AV's and land based planes
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AV's and land based planes
I’m sure this has been covered but my searching hasn’t found anything.
I need to assign some land based fighters to some far-flung islands but don’t want to waste the time hauling a bunch of base forces out into the middle of nowhere. Will AV’s, AVD’s and the like count as aviation support for land based aircraft or do I need to send the BF’s along for the ride?
Thanks ahead
I need to assign some land based fighters to some far-flung islands but don’t want to waste the time hauling a bunch of base forces out into the middle of nowhere. Will AV’s, AVD’s and the like count as aviation support for land based aircraft or do I need to send the BF’s along for the ride?
Thanks ahead
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
RE: AV's and land based planes
You will need land based AS, tenders only work for planes with floats.
RE: AV's and land based planes
LoBaron is right... unfortunately... But I've never understood the rationale for this, can someone step in here? Is it based upon type of plane, parts for one will not fit another, etc? Because a mechanic would be able to work on various "types" with floats or without..... thoughts?
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- Posts: 164
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:07 am
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RE: AV's and land based planes
I figured. You can never have your cake and eat it too with this game...
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
RE: AV's and land based planes
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
LoBaron is right... unfortunately... But I've never understood the rationale for this, can someone step in here? Is it based upon type of plane, parts for one will not fit another, etc? Because a mechanic would be able to work on various "types" with floats or without..... thoughts?
You're correct about a mechanic's capabilities, but I don't think that is the reason.
If I have a land based AC, I will roll it into a hangar to fix it, not dockside to an auxiliary ship... and vice versa. I won't roll a float plane into a
hangar if I can keep it in the harbor and pull up next to a ship...
AV/AVP/AVDs are specifically designed ships for maintaining float planes... whether they're patrol, bomber, or fighter doesn't matter.
These ships have cranes and facilities on the ships to lift float planes on and fix them right then and there, and don't require land bases facilities.
I am SURE they were used in major bases as well, but that is why they work in remote areas without the major base facilities. They have everything they need on the ship.
Much like an AS is for subs...
A good example is a mobile slaughter unit. Everything you need right there without sending it to the packing plant. Guys make a very good living with these btw.
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RE: AV's and land based planes
Not to mention some planes required there to be a port as they didn't have any wheels! I don't think that's modeled all that well in the game, but I could be wrong. I do know that some of the PBY models and the Australian S-23, for example, aren't able to pick up troops from a hex without a coastline (the game gives you a message, even), but I don't think there's anything preventing you from basing those PBYs and S-23s at a landlocked base with no water... Never tried, though.
RE: AV's and land based planes
The game engine will not allow you to place float plane (patrol or otherwise) in a non water hex. I've tried. You can't even ship supplies, etc, by such craft to non water hexes. But to some extent you are proving my point in that Amphibious aircraft (those that can do water AND land as they have wheels) are able to be wheeled out and worked on, thus they should be covered by the land based aviation support points... and they are not IIRC.ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Not to mention some planes required there to be a port as they didn't have any wheels! I don't think that's modeled all that well in the game, but I could be wrong. I do know that some of the PBY models and the Australian S-23, for example, aren't able to pick up troops from a hex without a coastline (the game gives you a message, even), but I don't think there's anything preventing you from basing those PBYs and S-23s at a landlocked base with no water... Never tried, though.
RE: AV's and land based planes
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
The game engine will not allow you to place float plane (patrol or otherwise) in a non water hex. I've tried. You can't even ship supplies, etc, by such craft to non water hexes. But to some extent you are proving my point in that Amphibious aircraft (those that can do water AND land as they have wheels) are able to be wheeled out and worked on, thus they should be covered by the land based aviation support points... and they are not IIRC.ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Not to mention some planes required there to be a port as they didn't have any wheels! I don't think that's modeled all that well in the game, but I could be wrong. I do know that some of the PBY models and the Australian S-23, for example, aren't able to pick up troops from a hex without a coastline (the game gives you a message, even), but I don't think there's anything preventing you from basing those PBYs and S-23s at a landlocked base with no water... Never tried, though.
Actually this is very well modelled in the game.
An example is the PBY-5 and its amphib version, the PBY-5A. Both can be supported by AV tenders, but only the 5A is able to land at inland bases while the PBY-5 is restricted to ports.
RE: AV's and land based planes
well, how do you bring ship to land or force land based plane to float at water ? well technicaly it is posible to dimabtle all suport equpment from ship and move it to land...but at thjis point that ship will lose ability to become planes suúport ship, adn well it will be realy hard work to do it, idealy in sufficently big port, but well if you have that big port here, it is liely that you wil here base forces for all tasks right, as it will be base of some importance.ORIGINAL: dr.hal
LoBaron is right... unfortunately... But I've never understood the rationale for this, can someone step in here? Is it based upon type of plane, parts for one will not fit another, etc? Because a mechanic would be able to work on various "types" with floats or without..... thoughts?
RE: AV's and land based planes
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
The game engine will not allow you to place float plane (patrol or otherwise) in a non water hex. I've tried. You can't even ship supplies, etc, by such craft to non water hexes. But to some extent you are proving my point in that Amphibious aircraft (those that can do water AND land as they have wheels) are able to be wheeled out and worked on, thus they should be covered by the land based aviation support points... and they are not IIRC.ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Not to mention some planes required there to be a port as they didn't have any wheels! I don't think that's modeled all that well in the game, but I could be wrong. I do know that some of the PBY models and the Australian S-23, for example, aren't able to pick up troops from a hex without a coastline (the game gives you a message, even), but I don't think there's anything preventing you from basing those PBYs and S-23s at a landlocked base with no water... Never tried, though.
well, for amhibous planes they should be able to be mainated by booth parties - ships and land-based forces, if not, it is one overlook in this game, since these planes can "sail" to ship for repairs.
