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Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.12 The Middle Earth Rule 1v1=2v1

 
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Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.12 The Middle Earth Rule 1v1=2v1 - 12/9/2013 9:02:05 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyhJ69mD7xI

41-45 Alt 260 Server game.

non - random weather
HQ Lock
Full FoW
Reduced Blizzard Effects

No HQ and air field spam, 1 bombing attack per turn max.

To retain the threat of paratroop operations, but to bring this within the plausible in terms of Soviet capacity, no drops before November 1941. One a month up to June 1942 and then unlimited. However, you can 'save' drops, so if you don't use one, it can be used in the next month.

No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943 In addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea � which reflects the scope for air/naval interdiction not really reflected in the game.





Morale is of the Battle Field.

Standard opening for me. I had some very bad die rolls, but I think I managed to over come it so to speak.

Should be a good game.

Air Power Settings.

% Required to fly = 0%
Interception should be 0=0
All Support 125% and escort setting at 125%
All intercept set to 160%
Move JU87 into fighter bases.
Bombers into the remaining bases.
Transports in a single airbase. 1 in north and 1 in south. The 1 in AGC move to AGS

Turn ground support off at end of your turn.

Unit set-ups.
Set ToE of HQ�s and Airbases to 93%,
ToE of AA, Art, Stug, pioneers, and MG to 53%
ToE of Con and FZ�s to 63%.
Set all infantry ToE to 85%. 85+ morale to 100%
PZ, MoT and Mech to 85%.

RR;
One north
One to land bridge
One to Minsk
Two Rumanian then split to Kiev or crossing.


1. Change OKH leadership
2. Turn one do all border attacks first.
3. Bomb front line air bases after all ground units have attacked/moved.
4. Over run airbases then bomb whatever left.
5.






Opening Offensives AGN.

Extra RR unit help Northern RR unit the first 2 turns, then return to AGC and build to land bridge.

AGN:

Basically infantry clear the front.

36th 54-40 move HQ�s
Add SU�s to 6th and 1st move to 58-34 air attack city then turn on GS- HA
36th HA 22nd divisions if needed it will route.
3rd mech 54-40 east to 62-38 then cross
8th 54-40 then to 64-40
Do air drops



AGN: 2 options.
A. Right hook.
B. Frontal assault.

1. Get across the Pskov by turn 3. Turn 2 is the best.
2. HQ up on turn 4.
3. Infantry punch through and panzers cut rails.
4. Clear the rail line on the Daugava river to Vitebsk by turn 5.
5. 9th Army needs a solid front below Pskov to Vitebsk by turn 5
6. Should be across the Luga by turn 5.
7. Then pound it out to Leningrad.
8. Once Leningrad is taken pull the panzers to AGC.
9. Fins man 6 hexes and send rest back to homeland.
10. Model run I Corp, should be 4 90+ morale units
11. Move I Corp into 4th PG during Blizzard
12. Move II Corp into 1st PG during Blizzard.













Opening Offensives AGC

1. RR unit must go east to Minsk, cross river and
2. 2th Army needs to be reinforced and link with 9th Army from AGN
3. 2nd and 3rd Panzer group get to land bridge by turn 3. Then keep pushing east with 2nd and 4th Armys.
4. Start grinding towards Moscow. At some point asap a southern push has to be made on Tula. Hopefully with help from the panzer Corps from AGN and AGS.

AGC North side:

VI Corp will attack Kaunas
20th MD 61-40 60-39 61-39 62-38
20th PD 62-43 64-42
7th PD 65-42
19th PD 61-51 63-53 66-54 end 66-55
18th PD 60-53 63-54
12th PD 65-57 66-58
18th PD 60-53 63-54
12th PD 64-58
288 to 56-55?


AGC south side:

23rd clear 48-64 O= occupy
7th clear 49-65 O
258th clear 50-65 O
268th to 51-66
292th to 51-69
263th to 51-67
112th, 293 to 50-67
137 to 51-67 then all 4 divisions DA Breast.
78 to53-64
17 51-74
XII 51-73 DA then block 52-74+51-74
134 54-67
252 54-65 HA
131 55-66 ha
167 55-66 ha
29 MD 56-65 then 60-62 ha MP�s left over to block where needed after PZ divs move.
18 PD 56-61 then 61-60 then assault east
17 PD finish up pushing east.










Opening Offensives AGS.

