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Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 3:34:46 PM   
Ubercat

 

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(1)OK, I've searched all the manual PDF's with only limited success. I'm trying to understand the very basic concept of unit disruption which doesn't appear to be described anywhere. If it were, a search for the root word "disrupt" should have turned something up.

Is a disrupted unit merely one that can no longer move in a turn unless it is reorganized? Are there any other benefits to disrupting enemy units? I thought I read something about a positive DRM for the attacker on the 2D10 chart when there are disrupted defenders. Are there any benefits on the 1D10 chart?

(2)I'm close to bringing my second monitor out of the basement so I can put the main form and other forms on the second monitor and maximize screen real estate for the map. Is there a way to increase the size of the main form? It's a bit hard to read on my widescreen monitor so I know it will be even more difficult on a smaller one.

Thanks!

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Post #: 1
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 3:45:20 PM   
willbowe

 

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The short answer to your question is that you should be searching for DISORGANIZED rather than DISRUPTED. As far as I'm concerned though, the term is "disrupted". Disrupted land units can't move and can't attack. With 1d10 combat, the attacker gets a +1 bonus on the roll for *each* disrupted unit. With 2d10, it's +2 for face-down corps and +1 for face-down divisions. The real killer is when units are disrupted *and* out-of-supply, in which case they are only worth 1 in defence, or 3 if they're white-print. Face-down air units which are overrun are destroyed instead of being able to rebase. Face-down ships are also in trouble, but that's more complex and you should refer to the rules.

< Message edited by konevau -- 11/15/2013 4:46:06 PM >

(in reply to Ubercat)
Post #: 2
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 3:51:46 PM   
willbowe

 

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I find the Word document rules for the board game which you can download from the ADG site to be easier to work with than the PDF that comes with the computer game, notwithstanding that there are a few minor differences (e.g. face-down units are indeed "disrupted" rather than "disorganized").

http://www.a-d-g.com.au/download/WiF-RaW-7-aug-04.zip

< Message edited by konevau -- 11/15/2013 4:53:03 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 4:00:36 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


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Utilizing the advanced search available in your adobe reader can be very helpful.

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Post #: 4
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 4:01:17 PM   
brian brian

 

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I think 'disorganized' is used over 'disrupted' as a pair with the 'reorganize' process. In the paper game, counters are either face-up or face-down to indicate this. The paper game concept of "white-print" units (indicated by white-inked factors on the counters) is replaced in MWiF by "elite" units.

It's worth noting that an extra +2 on the 2d10 table is basically an odds column shift up for the attacker. It is nearly the same with a +1 on the 1d10 table, though that table isn't perfectly symmetrical on every odds column, and there is no 6-1 column. But +1 on the 1d10 is still very good to have. The prime way to disorganize an enemy unit is via the Ground Strike mission; air assets are quite powerful in World in Flames.

Also it is worth noting that using a 5 tactical factor aircraft (Stukas, etc.), to ground-strike and possibly disorganize a single 5 factor defending land unit is not worth an air mission to do it, nor the chance it doesn't work. A 5 factor Ground Strike has a 50% chance of success. Adding 5 factors of Ground Support (which doesn't count against air mission limits, unlike Ground Strike) to an attack on a 5 factor defending ground unit automatically raises the odds level by one column, or +2 on the 2d10 table. It's tricky at times.

(in reply to willbowe)
Post #: 5
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 4:19:27 PM   
FroBodine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Also it is worth noting that using a 5 tactical factor aircraft (Stukas, etc.), to ground-strike and possibly disorganize a single 5 factor defending land unit is not worth an air mission to do it, nor the chance it doesn't work. A 5 factor Ground Strike has a 50% chance of success. Adding 5 factors of Ground Support (which doesn't count against air mission limits, unlike Ground Strike) to an attack on a 5 factor defending ground unit automatically raises the odds level by one column, or +2 on the 2d10 table. It's tricky at times.


Great stuff brian brian, as always! In game, how do you use the UI to differentiate between using an air unit for a ground strike vs. using it for ground support to add to the ground combat odds? Are they different game phases, so just by moving the air unit onto the enemy hex during the appropriate phase, it determines ground stike or ground support?

