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Long range late war IJN carrier raids

 
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Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/16/2013 4:01:53 PM   
Lonewolf


Posts: 61
Joined: 9/21/2002
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Just finished a game vs AI in the full campaign. A-bomb has to be used to hastily wrap things up by late Oct 1945. I am surprised Japanese had only less than 10 AK and TK left at the end. Instead of going traditional route, I liberate China instead via Wenchow and Hangchow (just west of Shanghai) and captured Shanghai with a big land invasion. I was about to sweep down to Korea from Manchuria with USSR help. Recapture of Singapore is 2 years in the making, marching all the way from Bengali to Burma to Siam...

However not once but twice my supply lines in northern Pacific have been raided by marauding IJN carriers (Aso, Ikuma, etc) of late war construction since the early war IJN CVs were all sunk by me. One of these were in 1944 and another in mid-1945. Other than Wake and Marcus islands, IJN has no base further east. How can they (CVs and DDs) make it all the way from what seems to be the Kuriles almost to San Francisco and back to Japan? Where are all the fuel coming from?

These raids managed to sink some transports to make the war few months longer. And they diverted some of my CVs on wide goose chase in north Pacific only to catch up to them when they were back to home water. The after war inspection shows they have actually good experienced air crew.



< Message edited by Lonewolf -- 12/17/2013 12:53:21 AM >


_____________________________

H. Lo

Previously played:
Uncommon Valor
War In The Pacific: AE
War Plan Orange
Steel Panthers series
Post #: 1
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/16/2013 4:18:21 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 2000
Joined: 6/3/2006
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Did you find an "AO" type ships about? As you will note in the Pearl Harbor raid, there were many of them in support. I'm not familiar with later model IJN CVs, what is their bunker range?

(in reply to Lonewolf)
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RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/16/2013 4:26:48 PM   
Lonewolf


Posts: 61
Joined: 9/21/2002
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I did not see any AO in my searches. But then I was very surprise in seeing especially the mid 1945 raid that knocked out the CVEs I have been using to escort the convoys. By the time my full size CVs get to the scene, the raiders have passed the north/south line of Pearl Harbor. AI was smart enough to keep them away from the shored based bomber at San Francisco. These raiders were going faster than any AO can anyway. I'll have to check later (when I get home) but I think they can hold about 10000 in fuel each.

Please remember I was playing against the AI as Japanese. I expect suicide raids like these from a human opponent but not the AI.

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 3
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/16/2013 4:33:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lonewolf

I did not see any AO in my searches. But then I was very surprise in seeing especially the mid 1945 raid that knocked out the CVEs I have been using to escort the convoys. By the time my full size CVs get to the scene, the raiders have passed the north/south line of Pearl Harbor. AI was smart enough to keep them away from the shored based bomber at San Francisco. These raiders were going faster than any AO can anyway. I'll have to check later (when I get home) but I think they can hold about 10000 in fuel each.

Please remember I was playing against the AI as Japanese. I expect suicide raids like these from a human opponent but not the AI.


The AI doesn't exactly follow the rules. It follows scripts that might keep having it do something regardless of the situation in the war. There has been some talk of teleporting ships as well, but i've never seen it confirmed.

Either way, whatever the AI does that causes you trouble is a good thing!

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lonewolf)
Post #: 4
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/16/2013 4:43:29 PM   
Lonewolf


Posts: 61
Joined: 9/21/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


The AI doesn't exactly follow the rules. It follows scripts that might keep having it do something regardless of the situation in the war. There has been some talk of teleporting ships as well, but i've never seen it confirmed.

Either way, whatever the AI does that causes you trouble is a good thing!


That is what the Matrix Games AI seems fairly good at since Uncommon Valor - the utter unexpected when the situation is a grim.
A human player will never want to throw away good quality ships and planes like that for a potential one-way trip. Real Japanese command may but fortunately they never had a chance back then. This is one of the reason I am so addicted to various Matrix Games product. Being an old 1980s wargammer is the other reason.

The next time I play as Allies against a Japanese AI, you bet I am going to set up better defences against these suicide raids. Taking back Marcus and Wake as opposed to bypassing them will be a good start. Maybe I will even consider leaving smaller CVs task group to patrol between Midway and Aleutians.

< Message edited by Lonewolf -- 12/16/2013 5:44:50 PM >


_____________________________

H. Lo

Previously played:
Uncommon Valor
War In The Pacific: AE
War Plan Orange
Steel Panthers series

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/16/2013 4:52:42 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 2000
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lonewolf

Please remember I was playing against the AI as Japanese. I expect suicide raids like these from a human opponent but not the AI.


I understand and I've never seen the AI do such a thing either. But Obvert is right, whenever it does something unexpected and shakes things up, it is a good thing. I usually find the AI way too predictable. But I must admit I've never run across a mission where it kept going until it ran out of gas! It would appear that all bets are off when it comes to the last few months of the war and what the AI will do.... Good luck.

(in reply to Lonewolf)
Post #: 6
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/16/2013 5:00:13 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lonewolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


The AI doesn't exactly follow the rules. It follows scripts that might keep having it do something regardless of the situation in the war. There has been some talk of teleporting ships as well, but i've never seen it confirmed.

Either way, whatever the AI does that causes you trouble is a good thing!


That is what the Matrix Games AI seems fairly good at since Uncommon Valor - the utter unexpected when the situation is a grim.
A human player will never want to throw away good quality ships and planes like that for a potential one-way trip. Real Japanese command may but fortunately they never had a chance back then. This is one of the reason I am so addicted to various Matrix Games product. Being an old 1980s wargammer is the other reason.

The next time I play as Allies against a Japanese AI, you bet I am going to set up better defences against these suicide raids. Taking back Marcus and Wake as opposed to bypassing them will be a good start. Maybe I will even consider leaving smaller CVs task group to patrol between Midway and Aleutians.


Good points! Andy probably threw things like that in there knowing how lazy an Allied player can get drowning in supplies and ships in 45!

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lonewolf)
Post #: 7
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/17/2013 9:58:36 PM   
John Lansford

 

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I've seen the AI send lone IJN CV's between Pearl Harbor and the West Coast. One time it sent Junyo and another time it was Soryu. Both times the CV's had only one escort, and fortunately they passed close enough to the north of Hawaii that my LR patrols detected them. I had multiple carriers finished refitting at Pearl plus one of the Essex class was coming from San Francisco, so the ensuing fight didn't turn out well for the IJN...

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 8
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/18/2013 3:57:13 AM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/27/2012
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I have seen the AI do far loopier things than this! it will play out it's script, even repeatedly, evidently oblivious to results. That is why you will quickly tire of playing with youself!!!

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 9
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/18/2013 12:49:12 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 1477
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot
That is why you will quickly tire of playing with youself!!!




Err...uhm....




(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 10
RE: Long range late war IJN carrier raids - 12/18/2013 12:53:45 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4744
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot
That is why you will quickly tire of playing with youself!!!




Err...uhm....








(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 11
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