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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 7:46:59 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to daferg)
Post #: 121
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 7:51:55 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: kimsand

quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

For a game of this size and scope, $99 is arguably ON PAR with other huge grognard games that Matrix has released.  It was a steal when they released it (AND you got books!)

But people complained due to customs/additional shipping etc, and asked for a DL only version.

They gave it to you.  End of story, guys.  Sheesh.



What are you talking about... They still put on taxes which brings this game that has NO AI up to a total of
about 140$ us

Someone, dunno WHO, but someone has done some seriously wrong Price/demand calculations.

There are games out there that has cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and they sell for 70-80 bucks,
and said with deep respect for this one mans huge effort, it have not cost a fraction of that.

If they actually sold it at a resonable Price, more people would buy it, i know i certainly would. This would create
more revenue and they would earn more Money AND they would have a lot of very satisfied and loyal customers, instead
of no customers and small income.

warspite1

Can you do us a favour please? Its easy to spout anything that comes into your head and present it as fact, but how about you provide some facts to support what you say?

On what basis do you matter of factly state the price/demand calculations are wrong?

On what basis do you matter of factly state that the price charged is not reasonable?

What prey tell, is a "reasonable price"? Reasonable for who? Matrix? The customers? The developer? ADG? who? Please confirm the economics of the deal to justify such comments and enable us to understand.

What research have you done such that you know a drop in price guarantees a higher revenue - where is that price, and how many people will buy at which price? If my local Mercedes dealer sold a CLK at a reasonable price I know I would certainly buy it. The price I could afford it at would bankrupt Mercedes, but hey, lets not let cold economic facts of life get in the way.

The game is the game at the moment, warts and all, good and bad. How will getting more customers, guarantee more very satisfied and loyal customers - what like Dabrion you mean?

No customers and no income? Please explain further.

Finally, if dropping price is a retailers nirvana for happy, prosperous trading, please tell us why any company goes out of business.

Thank-you. I look forward to your detailed response


Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 122
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 7:57:20 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....



There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 123
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 7:59:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: kimsand

quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

For a game of this size and scope, $99 is arguably ON PAR with other huge grognard games that Matrix has released.  It was a steal when they released it (AND you got books!)

But people complained due to customs/additional shipping etc, and asked for a DL only version.

They gave it to you.  End of story, guys.  Sheesh.



What are you talking about... They still put on taxes which brings this game that has NO AI up to a total of
about 140$ us

Someone, dunno WHO, but someone has done some seriously wrong Price/demand calculations.

There are games out there that has cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and they sell for 70-80 bucks,
and said with deep respect for this one mans huge effort, it have not cost a fraction of that.

If they actually sold it at a resonable Price, more people would buy it, i know i certainly would. This would create
more revenue and they would earn more Money AND they would have a lot of very satisfied and loyal customers, instead
of no customers and small income.

warspite1

Can you do us a favour please? Its easy to spout anything that comes into your head and present it as fact, but how about you provide some facts to support what you say?

On what basis do you matter of factly state the price/demand calculations are wrong?

On what basis do you matter of factly state that the price charged is not reasonable?

What prey tell, is a "reasonable price"? Reasonable for who? Matrix? The customers? The developer? ADG? who? Please confirm the economics of the deal to justify such comments and enable us to understand.

What research have you done such that you know a drop in price guarantees a higher revenue - where is that price, and how many people will buy at which price? If my local Mercedes dealer sold a CLK at a reasonable price I know I would certainly buy it. The price I could afford it at would bankrupt Mercedes, but hey, lets not let cold economic facts of life get in the way.

The game is the game at the moment, warts and all, good and bad. How will getting more customers, guarantee more very satisfied and loyal customers - what like Dabrion you mean?

No customers and no income? Please explain further.

Finally, if dropping price is a retailers nirvana for happy, prosperous trading, please tell us why any company goes out of business.

Thank-you. I look forward to your detailed response


Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.
warspite1

Quelle surprise!

I never went to university so lets make sure I have this right.

A poster comes on matter of factly stating that Matrix has the price completely wrong - such that they are unreasonable and, as a result, have no customers and no income.

I ask said poster to back up said "facts" - and that's out of line?

