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Wanted: Barbarossa land attack tutorial

 
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Wanted: Barbarossa land attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 12:41:00 PM   
henri51


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I would like to see a move-by-move tutorial AAR of the original land attack impulses for the Barbarossa tutorial. I have watched the video tutorial and the interactive one and read the appropriate parts in the manual, but those tutorials are for attacking the Poles in the Global War scenario, and have little to do with the Barbarossa scenario. There is a user AAR, but unfortunately he does not go over the detailed moves I need.

I tried part of the first turn of the Barbarossa tutorial, and I lost 4 units in the first bunch of attacks, and not one of them had better odds than 4/1. I probably made the mistake of trying to attack most of the Soviet units, and I did kill a number of them, but seeing that in the video tutorial, the first wave of attacks lost no units and had very few disorganized units and overran most of the Soviet units, it doesn't require Rommel to figure out that Hitler would have me shot on the first day of Barbarossa.

So since Barbarossa is supposed to be a beginner scenario, I would like to see how the German player is supposed to carry out his attack; which Soviet units should be attacked on the first impulse? Which units should carry out the attacks? How many preliminary ground attack missions should be carried out and where? Where should the ground support attacks go?

I am a highly experienced wargamer, and have played just about ALL the wargames from Afrika Korps to War in the East, but I am a total newbie to this game and clearly the classical method of ganging up on the enemy units to try to get a 3:1 advantage will not do for this game.

I hope that I am not alone.

Henri

< Message edited by henri51 -- 11/20/2013 6:27:06 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 1:52:16 PM   
Centuur


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First: never attack cities in the home country of the enemy with odds less than 4-1 (when defenders are disorganised) or 6-1 (when defenders are organised) in the early impulses of the turn. Late in the turn you can do so, since getting disorganised isn't making a lot of difference at that time. However, early in the turn you want your army to be able to move...

Second: use ground strikes only if you can't get an odds shift if you use the planes in ground support (f.e.: if the defending stack has 10 factors and in the surprise impulse you have a 5 factor Stuka available, use it for ground support, since it gives you 10 combat factors for sure, where a ground strike only gives you two rolls instead of one...).

Third: concentrate on a few high attacks (4-1 or more) and aim to put other defenders OOS (especially in Eastern Poland). It is more important to punch two holes into the USSR front to make sure your fast ARM and MECH will run behind enemy lines if the USSR doesn't react on this. Choose South or North to do so (and don't choose both parts of the front). Use ARM to attack in clear hexes.

Fourth: always include a MIL unit in the attacks for loss takers (or Divisions). They are cheap and also return fast to the map (within a turn). I always say that as Germany I probably did kill the whole population of the city of Berlin while using the Berlin MIL. Those units are very good cannonflodder. High combat factors combined with only 2 BP... Economical use is guaranteed. Always empty the MIL pool during production.

Fifth: don't ground strike units in woods.



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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 2:22:01 PM   
jhdeerslayer


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I used this first impulse (note it is a surprise impulse also and check the rule on that) to help learn the game so I spent a lot of time on it. I did the Fast Setup also and most Russians are in the woods. I ground striked everywhere I could and got some good luck - even in the woods. The one mistake I made was forgetting about the overrun rule for units in clear which would have helped in at least one hex.

I then tried to isolate as many Russians as I could because isolated/disorganized are easy prey. I strove for 7:1 odds everywhere and think I made it except one hex which was a disorganized 4:1. The Rumanian front is too weak and I just moved and not attack. The two unused planes I had (condor/float plane) I actually used for ground support (there's a difference from Strike) to help push land attack odds up to the next level so that helped.

I have a nice hole punched in the lines and on to Impulse 2 now. I'm a newbie but this worked for me and some trial and error. Save game often.....

< Message edited by Deerslayer -- 11/20/2013 3:57:07 PM >


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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 2:37:42 PM   
dougb

 

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Great thread!

I've struggled with this one as well as a newbie and have restarted about 5 times but what I think I've learned is to focus attacks on a few key hexes at high odds rather than trying to attack everywhere. One thing I haven't tried yet is to combine that with some overruns by armor, particularly after hitting with a couple of ground strikes. I think trying to keep everything moving in the early impulses, as suggested above, is obviously also key and that means trying to keep the ground units organized.

Part of the issue I was having was not being as familiar with the rules as I needed to understand how to utilize tactics to get the most out of both the turns and my units. Carefully reading sections in the Rules as Coded manual is helping to address this.

Doug

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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 2:56:41 PM   
jhdeerslayer


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Same here Doug... I forgot to mention I used my Offensive Chit and picked Combined. Not sure smart or not but what I did anyway. Now it will be tricky to have my air force keep up with my front line. The tough decisions start now... Still much to learn.