AGS:
Get FBD-1 on a train and get to border.
267 55-74
62+56 54-74 DA
255 55-75 DA
56 53-74
100 JG 50-77 DA
296+97 JG 51-77 DA
299+99 JG 51-78
101 52-78
ADD 2 POINEERS TO 1ST MT
1ST MT+68+24 51-79 24TH TO 52-80
71 53-80
ADD MG + ONE OTHER TO 1ST CAV
1ST CAV 57-76 GD 56-76
262 53-81
75 51-81
DR + 10TH PZ ADD POINEERS ECT
57-82 BLOCKING AROUND 62-82/ 61-83
Rest of infantry fill in holes.
16th 57-79 ect
10th 4th 3rd close extended pocket
11th to 60-93
Put in 13th in 3rd Corp now.
13th 62-86 62-87
14th 62-90 62-91


AGS main objective is release of AGA


1. Spearhead on turn 2 must be south of Proskurov. RR units coming from Romania to Vinnitsa.
2. Move the FBD-1 south on turn 1. Both FBD team up until they cross Dnepr.
3. 2. Get across the Dnepr river by turn 4 or 5. Clear as much land as possible to the river before turn 5.
4. Must have Stalino locked down by turn 7-10. ASAP send Panzers to AGC to finish off Moscow. At least 6 divisions.
5. 7th Army will link with 4th Army from AGC, 6th Army will follow 1st PG.
6. One Corp from 11th Army will clear Odessa then hold Crimea. MT units from Romanian and Hungary will help.
7. Romanian and Hungarian units will garrison all city�s in south, send any German Security Divisions north








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/29/2013 7:38:03 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk
Post #: 1
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 - 12/9/2013 9:05:06 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6415
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
This should be a good one.



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WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 2
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 - 12/9/2013 9:50:52 PM   
SigUp

 

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Joined: 11/29/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

To retain the threat of paratroop operations, but to bring this within the plausible in terms of Soviet capacity, no drops before November 1941. One a month up to June 1942 and then unlimited. However, you can 'save' drops, so if you don't use one, it can be used in the next month.

No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943 In addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea which reflects the scope for air/naval interdiction not really reflected in the game.

Happy to see that mine and loki's house rules are catching on.

Anyway, should be a terrific match.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 3
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 - 12/9/2013 11:36:29 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

To retain the threat of paratroop operations, but to bring this within the plausible in terms of Soviet capacity, no drops before November 1941. One a month up to June 1942 and then unlimited. However, you can 'save' drops, so if you don't use one, it can be used in the next month.

No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943 In addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea which reflects the scope for air/naval interdiction not really reflected in the game.

Happy to see that mine and loki's house rules are catching on.

Anyway, should be a terrific match.


Yes, I am kinda like the Borg. If it works for someone else I am more then happy to use it.

About the only thing I do I have not been taught by someone else or had the info sent to me.

Is how I chain, which I come up with myself vs AI before playing anyone H v H.

I developed it without the need of air drops from bombers back in the day of 1.04


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 4
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 - 12/10/2013 1:06:40 AM   
Bozo_the_Clown


Posts: 500
Joined: 6/25/2013
From: Somewhere else
Status: offline
deleted

< Message edited by Bozo_the_Clown -- 12/15/2013 9:16:04 PM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 5
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 - 12/10/2013 1:38:16 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Thanks for removing your insulting signature line!

No paratroopers? Your are not a real man.


It changes, so I am sure to be insulting you in the future. Nothing personal.

That's your opinion.




_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Bozo_the_Clown)
Post #: 6
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 - 12/11/2013 12:26:37 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 2
After heavy recon Sapper is doing the old Flaviusx / MT everything but the kitchen sink to in the north and then build lines working south. I have a counter for this now.
Sapper has basically railed every unit he could north. No industry was railed east from what I can see.
I have seen this several times in the past.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 7
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Pskov - 12/11/2013 12:29:17 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGN: Despite Sapper railing in the kitchen sink 4 panzer divisions of AGN cross the Valikaya. The 90+ morale grinders cross the Daugava River 1 turn from the front. Sapper will need to rail in more units.

The Valikaya River Line defenses were 20 CV stacks behind the river. I have seen this several times in the past and I have completely changed my opening and strategy to counter it. The LVI Corp lead by Eric Von Manstien ( loaded with pioneers) make a successful river crossing and XXXIX Corp expands the 10 mile bridgehead to 30 miles. XXXXI Corp covers the flanks. As can be seen I make the push very wide so the panzers cannot be cut off, its not as wide as I would like because of 4 bad die rolls.

This strategy for crossing has allot of options, so even 4 or 5 bad die rolls can be over come.

I am guessing Sapper has not had anyone punch across The Valikaya River Line in force before on turn 2. The question is now how will he adjust his strategy as this has a ripple effect from Leningrad to Rostov?





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/11/2013 1:36:50 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 8
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Pskov - 12/11/2013 12:32:03 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGC Standard stuff.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 9
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 12:33:50 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS standard stuff.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 10
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 3:27:46 PM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 376
Joined: 6/24/2013
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Infantry would not help you expand that bridgehead until turn 4 , plus supply to the tanks has to cross both Dwina and Malta.
It is very good place to make a stand for SHC.