Right.....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 124
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:03:56 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....



There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 125
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:09:05 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: kimsand

quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

For a game of this size and scope, $99 is arguably ON PAR with other huge grognard games that Matrix has released.  It was a steal when they released it (AND you got books!)

But people complained due to customs/additional shipping etc, and asked for a DL only version.

They gave it to you.  End of story, guys.  Sheesh.



What are you talking about... They still put on taxes which brings this game that has NO AI up to a total of
about 140$ us

Someone, dunno WHO, but someone has done some seriously wrong Price/demand calculations.

There are games out there that has cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and they sell for 70-80 bucks,
and said with deep respect for this one mans huge effort, it have not cost a fraction of that.

If they actually sold it at a resonable Price, more people would buy it, i know i certainly would. This would create
more revenue and they would earn more Money AND they would have a lot of very satisfied and loyal customers, instead
of no customers and small income.

warspite1

Can you do us a favour please? Its easy to spout anything that comes into your head and present it as fact, but how about you provide some facts to support what you say?

On what basis do you matter of factly state the price/demand calculations are wrong?

On what basis do you matter of factly state that the price charged is not reasonable?

What prey tell, is a "reasonable price"? Reasonable for who? Matrix? The customers? The developer? ADG? who? Please confirm the economics of the deal to justify such comments and enable us to understand.

What research have you done such that you know a drop in price guarantees a higher revenue - where is that price, and how many people will buy at which price? If my local Mercedes dealer sold a CLK at a reasonable price I know I would certainly buy it. The price I could afford it at would bankrupt Mercedes, but hey, lets not let cold economic facts of life get in the way.

The game is the game at the moment, warts and all, good and bad. How will getting more customers, guarantee more very satisfied and loyal customers - what like Dabrion you mean?

No customers and no income? Please explain further.

Finally, if dropping price is a retailers nirvana for happy, prosperous trading, please tell us why any company goes out of business.

Thank-you. I look forward to your detailed response


Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.
warspite1

Quelle surprise!

I never went to university so lets make sure I have this right.

A poster comes on matter of factly stating that Matrix has the price completely wrong - such that they are unreasonable and, as a result, have no customers and no income.

I ask said poster to back up said "facts" - and that's out of line?

Right.....



Yes. You don't have any facts either which supports the way Matrix set his prices. You don't know the contract with ADG, you know exactly the same as the poster, which is absolutely nothing, same as the poster who gives his opinion about the price of this game.

I could turn all those question around to you, asking you for the details to prove that you are right. You can't do so either.

Therefore, it's Matrix who can react, not anyone else. You aren't employed by Matrix and I don't think it wise to argue about the game price. It's set and that's it. And anyone here might say it's too high and Matrix isn't therefore maximising profits out of sales. That's their opinion and we should respect this and not ask questions which can't be answered by you (for proving the price is right) or by the other person (for proving the price is wrong).


_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 126
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:10:55 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....



There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.



Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 127
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:20:59 PM   
Kimse123

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline
Wow. Warspite Im sorry to have stepped on your toes there, not my intention at all.

Im not stating anything as a fact, im stating my opinion and asumptions,
which i hope im entiteld to, and as i also wrote, i have the deepest respect
for the guy WHO went through this massive task and made this game come to the PC.

I am dissapointed in MatrixGames, i would have loved to buy the game and relive old days
but i feel the pricing is extreme for a game, which if you compare it to practically
all the other games on the market lack in a very important feature it has no AI.

I was a Alpha/beta tester on the first installment of Computer WIF, and ive followed this
game regularly since then.

BUT despite all this, i would have bought it supported it and played it, staying with the community
and Watch the game mature through patches IF it was priced in just an acceptable pricerange.

Be cool, Be nice and stay friends.

< Message edited by kimsand -- 1/22/2014 9:24:18 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 128
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:21:56 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: kimsand

quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

For a game of this size and scope, $99 is arguably ON PAR with other huge grognard games that Matrix has released.  It was a steal when they released it (AND you got books!)

But people complained due to customs/additional shipping etc, and asked for a DL only version.

They gave it to you.  End of story, guys.  Sheesh.



