Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

The AI Bread Crumbs

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Flashpoint Campaigns Series >> Scenario School >> The AI Bread Crumbs Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The AI Bread Crumbs - 11/10/2013 12:22:37 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13250
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
The AI is hungry and it wants all the bread crumbs. It will come and take the breadcrumbs away from you.

SAFELY!

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 11/10/2013 1:22:46 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Post #: 1
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 11/10/2013 12:39:30 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13250
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
You need to give the AI the crumbs it needs to get to the final reward.

To do that I layer the Victory Locations (VL's) and their locations.

Here you see where the Soviet player has his forces set in the center of the map. The AI can move them in any direction it wants freely.

What are my objectives in this battle? Which by the way, is A Time To Dance.

I have several objectives and this is how we make them work for you.

1) I want the Soviets to be able to absorb some punishment and not get penalized too much for it. To do that I put a 1500 VL very close to their setup. They will take it almost immediately and now have 1500 points worth of units they can lose that have already been paid for so to speak.

2) I want the AI approaches flexible. The Soviet forces are near the center of the map and can go easily in any direction.

3) I want the objectives to get successively larger so that they draw the AI forward. The AI is hungry and will continue to take your breadcrumbs from you. It will follow the trail of VL's that you give it.

The key here is it will do it SAFELY. It won't rush to it's own destruction as most games do. And it will determine by that safety if it should go for the 3000 VL, or the 2500 VL, or neither of them determined on that level of safety.

4) I want an alternate route just in case. There is a 1500 VL in the bottom center of the map. If the AI gets stopped going west or north it will look for that 1500 VL and swing forces south. Once it does it will then move west and come up on the south side of Bad Neustadt if it needs to.

I could have put a 1500 VL in Hollstadt as well but with the 2500 VL in Wollbach that is enough to pull Soviet forces north if it wants to go that way. (For those of you that have played A Time To Dance at least twice you will probably have seen the AI do this to you.)




With VL's in place, the forces set on the map, it's time for you to playtest this to make sure it does what you want it to do.

Good Hunting.

MR

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 11/10/2013 1:41:53 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 2
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 11/10/2013 12:57:33 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1160
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
Thanks. I was wondering how to "encourage" the AI to maneuver along certain lines and this should help me do it. Obviously it will react once contact is made but it helps me somewhat develop a pre-contact plan I can hope it will follow.

_____________________________


(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 3
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 11/17/2013 4:57:42 PM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline
One thing I have noticed with the AI is that despite losses it pushes on with heavily reduced units to the point where I noticed a solo T80 heading down a road into a killzone covered by 2 plts of tanks

Is there any scope within the AI to pull back weak forces into defensive positions e.g. guarding captured VL, or will it push on with weak units mingled with full strength units

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 4
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 11/17/2013 7:23:09 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13250
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
The AI defends VL's 'off'. Meaning it doesn't sit right on them.

It advances by path of least resistance. Whatever that path is. That's why each time you play it may well chose another path to move/attack by because your units aren't the same as last time. Either strength wise or their exact location on the map.

They will garrison VL's. Try to go retake one and you'll find that out in a hurry. Recapturing VL's won't turn the AI around either. It calculates the relative values and goes for the highest value with the lightest defense.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Tazak)
Post #: 5
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 11/18/2013 12:31:54 AM   
deadsunwheel


Posts: 106
Joined: 1/22/2010
Status: offline
Great tip MR, thanks!

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 6
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/10/2016 5:14:25 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 1599
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
Can the AI be encouraged to conduct a fighting withdraw?

Kevin

(in reply to deadsunwheel)
Post #: 7
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/10/2016 6:31:57 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 7323
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
Kevin, not really in Red Storm. We don't have any way to tell the AI to pull back. That is one order we are adding to Southern Storm (along with other things) to improve play.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 8
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/10/2016 10:58:01 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 1599
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
Cool, thanks for the reply.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 9
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/10/2016 11:42:50 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 7323
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
Kevin. I've not tried this, but you could test a withdrawal type fight by starting defenders around owned VPs and then spacing backward away from the attack higher value contested VPs. You could also have the AI defenders start inactive at those defenses which would hold them in place until they spot enemies or get fired on. After that the AI will kick in and depending on the situation the Contested VPs may look better to grab and the AI would retreat back. Steve may be able to comment better being our scenarios designer guru. He is back in town after a family vacation.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 10
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/11/2016 4:35:31 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 1599
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
Interesting. Have to give that a try in conjunction with the "islands" of resistance scenario I started to toy with. Here the map is divided into six equal zones, 3 with red set ups and 3 with blue. Each set up contains equal unit points based on armor, mech infantry, an arty battery, scout and attack chopters and AA. The owner of each zone is random and each setup contains a VP hex. The total of the 6 VPs equals the total of all unit points for red and blue. It plays out like a probe where the human player has to decide where to hold and where to strike based on scouting reports. I guess it sort of simulates the re-positioning that might have occurred after hypothetical balloon went up and the front was a convoluted mess.

Kevin

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 11
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/14/2016 1:24:30 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 1599
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
Here is an example quick to make and place recon at a premium:
(How do you attach a pic?)


< Message edited by kevinkin -- 7/14/2016 1:30:40 PM >

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 12
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/14/2016 3:50:37 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 7323
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
Kevin, use Post reply, it has an option for images. Not the quick reply at the bottom.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 13
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 7/14/2016 4:17:17 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 1599
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
Here is an example. Quick to make and places recon at a premium. Certainly very hypothetical.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by kevinkin -- 7/14/2016 4:20:57 PM >

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 14
RE: The AI Bread Crumbs - 2/27/2019 10:53:39 AM   
StuccoFresco

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CapnDarwin

Kevin. I've not tried this, but you could test a withdrawal type fight by starting defenders around owned VPs and then spacing backward away from the attack higher value contested VPs. You could also have the AI defenders start inactive at those defenses which would hold them in place until they spot enemies or get fired on. After that the AI will kick in and depending on the situation the Contested VPs may look better to grab and the AI would retreat back. Steve may be able to comment better being our scenarios designer guru. He is back in town after a family vacation.


I think i'm going to do this a lot.


Quick question: I'm starting to think the AI is too keen on attacking head-on over several hours despite heavy losses. How can I avoid this? Do I have to rely on the VPs' placement in this case too, like in the first post?

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 15
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Flashpoint Campaigns Series >> Scenario School >> The AI Bread Crumbs Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.154