< Message edited by Gabriel B. -- 12/11/2013 4:29:14 PM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 11
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 7:10:03 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.

Infantry would not help you expand that bridgehead until turn 4 , plus supply to the tanks has to cross both Dwina and Malta.
It is very good place to make a stand for SHC.




You talking in the north?


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Gabriel B.)
Post #: 12
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 9:08:50 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2395
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
I am very curious to see how this pans out. I hope you don't get bogged down in the north like you did in our game Gerald. If it gets sticky up there you need to pull out quick and head back to the centre. The Panzers north strategy is good if you get a quick and cheap victory at Leningrad. But if you get bogged down your 1941 summer campaign will be a disaster.

Also what is the consensus now about this mild winter rule? I have no experience with it but on the face of it I think it goes a little to far in Germany's favour. But the stock rule is too far in the Soviets favour. So its still a problem as I see it. But as this game is using the mild winter I will be interested in how it works out.

Are most people using the mild winter rule now in PBEM/Server games?

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 13
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 9:17:48 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am very curious to see how this pans out. I hope you don't get bogged down in the north like you did in our game Gerald. If it gets sticky up there you need to pull out quick and head back to the centre. The Panzers north strategy is good if you get a quick and cheap victory at Leningrad. But if you get bogged down your 1941 summer campaign will be a disaster.

Also what is the consensus now about this mild winter rule? I have no experience with it but on the face of it I think it goes a little to far in Germany's favour. But the stock rule is too far in the Soviets favour. So its still a problem as I see it. But as this game is using the mild winter I will be interested in how it works out.

Are most people using the mild winter rule now in PBEM/Server games?


In our game I did not use as many panzers or prep as good. With this set up I can go right hook or drive north.

As you stated no matter what I will be pulling out Corp on turn 8 then 10 leaving only LVI and I+II Corp to pound it out one way or the other as I have done in my last 4 games.

On turn 4 I have 8 90+ morale infantry divisions already so I+II Corp can hasty attack about any hex. Turn 4 I hasty attacked over a river with 2 divisions after moving 10 Mp's
I have another 8 85+

Leningrad wrecking ball crew, then Moscow then 1942 if nessary. They will not see any blizzard turns as I have learnt with my late war games, panzers heal up fast infantry don't.

I learnt allot from our game.

From what I have read it helps some but not that much.

With the swapping bug fixes .13 I really don't see how a german player can't get a draw every time atleast?




< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/11/2013 10:23:30 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 14
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 9:43:25 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6415
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I would continue to heavily reinforce the north myself, at the expense of the center which to my mind has too much. If you're serious about making a fight about Leningrad, you have to give up the landbridge and make any stand in the center much further east.




_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 15
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 9:54:58 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2395
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

From what I have read it helps some but not that much.


If this is true then perhaps the blizzard problems are fixed. I am starting to get hungry again about this game but not till after .13 is done and proven to be near the last iteration.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 16
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 11:15:55 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I would continue to heavily reinforce the north myself, at the expense of the center which to my mind has too much. If you're serious about making a fight about Leningrad, you have to give up the landbridge and make any stand in the center much further east.





Are u talking SHC?

I am looking forward to our game .13

I have more tweats to the northern advance and a center drive. Its really timing as far as when you really don't need 7 panzer divisions.

If you can make ok advances turns 5 and 6 and SHC is hvy in the north you can release 4 panzer divisions turn 7 and 3 more turn 8.

If the SHC is not all in then you keep them until turn 8 and 10, because they simply will not be of any use anyways.

As long as I can get 8 infantry to 90+ morale pushing forward 2 to 3 hexes per turn is doable, with the 4 panzers to jump in hexes the infantry can not get to.

You simply don't need the 7 panzer divisions, the infantry can grind it out. So if the SHC is all in he will pay in center. There is no rail in center until turn 7 anyways so the panzers might as well drive in north.





< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/12/2013 12:24:47 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 17
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 11:18:40 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6415
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I'm talking Soviet, yes.

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Post #: 18
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 11:24:48 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I'm talking Soviet, yes.


Sorry reread my post above thks


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 19
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/11/2013 11:27:43 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

From what I have read it helps some but not that much.


If this is true then perhaps the blizzard problems are fixed. I am starting to get hungry again about this game but not till after .13 is done and proven to be near the last iteration.


Be great to have you back.


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 20
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 12:33:28 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2395
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
After 3 years of nothing else other than WITE I needed a break. Civil War II is currently keeping me busy. But I am thinking about WITE again and the latest changes. New idea's etc etc.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 21
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 5:56:47 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

After 3 years of nothing else other than WITE I needed a break. Civil War II is currently keeping me busy. But I am thinking about WITE again and the latest changes. New idea's etc etc.


The reason for all the GHC help is most everyone other then 4 people don't stand a snowballs chance in hell at even getting to historical results.