What are you talking about... They still put on taxes which brings this game that has NO AI up to a total of
about 140$ us

Someone, dunno WHO, but someone has done some seriously wrong Price/demand calculations.

There are games out there that has cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and they sell for 70-80 bucks,
and said with deep respect for this one mans huge effort, it have not cost a fraction of that.

If they actually sold it at a resonable Price, more people would buy it, i know i certainly would. This would create
more revenue and they would earn more Money AND they would have a lot of very satisfied and loyal customers, instead
of no customers and small income.

warspite1

Can you do us a favour please? Its easy to spout anything that comes into your head and present it as fact, but how about you provide some facts to support what you say?

On what basis do you matter of factly state the price/demand calculations are wrong?

On what basis do you matter of factly state that the price charged is not reasonable?

What prey tell, is a "reasonable price"? Reasonable for who? Matrix? The customers? The developer? ADG? who? Please confirm the economics of the deal to justify such comments and enable us to understand.

What research have you done such that you know a drop in price guarantees a higher revenue - where is that price, and how many people will buy at which price? If my local Mercedes dealer sold a CLK at a reasonable price I know I would certainly buy it. The price I could afford it at would bankrupt Mercedes, but hey, lets not let cold economic facts of life get in the way.

The game is the game at the moment, warts and all, good and bad. How will getting more customers, guarantee more very satisfied and loyal customers - what like Dabrion you mean?

No customers and no income? Please explain further.

Finally, if dropping price is a retailers nirvana for happy, prosperous trading, please tell us why any company goes out of business.

Thank-you. I look forward to your detailed response


Anybody is entitled upon his or her opinion on the price of the game. If it is too high, don't buy it...

These questions are way out of line and don't have to be answered by anyone, be it Matrix or any other person.

It's simple enough to disagree on what is a reasonable price or not.
warspite1

Quelle surprise!

I never went to university so lets make sure I have this right.

A poster comes on matter of factly stating that Matrix has the price completely wrong - such that they are unreasonable and, as a result, have no customers and no income.

I ask said poster to back up said "facts" - and that's out of line?

Right.....



Yes. You don't have any facts either which supports the way Matrix set his prices. You don't know the contract with ADG, you know exactly the same as the poster, which is absolutely nothing, same as the poster who gives his opinion about the price of this game.

I could turn all those question around to you, asking you for the details to prove that you are right. You can't do so either.

Therefore, it's Matrix who can react, not anyone else. You aren't employed by Matrix and I don't think it wise to argue about the game price. It's set and that's it. And anyone here might say it's too high and Matrix isn't therefore maximising profits out of sales. That's their opinion and we should respect this and not ask questions which can't be answered by you (for proving the price is right) or by the other person (for proving the price is wrong).

warspite1

Which means you have completely missed the point - I mean completely.

Please point to me EXACTLY where I have said at any time, that I know what the economics are, that I know Matrix have it right? I have said no such thing.

I have said that its for the shareholders of Matrix to decide what is right - they are the people with money invested in this thing, its their business, their right to charge what they want.

I have said previously, that I am happy with my purchase and that the game is worth the cost to me. I have said nothing about anyone else's view.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 129
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:22:56 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....



There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.



Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...
warspite1

Please see above post - I am not saying I am right - I have nothing to try and prove


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 130
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:28:24 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kimsand

Wow. Warspite Im sorry to have stepped on your toes there, not my intention at all.

Im not stating anything as a fact, im stating my opinion and asumptions,
which i hope im entiteld to, and as i also wrote, i have the deepest respect
for the guy WHO went through this massive task and made this game come to the PC.

I am dissapointed in MatrixGames, i would have loved to buy the game and relive old days
but i feel the pricing is extreme for a game, which if you compare it to practically
all the other games on the market lack in a very important feature it has no AI.

I was a Alpha/beta tester on the first installment of Computer WIF, and ive followed this
game regularly since then.

BUT despite all this, i would have bought it supported it and played it, staying with the community
and Watch the game mature through patches IF it was priced in just an acceptable pricerange.

Be cool, Be nice and stay friends.
warspite1

And opinions are fine. I hope you come on board in the future, its such a stonkingly good game as you obviously know. If the price is a bit toppy for them I would not encourage anyone to buy because of the issues therein - especially if solitaire is not "your bag".