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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 3:35:47 PM   
dougb

 

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Deerslayer,

I was starting initially by playing combined with offensive chits but in my last fee plays I went with 2 land ops to start. Keeping the air up with the front line is definitely going to be tricky. I haven't played that far into the scenario as I'm still trying to get to grips with the rules. Definitely having fun with the game.

One thing I found out is that even a strong Russian unit is toast if it's in clear terrain. It helped to illustrate the logic of the setup where the Russians are in forest hexes even though it leaves quite a bit of room for the Germans to move up. I think in the area west of Minsk is to unlock the two northern most Russians as quickly as possible as that enables getting around the two stacked behind the river to the south east. That allows the German player to more easily get behind Dvinks and also run up the Baltic Coast.

I've been working with two air strikes to start in order to try and conserve some airpower before reorganizing. I'm going to try that with some attempted overruns tonight when I get home.

Doug


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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 3:58:18 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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As shown by the replies to the original post, there is no 1 recommended answer to how Germany should beat up the USSR in the first couple of turns of Barbarossa. Don't do weak attacks and instead just do a few high odds attacks is a common theme, but there are several ways to go about achieving that.

One of the things this scenario teaches, indirectly, is what a good defensive line looks like. How to use terrain for a defensive advantage.

Yes, it is a lot of trial and error to explore the possibilities. But you will need that experience later. The game has a lot of variables floating around: weather, Action choice, defending and attacking unit types, hex terrain, hexside terrain, different land CRTs, other optional rules. Seeing the result of poor attacks is as important as seeing the result of great attacks. Being able to differentiate between the two on a fluctuating battlefront is a key skill to acquire, and refine over time.

We learn from our failures, (provided they don't kill us).

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 4:10:24 PM   
jhdeerslayer


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From: Michigan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

As shown by the replies to the original post, there is no 1 recommended answer to how Germany should beat up the USSR in the first couple of turns of Barbarossa. Don't do weak attacks and instead just do a few high odds attacks is a common theme, but there are several ways to go about achieving that.

One of the things this scenario teaches, indirectly, is what a good defensive line looks like. How to use terrain for a defensive advantage.

Yes, it is a lot of trial and error to explore the possibilities. But you will need that experience later. The game has a lot of variables floating around: weather, Action choice, defending and attacking unit types, hex terrain, hexside terrain, different land CRTs, other optional rules. Seeing the result of poor attacks is as important as seeing the result of great attacks. Being able to differentiate between the two on a fluctuating battlefront is a key skill to acquire, and refine over time.

We learn from our failures, (provided they don't kill us).


Well said! I haven't played this game since the 80's and coming back to me now what an interesting bugger it is! Glad I spent the coin and manuals arrive today to boot. Baby steps on this gem for now. Can't wait to get to Guad but have much to learn on Barb for now. Not to mention more options to turn on someday...

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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/20/2013 6:35:21 PM   
dougb

 

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I'm really enjoying learning the game. I had this one in the 80's but didn't play much at all due to lack of available opponents. Looking forward to getting in some internet play when I've got a better understanding of the system.

Doug

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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa ground attack tutorial - 11/21/2013 2:45:21 PM   
jhdeerslayer


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Yea I continue to make mistakes but the best way to learn. Don't do attacks on Russkies without fighter cover as they freely add support and made for a few bad odds for me. Lost a Corp out of it and too much disorganization. I shouldn't have used an HQ in an attack either because attack failed and HQ disorganized for no reason. Argh.

Hungary/Rumania have garrison requirements too. Found this out when I read the error message up top.

RR movement only good when you start in city or HQ. Seems a good way to bring up the militia from Germany if I remembered this fact. :-)

Not sure my idea of using an offensive chit for Combined was the best idea. I'd like to have it now to reorganize! After 5th impulse, I get rain and my advance is crawling. May start over eventually and turn on Advanced Options as I want to explore more of these and Barb seems a good small format to do that in. Half of the joy of a game like this is learning it - for me anyway. Like a big puzzle...

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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa land attack tutorial - 10/5/2014 7:52:14 AM   
krafen73

 

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Hello :) I'm trying the Barbarossa also. I saw amazing first turns of it in here. I even read that the Dniester RIver is very hard for the russians to defend.
I found that the Rumeninas can't do much. There is a trick about it? German players use to rail in Rumania a few Arm/Mec/Mot and reorganize in the next impulse?
If not, how the Rumenians can kick on the russians there?

Thank you very much, I will wait a few replyes before starting a new game.

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RE: Wanted: Barbarossa land attack tutorial - 10/5/2014 7:24:38 PM   
composer99


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The Rumanian forces have, as I recall, only a token German presence at set up, so often the Red Army units along the frontier will be stronger.

However, the risk for the Red Army is that they will get cut off if they stand and fight once the Germans have got through the border defences in Eastern Poland south of the Pripet Marshes.

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