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 6
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 4:19:59 PM   
Dr. Foo


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quote:

Utilizing the advanced search available in your adobe reader can be very helpful.


+1000!

ctrl-F is your friend.

< Message edited by Dr. Foo -- 11/15/2013 5:20:22 PM >


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RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 4:24:33 PM   
Dr. Foo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier


In game, how do you use the UI to differentiate between using an air unit for a ground strike vs. using it for ground support to add to the ground combat odds?


They are different sub-phases. I believe if a unit is used for a ground strike it is not available for ground support. Therefore, some planning is needed to make sure if you are conducting ground attacks you will have available units for ground support. Also, arty may be used for ground attack and does not count as an air mission.


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Post #: 8
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 4:39:29 PM   
Joseignacio


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With some very few exceptions where units can do two things in an "impulse" (mini-turn, since a turn is 2 months and composed of several impulses of each side), all the units can only do one attack sub-phase . Either you strat bomb OR you Carpet Bomb OR you ground strike OR you support combat.

The only exception I can think right now of a unit which can take part in 2 subphases would be an HQ in combat, can give HQ support in one subphase and combat along with the others in a later one.

After units are disorganized (in any case) they cannot do anything until they are organized again except defend with penalties. HQs and some ships and planes can reorganize units, and HQs can only be so, by spending O Chits.

And all of them may be at the end of the turn (several impulses).

Fighters can be used only once, like the examples of bombers above.


< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 11/15/2013 5:44:06 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 5:05:44 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: konevau

The short answer to your question is that you should be searching for DISORGANIZED rather than DISRUPTED. As far as I'm concerned though, the term is "disrupted". Disrupted land units can't move and can't attack. With 1d10 combat, the attacker gets a +1 bonus on the roll for *each* disrupted unit. With 2d10, it's +2 for face-down corps and +1 for face-down divisions. The real killer is when units are disrupted *and* out-of-supply, in which case they are only worth 1 in defence, or 3 if they're white-print. Face-down air units which are overrun are destroyed instead of being able to rebase. Face-down ships are also in trouble, but that's more complex and you should refer to the rules.

I removed face-down and face-up from the Players Manual, and RAC. Instead I used disorganized and organized. I avoided using disrupted, but some of those might have slipped through. The reason I don't like disrupted is the 'rupted' is not a word. Also there are reorganization phases in which disorganized units become organized. So I decided to simply use 'organized' as the base word when discussing unit states.

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Post #: 10
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 5:56:51 PM   
willbowe

 

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Yes, good decision. Though of course, we old hands will be saying "disrupted" till the end of our days!

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Post #: 11
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 7:53:42 PM   
Zorachus99


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The real old ones, like me and my associates, actually say that their units are 'flipped' more often than not.

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RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 7:57:25 PM   
Dr. Foo


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I have a dumb question.

Are the Rules as Coded, the rules I should be reading in regards to the PC game and the Vol. 1 and 2 are for board play?

Or, should I be reading all three books?

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RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 8:20:26 PM   
SamuraiProgrmmr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian


Also it is worth noting that using a 5 tactical factor aircraft (Stukas, etc.), to ground-strike and possibly disorganize a single 5 factor defending land unit is not worth an air mission to do it, nor the chance it doesn't work. A 5 factor Ground Strike has a 50% chance of success. Adding 5 factors of Ground Support (which doesn't count against air mission limits, unlike Ground Strike) to an attack on a 5 factor defending ground unit automatically raises the odds level by one column, or +2 on the 2d10 table. It's tricky at times.


Tricky is the right word for it! The decisions are deep.

Consider these exceptions...

Unless you are likely to cut off the defender's supply before making the attack, in which case being disorganized AND out of supply reduces their defense value to 1...

Unless it is an elite unit (white print) in which case the defense value will only be reduce to 3...

Unless cutting off their supply before the attack relies upon another attack which fails only on a 1 and that singular number is rolled.

I am not refuting brian brian' point. It is valid. However, with EVERYTHING in this game, the mechanics of how things actually unfold can really give you some interesting things to think about.


Dr Foo...

What I have read of Book 1 will certainly apply to both the computer and board game. It is a very faithful port from cardboard to electrons and the same tactics apply.