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Kimse123)
Post #: 131
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:34:20 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....



There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.



Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...
warspite1

Please see above post - I am not saying I am right - I have nothing to try and prove



But why are you than stating that you want people who have a different opinion on this, to prove they are right? That's the thing I'm worried about. Sure, you don't say you are right, but by doing this, you are surely giving the impression that you are right and others are wrong...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 132
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 8:47:34 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

Wow. I think I will cross this game off my wishlist. I have purchased 23 games from Matrix but this won't be my next one. I can't imagine there is much free thought allowed on here. I guess if you have almost 15,000 post you can act like a forum bully. Its too bad that the action of one forum member can ruin an entire game.

Don't bother typing out a long winded reply to me. I can't imagine you have anything intelligent to say. Perhaps the people who are trying to make a profit off this game should realize money is being lost because of a bully.
warspite1

Forum bully? Interesting comment. So the people that have come on here slagging Erik, the company, the game, the developer, the beta testers - they're okay yeah? they're the good guys? Anyone that supports the company position is a bully?

And please, the idea that grown adults will not buy a game because they are hurt and upset by someone's postings? That really is about as lame a comment as you will see on this or any forum....



There are people in the forums who don't support this game, for whatever reason. They are entitled to give their opinions and to get over and over again in discussions with these people makes things worse, not better...

Let Matrix clear up this mess or not. I only hope that people who see this topic, will do some more information gathering here, before making statements that are unfortunately only based on the way a few people think and act...
warspite1

They are 100% entitled to give their opinion - but for that matter so am I - or so I thought. But once again it appears that, according to you, I shouldn't. Well sorry, but I have as much right as they do.



Agreed. However, you shouldn't ask anyone to prove that they are right and you are wrong if you can't prove the opposite...
warspite1

Please see above post - I am not saying I am right - I have nothing to try and prove



But why are you than stating that you want people who have a different opinion on this, to prove they are right? That's the thing I'm worried about. Sure, you don't say you are right, but by doing this, you are surely giving the impression that you are right and others are wrong...
warspite1

No - they are two different things. I have read so many times in the last few months, on many different forums, about how Matrix should price differently. Fine - that's opinion - and hell, as a consumer why would I not want that?

BUT - and here's the BUT, we then invariably get onto the FACT - if stoopid Matrix only lowered the price, then everyone would buy and we would all be free to live a life of religious fulfilment.

That comment (which I may have amended a tad for effect) is written as FACT, but totally ignores economic reality, totally ignores that life isn't that simple and that its real easy to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake and tell others what to do - quite another to put your money on the line in running a company.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 133
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/22/2014 9:54:50 PM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3389
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
I have to agree with Warspite here. I have no problem with someone saying "In my opinion this game is priced too high/just fine" or "I think there total revenue would be higher if they lowered the price."

The problem is when people talk in extremes - No one is going to pay this much! (wrong, clearly as some have). Matrix is going to go out of business!! (unless you can predict the future, this isn't a valid statement)

I think often people who say these extreme things are expressing an opinion, but their use of the language makes it seem otherwise. Some folks aren't native English speakers, so maybe that is a contributing factor. Other might just be sloppy with language and think that I'm being a word-(German political party in WW2).

So if someone says to me a statement that isn't opinion, I would be inclined to ask 'Really? How do you know that for sure?" Not because I think I'm correct, but rather I am interested in what information they might have that I don't that is allowing them to make the jump from opinion to certainty.

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 134
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 6:48:37 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
Is Paulderyncks "statement of fact" allowable then because it takes the view of a side you agree with (members "whining, carping and complaining")?
quote:


99% of the people who objected said they'd buy the game at the stated price except they didn't want to pay the shipping (and possible customs) for the books. Now Matrix has accommodated them and unsurprisingly we now get the whining, carping and complaining from those whom nothing will satisfy...


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JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to FeurerKrieg)
Post #: 135
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 7:28:55 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Is Paulderyncks "statement of fact" allowable then because it takes the view of a side you agree with (members "whining, carping and complaining")?
quote:


99% of the people who objected said they'd buy the game at the stated price except they didn't want to pay the shipping (and possible customs) for the books. Now Matrix has accommodated them and unsurprisingly we now get the whining, carping and complaining from those whom nothing will satisfy...

warspite1

Allowable? What? This is not a court of law...

