everyone sleep better at night.

I do feel heroes are quite powerful in this game. One hero that finds a way to dive into that key enemy hex with their main fire base will shut it down for the entire turn, as well as maybe taking down one of its squads. But, in any case, I got thru the Human Wave on my 4th try. I retired to the fox holes turn 1, except for the slayer and the one forward squad on the right. Then I squeezed the Soviets between FFEs and Slayer for a couple of turns, and just outlasted the rest, only having Wurtz and HMG at the end.

[jonj01]

The "one last time" skill card is a killer if one of the many soviet heros draw that card.
In one attempt last night I had well over 20 soviet units 'shaken" and it looked like I would win the scenario on hard setting. But on turn 5 I fired into a hex of two soviet squads...broke one and generated a hero whose skill card was "one last time".

The next soviet rally phase took four minutes and I was pretty sure most of the squads got 2 not 1 rally attempt(might want to check this for a bug). 18 soviet units, some adjacent to my defensive positions...rallied.

As soon as you see this skill card appear for the soviets...just concede...it will save you some headache.

[jonj01]

This scenario is now deleted from my map folder. There are two soviet heros on the field at ALL TIME. There would be more ...but you cant have more than two on the map at a time. This scenario generates a lot of soviet heros.
In this scenario, The soviet heros are like heads on the hydra...as soon as you kill one, another pops up and half of those you generate have a firepower of 2. So a complete crap squad with a moral of 4 and a firepower of 1 can generate a hero who cant shake and has a firepower of 2. As far as I can tell wounding them doesnt do a thing to them except place them one step closer to elimination.

Played the scenrario on Introductory setting and by the time the scenario was over I had killed 12 yes thats right 12 soviet hereos and 44 thats right 44 soviet squads. 12 heros 44 squads vs 5 squads and a hero is not balanced. The machine guns are useless as the impulse system has no penetrating fire. ASL has a similar scenario "The hedhog of Piepsk" but that is 32 squads vs 8 and you have penetrating fire to help and the soviets have to cover a much greater distance.

Screw this scenario...you shouldnt have to get a ton of good rolls to win a scenario. And you shouldn't automatically lose if your one super hero gets killed.

Bad Bad Badly balanced scenario. If the designers point was to make the player play the scenerios of a campaign several time.. good job you have.

Delete it from your map folder ...not only is it unbalanced...its boring...all you do the whole game is press the pass button and listen to some 500 soviet soldiers running.

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: jonj01

...
Played the scenrario on Introductory setting and by the time the scenario was over I had killed 12 yes thats right 12 soviet hereos and 44 thats right 44 soviet squads. ...

Why are you killing so many soviet squads? All you have to do is shake them.
Kill leaders and heroes but don't bother firing at shaken squads.

If you are firing a lot at shaken squads then yes, your chances of creating a hero are going to go way up, and you will make the scenario harder than it is.