< Message edited by SamuraiProgrammer -- 11/15/2013 9:22:45 PM >


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RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 10:29:08 PM   
Grotius


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Steve, the only instance in which I see "Disrupted" is when I contemplate moving a unit beyond its movement allowance (e.g., into a Swamp). The cursor then turns into "DISRP" or something like that.

Anyway, I'm glad you went with "organized" and "disorganized." It would not have made sense to carry forward "flipped" and "unflip" to a computer version of WIF.

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RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/15/2013 11:11:48 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

I have a dumb question.

Are the Rules as Coded, the rules I should be reading in regards to the PC game and the Vol. 1 and 2 are for board play?

Or, should I be reading all three books?

RAC (a modification of Australian Design Group's Rule as Written for the board game) contains the rules that MWIF uses. The other two volumes include most of the ADG Scenario Booklet, which is not part of RAW, but much more importantly describe all the forms that MWIF uses to gather information about the game-in-progress and make decisions. Volumes 1 and 2 also describe the Player Interface in general using a lot of screen shots (205+).



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Post #: 16
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/16/2013 1:37:32 AM   
Ubercat

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Utilizing the advanced search available in your adobe reader can be very helpful.


I did search the PDF's as I mentioned in the OP.

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Post #: 17
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/16/2013 1:40:16 AM   
Ubercat

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I think 'disorganized' is used over 'disrupted' as a pair with the 'reorganize' process. In the paper game, counters are either face-up or face-down to indicate this. The paper game concept of "white-print" units (indicated by white-inked factors on the counters) is replaced in MWiF by "elite" units.

It's worth noting that an extra +2 on the 2d10 table is basically an odds column shift up for the attacker. It is nearly the same with a +1 on the 1d10 table, though that table isn't perfectly symmetrical on every odds column, and there is no 6-1 column. But +1 on the 1d10 is still very good to have. The prime way to disorganize an enemy unit is via the Ground Strike mission; air assets are quite powerful in World in Flames.

Also it is worth noting that using a 5 tactical factor aircraft (Stukas, etc.), to ground-strike and possibly disorganize a single 5 factor defending land unit is not worth an air mission to do it, nor the chance it doesn't work. A 5 factor Ground Strike has a 50% chance of success. Adding 5 factors of Ground Support (which doesn't count against air mission limits, unlike Ground Strike) to an attack on a 5 factor defending ground unit automatically raises the odds level by one column, or +2 on the 2d10 table. It's tricky at times.


Thanks! Searching for "disorganized" gave me the motherload of results. I didn't realize that "disruption" was either a deprecated or inappropriate term. And thank you also konevau for giving more details.

Does anyone know if there's a way to enlarge the main form and other forms so that they're easier to read?

< Message edited by Ubercat -- 11/16/2013 2:50:14 AM >


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RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/16/2013 1:43:38 AM   
Ubercat

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

quote:

Utilizing the advanced search available in your adobe reader can be very helpful.


+1000!

ctrl-F is your friend.


Thanks. I tried CTR-F. The search was equally effective as the one I'd already tried, which for the term "disrupt" was not much.

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Post #: 19
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/16/2013 2:40:16 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Utilizing the advanced search available in your adobe reader can be very helpful.


I did search the PDF's as I mentioned in the OP.


That was meant for konevau. Sorry I wasnt clear about that.


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RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/16/2013 6:21:54 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I think 'disorganized' is used over 'disrupted' as a pair with the 'reorganize' process. In the paper game, counters are either face-up or face-down to indicate this. The paper game concept of "white-print" units (indicated by white-inked factors on the counters) is replaced in MWiF by "elite" units.

It's worth noting that an extra +2 on the 2d10 table is basically an odds column shift up for the attacker. It is nearly the same with a +1 on the 1d10 table, though that table isn't perfectly symmetrical on every odds column, and there is no 6-1 column. But +1 on the 1d10 is still very good to have. The prime way to disorganize an enemy unit is via the Ground Strike mission; air assets are quite powerful in World in Flames.

Also it is worth noting that using a 5 tactical factor aircraft (Stukas, etc.), to ground-strike and possibly disorganize a single 5 factor defending land unit is not worth an air mission to do it, nor the chance it doesn't work. A 5 factor Ground Strike has a 50% chance of success. Adding 5 factors of Ground Support (which doesn't count against air mission limits, unlike Ground Strike) to an attack on a 5 factor defending ground unit automatically raises the odds level by one column, or +2 on the 2d10 table. It's tricky at times.