This may be an internet forum, but it is still essentially people just having a conversation.

In any conversation you will have opinions and facts offered - and sometimes people will, unwittingly or otherwise, offer up opinions treated as facts.

People can have a debate on opinions ("I think the game sucks", "the books are brilliant", "the cost is too much with no AI"), people can argue over facts (if the source is in dispute ("Wikipedia states...." ) and when opinions are offered as facts, people can challenge if they want to.

What is permissible on the forum is defined by Matrix rules.

As to your specific question, I do not know if Paulderyncks statement was 100% accurate - but a) my recollections from the thread are that it sounds about right - and Scott War confirmed there was one that said he expected to pay less, and b) it would be up to someone to challenge that statement.

Edit: Spelling


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/23/2014 8:32:01 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 136
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 11:33:47 AM   
Dabrion


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Dabrion - aren't you violating copyright rules when you act as you describe? (copying rules etc and providing them to others?)


I hope not! Not providing them to others on demand. Only to (potential) members of my gaming group, which is personal use afaik. This is a convenience measure, not a business plan ;)

_____________________________

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- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to AxelNL)
Post #: 137
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 12:22:16 PM   
AxelNL


Posts: 2060
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Dabrion - aren't you violating copyright rules when you act as you describe? (copying rules etc and providing them to others?)


I hope not! Not providing them to others on demand. Only to (potential) members of my gaming group, which is personal use afaik. This is a convenience measure, not a business plan ;)


I think most of us copy rules booklets to have more than one around when playing the boardgame. You do it a bit more professional than I as I see from the pictures!

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 138
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 4:15:43 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Dabrion - aren't you violating copyright rules when you act as you describe? (copying rules etc and providing them to others?)


I hope not! Not providing them to others on demand. Only to (potential) members of my gaming group, which is personal use afaik. This is a convenience measure, not a business plan ;)


I think most of us copy rules booklets to have more than one around when playing the boardgame. You do it a bit more professional than I as I see from the pictures!


Hi AxeINL

Maybe a dumb question but I am noted for that When players buy the board game from ADG throught the years are the rules all in English or can they be purchased in another language? Your English and centuur's is very good but how about other players from around the world that might want to play the game and have no knowledge of English.

Bo

(in reply to AxelNL)
Post #: 139
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 4:31:14 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
To my knowledge, there are translations of the rules in German, French and Spanish. There might be more, but that's what I know...

Btw... Thanks for commenting on my lousy English...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 1/23/2014 5:31:55 PM >


_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 140
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 6:28:16 PM   
AxelNL


Posts: 2060
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

To my knowledge, there are translations of the rules in German, French and Spanish. There might be more, but that's what I know...

Btw... Thanks for commenting on my lousy English...


Bo, I have the utmost respect for our Italian, Chinese and other brethren I have seen in this forum. English is for us almost a second language as most our TV/Movies are subtitled and we learn it throughout our school days (my kids started to learn it at 8). As a small trading nation we have a lot of focus on learning other languages (look at the WiF map where all our flags wave). At high school it is even obliged to graduate with a second foreign language - even if you are destined to go to a Technical University, where English is enough and the other languages will be mathematics or programming languages.
Usually the other language chosen is German (largest trading nation with us) or French (other language neighbour, including the southern part of Belgium). Most schools offer Spanish and nowadays some also Chinese (in my highschool days some of my classmates choose to study Japanese - it had the trading position China has now). No Scandinavian languages, although our culture is much closer to that of Norway/Denmark/Sweden than our closer neighbours.

I myself had the privilege to be able to do my Master's in Paris, where strangely enough I learned more English and discovered Malt Whisky instead of French and their wine.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 141
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/23/2014 8:32:35 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

To my knowledge, there are translations of the rules in German, French and Spanish. There might be more, but that's what I know...

Btw... Thanks for commenting on my lousy English...