For water-only planes not able to be serviced by land-based it is fully ok, as you dont move with boat on land too. that reason why they cant land on land (well, technicaly YES, but take off will be great problem )
RE: AV's and land based planes
Exactly!!! This begs the question, then why is the 5A not supported by land based air support squads? It can roll into a hanger, doesn't need cranes, etc... but yet it is not supported and must have an AV. So in truth "wheels" or no wheels is not the differentiator in terms of what aircraft are supported by what air support units.ORIGINAL: LoBaron
the PBY-5 and its amphib version, the PBY-5A. Both can be supported by AV tenders, but only the 5A is able to land at inland bases while the PBY-5 is restricted to ports.
RE: AV's and land based planes
Well yeah, there are amphibious planes and then there are seaplanes. Obviously you can't wheel a seaplane up next to the hangar. Honestly, I've never tried to move the S-23 or amphib versions of the Catalina to a base that doesn't have water. They're way too useful on island bases or other places without an airfield.
That said, I think Av Supp DOES work for float planes if there is no AVP/AV/AVD/CS present at the base. I'd have to test it, but I'm fairly certain. Of course I could be entirely off-base. I'm going by what the base information screen tells me - adding FPs adds to the Av. Supp. Required line, so I assume that standard aviation support can help them out.
That said, I think Av Supp DOES work for float planes if there is no AVP/AV/AVD/CS present at the base. I'd have to test it, but I'm fairly certain. Of course I could be entirely off-base. I'm going by what the base information screen tells me - adding FPs adds to the Av. Supp. Required line, so I assume that standard aviation support can help them out.
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RE: AV's and land based planes
To my mind I think they should cover each other. Obviously, I have no direct knowledge of how it was done in the Pacific but I imagine a AV docking, bunch of guys with tool bags running down the gangplank and ripping the engine covers off of broken down planes…
Vice versa with amphibious, pull em up on the beach, fix em and push em back in…
I’m sure this MUCH over simplifies the troubles that actual mechanics had back then…
Vice versa with amphibious, pull em up on the beach, fix em and push em back in…
I’m sure this MUCH over simplifies the troubles that actual mechanics had back then…
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
RE: AV's and land based planes
If that proves to be true PLEASE let us know.... THANKS.ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I think Av Supp DOES work for float planes if there is no AVP/AV/AVD/CS present at the base. I'd have to test it, but I'm fairly certain.
RE: AV's and land based planes
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
If that proves to be true PLEASE let us know.... THANKS.ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I think Av Supp DOES work for float planes if there is no AVP/AV/AVD/CS present at the base. I'd have to test it, but I'm fairly certain.
Sorry I missed that question before. It was never stated that land based AS does NOT support seaplanes. It does.
RE: AV's and land based planes
Seaplane bases , or air bases with seaplane facilities can fix seaplanes ashore. This by using "beaching gear" (slap on temporary wheels) that allow the seaplane to wheel ashore up the ramp or even across a beach. You then wheel it to the hanger and do what you need to do. Then tow it back the water and launch it back in (sort of like launching a boat off a trailer). Naval Air Stations that used to have seaplane facilities (Like NAS Jacksonville, Patuxtant river , Oak Harbor, Pearl Harbor , and many others still have ramps. But all you really needed was access to water.
Tenders , worked in an anchorage. They had specialized boats, lighters and other water craft, and often could hoist the plane aboard.
Tenders , worked in an anchorage. They had specialized boats, lighters and other water craft, and often could hoist the plane aboard.
RE: AV's and land based planes
ORIGINAL: slane
I’m sure this has been covered but my searching hasn’t found anything.
I need to assign some land based fighters to some far-flung islands but don’t want to waste the time hauling a bunch of base forces out into the middle of nowhere. Will AV’s, AVD’s and the like count as aviation support for land based aircraft or do I need to send the BF’s along for the ride?
Thanks ahead
If you don't already know this you can take care of it by using a Mavis (PBY or any seaplane, not floatplane) to fly some AV to a remote base to support A/C that way. When done just pick 'em up. And, yes ground based aviation support will support seasplanes/floatplanes.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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RE: AV's and land based planes
ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: slane
I’m sure this has been covered but my searching hasn’t found anything.
I need to assign some land based fighters to some far-flung islands but don’t want to waste the time hauling a bunch of base forces out into the middle of nowhere. Will AV’s, AVD’s and the like count as aviation support for land based aircraft or do I need to send the BF’s along for the ride?
Thanks ahead
If you don't already know this you can take care of it by using a Mavis (PBY or any seaplane, not floatplane) to fly some AV to a remote base to support A/C that way. When done just pick 'em up. And, yes ground based aviation support will support seasplanes/floatplanes.
That’s actually a pretty good idea. I’ve done it before right after I’ve taken a base but hadn’t thought about using it in this case. It would allow me to use air HQ’s to work several bases instead of just one.
Thanks rustysi
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
RE: AV's and land based planes
Any time, I've gotten' so much help from this forum I'll never be able to repay.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: AV's and land based planes
well, they surely do some work on land based planes..but you run into great troubles when you need to use any tool which needs electicity, as stated by op - he wanted to use them on "deserted" islands. Not to mention if you will need some heavy machinery to move/lift up disambled plane parts.ORIGINAL: slane
To my mind I think they should cover each other. Obviously, I have no direct knowledge of how it was done in the Pacific but I imagine a AV docking, bunch of guys with tool bags running down the gangplank and ripping the engine covers off of broken down planes…
Vice versa with amphibious, pull em up on the beach, fix em and push em back in…
I’m sure this MUCH over simplifies the troubles that actual mechanics had back then…
So imho they should only maintain planes in flying condition, repair them ? not.