Thanks! Searching for "disorganized" gave me the motherload of results. I didn't realize that "disruption" was either a deprecated or inappropriate term. And thank you also konevau for giving more details.

Does anyone know if there's a way to enlarge the main form and other forms so that they're easier to read?

Very few forms can be enlarged. For example, the setup tray and naval combat selection forms can be expanded horizontally. The Naval Review Details form can be expanded vertically.

But as to making the forms larger, no. Sorry, but they are all designed to fit within a 1024 by 768 screen.

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Post #: 21
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 1:59:54 AM   
Ubercat

 

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I don't know if this is a bug or not.

I'm starting a solo Global War game and while trying to finish setting up the US, I received a popup saying that I was in violation of the US Japan trade agreement because I didn't have sufficient convoys in several Pacific sea zones. I was given the opportunity to fix the problem, but I'm physically unable to place the convoys in at least one of the named zones.

I ended up ending the phase and moved on to setting up the USSR. Does this sound like a bug? Should I try to recreate the problem and do a save file?

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Post #: 22
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 2:18:44 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat

I don't know if this is a bug or not.

I'm starting a solo Global War game and while trying to finish setting up the US, I received a popup saying that I was in violation of the US Japan trade agreement because I didn't have sufficient convoys in several Pacific sea zones. I was given the opportunity to fix the problem, but I'm physically unable to place the convoys in at least one of the named zones.

I ended up ending the phase and moved on to setting up the USSR. Does this sound like a bug? Should I try to recreate the problem and do a save file?

The US convoys are not all the same for that scenario. Some of them are required to be within range of the US home ports. Others are required to be within range of Honolulu.

Most likely you were trying to place one of the former in a western Pacific sea area, too far from the US home ports. There should have been a message at the bottom of the Main form explaining why the convoy couldn't be placed where you wanted it. If you place the US convoys in the sea areas close to the western coast of the US, that should free up other convoys that are based in Honolulu.

At the beginning of the setup phase, when all the units are in the Setup Tray, it is pretty clear which convoys are which. But after you have them all on the map, telling them apart isn't possible. Sorry.


< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 11/18/2013 3:19:21 AM >


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Post #: 23
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 2:30:37 AM   
Ubercat

 

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Thanks for the fast reply (and the fantastic game). I'll start over and do it right.

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Post #: 24
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 6:39:07 AM   
terje439


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In an attempt to make this "THE noob Q-thread", I'll post my questions here;
1. Do any of the more veteran players ever place German convoys outside of the Baltic? Seems to me that is a sure way to waste some BPs as the CW will bounce on those convoys asap??
2. Is there a tactical factor number that makes you automatically think "nah, I will not ground strike with this unit, I will use it for added combat value instead"? I tend to use all 5 factor Stukas to ground strike and all others to aid in the attacks. Any input here?
3. Removing planes. Do you guys use this? I tend to not place units if they are weak (early German TACs etc) and save the pilot, and it seems to me those 5 A2A factor Bf109s are useful all the way (although somewhat short legged), so I never remove them.
4. If using synthetic oil, should Germany and Japan build as many as possible or just one or two early on? (I understand that the earlier I build them, the greater the return, and that after a given point they will end up costing more than they provide).
5. How many BBs/CA/CLs do you build as the CW? My thinking is that there are so many other things that the CW needs, and that the RN is already quite sizeable, so not sure here at all.

Terje

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Post #: 25
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 7:34:16 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat

I don't know if this is a bug or not.

I'm starting a solo Global War game and while trying to finish setting up the US, I received a popup saying that I was in violation of the US Japan trade agreement because I didn't have sufficient convoys in several Pacific sea zones. I was given the opportunity to fix the problem, but I'm physically unable to place the convoys in at least one of the named zones.

I ended up ending the phase and moved on to setting up the USSR. Does this sound like a bug? Should I try to recreate the problem and do a save file?