Bo, I have the utmost respect for our Italian, Chinese and other brethren I have seen in this forum. English is for us almost a second language as most our TV/Movies are subtitled and we learn it throughout our school days (my kids started to learn it at 8). As a small trading nation we have a lot of focus on learning other languages (look at the WiF map where all our flags wave). At high school it is even obliged to graduate with a second foreign language - even if you are destined to go to a Technical University, where English is enough and the other languages will be mathematics or programming languages.
Usually the other language chosen is German (largest trading nation with us) or French (other language neighbour, including the southern part of Belgium). Most schools offer Spanish and nowadays some also Chinese (in my highschool days some of my classmates choose to study Japanese - it had the trading position China has now). No Scandinavian languages, although our culture is much closer to that of Norway/Denmark/Sweden than our closer neighbours.

I myself had the privilege to be able to do my Master's in Paris, where strangely enough I learned more English and discovered Malt Whisky instead of French and their wine.


Well, I think French wine is overrated... Anyhow, I learned my English while working for an English company who had a daughtercompany over here. Other than that, I've got family in Austria, so my German is also quite good, since that is a language I've spoken since childhood when we always went to Austria for a 7 weeks holiday over the summer (my father being a teacher at highschool helped a lot with the long summer vacation...).

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to AxelNL)
Post #: 142
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/24/2014 12:21:44 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

To my knowledge, there are translations of the rules in German, French and Spanish. There might be more, but that's what I know...

Btw... Thanks for commenting on my lousy English...


Bo, I have the utmost respect for our Italian, Chinese and other brethren I have seen in this forum. English is for us almost a second language as most our TV/Movies are subtitled and we learn it throughout our school days (my kids started to learn it at 8). As a small trading nation we have a lot of focus on learning other languages (look at the WiF map where all our flags wave). At high school it is even obliged to graduate with a second foreign language - even if you are destined to go to a Technical University, where English is enough and the other languages will be mathematics or programming languages.
Usually the other language chosen is German (largest trading nation with us) or French (other language neighbour, including the southern part of Belgium). Most schools offer Spanish and nowadays some also Chinese (in my highschool days some of my classmates choose to study Japanese - it had the trading position China has now). No Scandinavian languages, although our culture is much closer to that of Norway/Denmark/Sweden than our closer neighbours.

I myself had the privilege to be able to do my Master's in Paris, where strangely enough I learned more English and discovered Malt Whisky instead of French and their wine.


Well, I think French wine is overrated... Anyhow, I learned my English while working for an English company who had a daughtercompany over here. Other than that, I've got family in Austria, so my German is also quite good, since that is a language I've spoken since childhood when we always went to Austria for a 7 weeks holiday over the summer (my father being a teacher at highschool helped a lot with the long summer vacation...).


How old were you when you started to learn English, I know the younger you are the easier it is to absord, my grandson is learning Spanish in the 6th grade and he speaks it pretty well. There is a 10 year old boy who is a friend of my grandson and he comes from Equador 4 years ago and never spoke English to he got here and there is not a trace of Spanish accent when he speaks in English amazing.

A friend of mine is a German teacher in high school, he went to Germany for a vacation and the Germans complimented him on his perfect German but they knew he was an American by the accent.

Bo

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 143
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/24/2014 12:18:06 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
I was 12 when I got my first English lessons. And Germans can tell that I'm not a native German speaker, because I also have an accent. Nice thing about that accent is that they can't place it. To much Austrian dialect thrown in...

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Peter

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 144
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/24/2014 12:34:01 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1858
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
Sorry if someone else said it before, but this link:

http://matrixgames.com/store/buynow.asp?id=296&contractId=3208130

leads to an intermediate page where there is a different offer than the one it should be (boxed edition +download) although it finally arrives to the right page where you can effectively buy this option. It can be confusing for possible buyers and dissuade some who will cancel the process when they see the link isn't leading to the desired product.

I got that page after clicking on "boxed edition +download", here http://matrixgames.com/products/296/details/World.In.Flames

EDIT: It seems it's an additional offer that can be bought with that option, ..., but to me it's not clear, and I thought the link was wrong. I guess I may not be the only one. It should be included a clearer message that this is an additional option ...



< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/24/2014 1:45:27 PM >

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 145
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 1/24/2014 7:46:22 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7525
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
That option is for the Map Pack to be purchased as an optional extra, but yeah, it could be confusing depending on how you arrived there.