Most games end before the blizzard even starts and we both know the result of in experanced GHC players during the Middle earth blizzard effects.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/12/2013 6:57:50 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 22
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 7:39:52 AM   
821Bobo


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From: Slovakia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

After 3 years of nothing else other than WITE I needed a break. Civil War II is currently keeping me busy. But I am thinking about WITE again and the latest changes. New idea's etc etc.


I am probably addicted to WitE
I wanted to stop but I could not. I tried to switch to WitP, but for me, compared to WitE its so boring.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 23
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 9:00:46 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Most games end before the blizzard even starts and we both know the result of in experanced GHC players during the Middle earth blizzard effects.




Which isn't the case any more. From testing, you'll get battered in December, have a rough time of it in January and by Feb-March be trading blows.

Its disruptive, it allows the Soviets to take back territory but if you prioritise sectors then you can limit the Soviets to 4-5 hexes of gains and then hold. There will be a cost somewhere else for this concentration but overall it makes it easier to start the 1942 offensive much closer to your 1941 high water mark.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 24
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 10:08:55 AM   
Callistrid

 

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I belive the best soviet winter strategy is to refit, and train all troops morale to the maximum, plus harvest as many AP you can. A strong, 100 TOE, and 50 morale soviet division has 3 CV stength. With 300-350 Division you can really stop the german attack on 42.

So massive forticication build on the rear, rest and train.


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Most games end before the blizzard even starts and we both know the result of in experanced GHC players during the Middle earth blizzard effects.




Which isn't the case any more. From testing, you'll get battered in December, have a rough time of it in January and by Feb-March be trading blows.

Its disruptive, it allows the Soviets to take back territory but if you prioritise sectors then you can limit the Soviets to 4-5 hexes of gains and then hold. There will be a cost somewhere else for this concentration but overall it makes it easier to start the 1942 offensive much closer to your 1941 high water mark.



(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 25
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 10:41:34 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 2320
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline
The 42 Soviet NM starts at 40 - so you will have to work at reaching the 50 mark. The armor and infantry brigades stay with a morale of 50 - but brigades only slow down the Axis punch they can't really stop it.

(in reply to Callistrid)
Post #: 26
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 10:45:52 AM   
Callistrid

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
The moral goes up to 50, if those troops can refit far from the german lines (10+ hex).


quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The 42 Soviet NM starts at 40 - so you will have to work at reaching the 50 mark. The armor and infantry brigades stay with a morale of 50 - but brigades only slow down the Axis punch they can't really stop it.




< Message edited by Callistrid -- 12/12/2013 12:15:15 PM >

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 27
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/12/2013 10:47:44 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 2320
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline
Not anymore. They max out at NM from refit. After they hit NM they will only increase about 1 every 20 or so turns. This change was after 7.07 and is definitely in 7.11 This topping out at NM is also applied to the Axis Allies. This upper limit is necessary because I showed how the entire Italian army in WitW could be at morale of 50 before Sicily falls. The decision for the NM limit came quickly after . . .


(in reply to Callistrid)
Post #: 28
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 Valikaya crossed in forse. - 12/13/2013 1:08:19 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Hes is right NM FINALLY MEANS SOMETHING. Another area where I bitched for months on end before that was fixed.

Only bad thing about me being right and 2by3 being wrong is they thk I am a ass hat.

I am not one of the good old boys, a pig is a pig no matter how much make up you put on it.

Or

An ugly baby is an ugly baby, sorry.

It will be a long time before most people know what I mean by this, but remember that an ugly baby is an ugly baby.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/13/2013 2:13:09 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 29
RE: Pelton vs Sapper 1.07.11 - 12/15/2013 4:39:54 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6296
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 4 Total armaments Destroyed: 8 with 20 others locked down =28
Saper managed 2 counter attacks vs. next to useless tank divisions. His over all strategy so far is high CV stacks every third hex, not allot of depth to the defences really. No checker boards. Lines with 20-40 CV every 3rd hex. Will be interesting to see what happens one I can hit it with stacks of infantry and gased up tanks.
AGN: I Corp assaults across the Shelon River and causes several rifle divisions to retreat and all of LVI Corp cross over and hold a 20 mile wide bridge head. LVI is topped off with transport fuel and XXXXI and XXXIX Panzer Corp do HQBUs.
I have 8 yes thats right 8 infantry divisions at 90+ morale with 4 in I Corp and 2 II Corp. Also both Corp are filled up with siege artillery and pioneers. One of the others is in route to II Corp. Not sure about moving the 8th one up as I have 8 other divisions between 85-87.
Yes Bozo the Clown that is will normal morale settings, Saper posted the game not me.
The spearhead of the assault on Leningrad then hopefully Moscow is I and II Corp.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
23 - 4 - 8

16 games ended in 41 (16-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 30
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