I ran into the same thing ubercat. I couldn't move/select the convoys to make it right once they were in the sea areas. I ended up setting up everything, including the transports, and then saved the game. That allowed me to try whatever combo it was with the convoys to get the correct placement. Seems like all the required sea areas needed at least 4 convoy points in those zones. Youll notice that the ones for the Western US are able to be placed quite a ways away into the areas.


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Post #: 26
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 9:12:52 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat

Thanks for the fast reply (and the fantastic game). I'll start over and do it right.
warspite1

Hope I understand your problem correctly:

- Did you remove Sentry status when trying to move the convoys? (Right click on the counter and then untick sentry)
- Best thing to do is use 5 CP from "United States" and put in the West Coast
- Use the 3x 5 CP counters in "Honolulu" and place these in the Hawaiian Islands, Central Pacific and Mendochino. That will satisfy the rules.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/18/2013 10:14:29 AM >


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Post #: 27
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 10:15:01 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

- Did you remove Sentry status when trying to move the convoys? (Right click on the counter and then untick sentry)



That was it. Thanks Bob.


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Post #: 28
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 1:43:23 PM   
brian brian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

In an attempt to make this "THE noob Q-thread", I'll post my questions here;
1. Do any of the more veteran players ever place German convoys outside of the Baltic? Seems to me that is a sure way to waste some BPs as the CW will bounce on those convoys asap??
2. Is there a tactical factor number that makes you automatically think "nah, I will not ground strike with this unit, I will use it for added combat value instead"? I tend to use all 5 factor Stukas to ground strike and all others to aid in the attacks. Any input here?
3. Removing planes. Do you guys use this? I tend to not place units if they are weak (early German TACs etc) and save the pilot, and it seems to me those 5 A2A factor Bf109s are useful all the way (although somewhat short legged), so I never remove them.
4. If using synthetic oil, should Germany and Japan build as many as possible or just one or two early on? (I understand that the earlier I build them, the greater the return, and that after a given point they will end up costing more than they provide).
5. How many BBs/CA/CLs do you build as the CW? My thinking is that there are so many other things that the CW needs, and that the RN is already quite sizeable, so not sure here at all.

Terje


1. all in the Baltic. things could change in a SeaLion type game.

2. of course ... it all depends. 5 pt Stukas are great for Ground Strikes, sure. But on the surprise impulse, they are worth 10 factors of Ground Support for no Air Mission cost. against a single 5 point defending unit, a 5 point Stuka flying Ground Support for an attack against it is the same thing as a successful ground strike in most situations. (not all). 4 factor planes...same. 3 factor planes...still OK against a stack of 3 enemy units, maybe...you be the judge. 2x rolls on Surprise of course, always good. weak Japanese planes ... fly all of them on a Ground Strike against a single hex might work as good as all as Support, esp. in the mountains. it's easy to forget the option of taking an Air Impulse to re-org a lot of planes, including a bonus one with your ATR possibly not otherwise employed that turn. your land units don't move, but your air are powerful.

3. removing planes is ... I'll say infrequent. an older plane can have a great run of luck in combat but eventually be simply too old and has to be shipped home. or a single type can take a lot of losses and you need to pull a different type from the map and reach into your Reserves for the missing type.

4. when to build Axis SYNTH. opinions differ. from a purely accounting stand-point, the earlier the better, yes. but an Axis oil crunch doesn't really develop until the middle of the game at the earliest. an early build means you have less units to use to expand while the Allies are weak; 2-3 INF class units might gain you more goodies from the Allies than the accounting returns of building SYNTH ASAP. I take the latter view but I think more people look at the former. Also depends on strategy. Germany in a 42 Barbarossa or Sea Lion will need them more than a Germany planning to conquer the entire Mediterranean perhaps.

5. CW BB. lots of ways to go. their newer BBs populating the Construction Pool through the first year are eventually nice to have as they move fast and thus can make better task forces with the CW fleet carriers. but they are a bit of a luxury item better finished after the first year or two of the war when infantry in large amounts are far more important. more economical than building those is simply keeping them out of the Repair Pool....ask the Americans to do this for you. I don't ever lay down hulls for brand new ones or finish many CA/CL, if any.

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 29
RE: Dumb questions thread - 11/18/2013 1:46:15 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 2772
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
oh and not using the Fractional Odds optional changes everything about using aircraft, keep that in mind.

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 30
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