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(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 146
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 2/4/2014 3:52:48 AM   
icitrom_y

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline
I apologize in advance if this has already been mentioned. I gave up at the end of page 2.

Putting on my ESP cap, I suspect Matrix/Slitherine chose the lesser of two evils. Had they offered the new download-only version at the usual substantial discount, you'd have a whole bunch of MWiF owners screaming bloody murder as many wanted to not purchase the books but went ahead anyway because they were told there is not and would not be another option.

So, instead of a bunch of non-owners rightly questioning why the download-only version is not discounted, you'd likely have a bunch of owners demanding money back. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

It's a balancing act, weighing a certain but unclear amount of lost sales vs. the mitigation of the risk of current owners creating a big stink that could cost even more money, either directly, or indirectly with lost future repeat sales from disgruntled owners.
.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 147
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 2/4/2014 4:18:36 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 37602
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: icitrom_y

I apologize in advance if this has already been mentioned. I gave up at the end of page 2.

Putting on my ESP cap, I suspect Matrix/Slitherine chose the lesser of two evils. Had they offered the new download-only version at the usual substantial discount, you'd have a whole bunch of MWiF owners screaming bloody murder as many wanted to not purchase the books but went ahead anyway because they were told there is not and would not be another option.

So, instead of a bunch of non-owners rightly questioning why the download-only version is not discounted, you'd likely have a bunch of owners demanding money back. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

It's a balancing act, weighing a certain but unclear amount of lost sales vs. the mitigation of the risk of current owners creating a big stink that could cost even more money, either directly, or indirectly with lost future repeat sales from disgruntled owners.
.
warspite1

Most people are grown-ups and realise that, in life, things change. I have bought many things over the years - only to find that that those items were put in the sales a few weeks/months later or a superior product came out shortly after etc. There are no guarantees in life. You make your decisions based on what you know.

The fact that the download option became available was in response to demand from the consumer - and Matrix reacted. If people get it cheaper then good luck to them - I bought the game when I did because I wanted it badly enough. I can only speak for myself but I can honestly say if I was given the option at the time: Buy now and you have to buy the physical + books (which you will have to pay a surcharge for) or wait a couple of months(?) or so and have a slightly cheaper download option, then I would have gone for the former everytime. I agree not everyone would take that view - but given the reaction to the books from those that have bought them, I think most people would accept it, accept Matrix tried to do the right thing, and would move on instead of bleating about how unfair life is and demanding their money back.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to icitrom_y)
Post #: 148
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 2/5/2014 12:07:26 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 2834
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline
+1

I have very limited mony and I bought on release. If the downloaded version got a discount of x amount, I would have been fine and have not complained and expected any consideration because I bought early. I do not see the Steam forums exploading because people bought a game on release for $60 USD and then six months later it is on sale for $20.

Unfortunately, as Warsprite said, there could (please notice I said COULD) be enough people here to make demands for monies back where this might distract from the game so that it could (notice the could again ) impact not just sales of this game but sales overall. Given the comments about the books, lots of people did state they were willing to pay the full price for the game but were unwilling to pay for the books. So Matrix listened and complied. That is SO much better than ignoring the issue and saying 'Tough'.

If at some point a discount is offered for the download version, I am cool with that too. As my expectations of the game on release were extremely low (so were actually exceeded when I actually started playing) so I am definately in the 'happy' camp. But then I had been following the game for several years so I had a pretty good idea of the shape it would be in on release. Whatever matrix wants to do with their business is fine by me. I do not need to knon thier contract information, pricing model, etc. If they royally screw up, then I will just go elsewhere with my dollars. I certainly do NOT need to come here and complain about it. I have aboslutely NO desire to 'fix' any business I do not have money invested in I am just puzzled why others need to. Because you paid money for a game? Really?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 149
RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available - 2/5/2014 2:28:34 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 7890
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
I don't think it were the books that gave the problem. It was the shipping costs which are very, very high for parts of the world...

Personally I think that, if the shipping cost aren't so high, there wouldn't have been such an uproar about this...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 2/5/2014 3:29:02 PM >


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(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 150
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