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Micromanaging - 8/30/2013 7:23:38 PM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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Which parts of the game do you think are worth micromanaging, and which are not? And what are your tips to micromanage effectively?

I (obviously) manage my ships and colonies (= what I build on them and what planets I colonize), also Research.
I'm going to try designing my own bases next game (but I have no idea what's important there).

I'm particularly interested in resources and troops. Are they worth micromanaging?
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RE: Micromanaging - 8/30/2013 8:14:06 PM   
mSterian

 

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I'm in an early game of everything on manual.
It's fun really. You start paying more attention to every little detail, and every little detail matters.

The frustration though, comes when you realize you've went a bit without doing a research cause you forgot to select the next research. Or when you have to manually retrofit everything.

But most of all, it's the damn designs. I'm such a perfectionist, I sometimes stare and calculate like mad what component to put on a ship. But that's not what's frustrating. That is actually rewarding, to see your ship in action exactly how you designed it. The nasty part comes when you've finished your designs, retrofitted eveything, and just set everything in motion, when... due to your extraordinary research speed (Quamenos) you unlock yet another component!!! And guess, what, it has a different size, different energy consumptio or output and sometimes I have to redesign everything again even though I've just done that 10 minutes ago.

I think a new type of manual design should be implemented, where you just adjust sliders for usual things like speed, armor, shield, mining speed, etc etc, and the game keeps replacing components to match that ratio when new components are unlocked.
Redesigning everything from scrath after every component gets very tedious.

< Message edited by mSterian -- 8/30/2013 8:15:39 PM >

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/30/2013 9:01:02 PM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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I know that problem with research^^

I usually lose track of what happens as soon as midgame begins. Too much stuff happens at the same time, and as soon as I go to war I practically instantly lose. There's just no way to keep track of everything AND fight a war!

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/30/2013 9:45:01 PM   
mSterian

 

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Well... you can certainly do it once you know the game well enough, pause constantly, and never go beyond 0.25 speed.
But it gets tedious.

I'm still trying to find a balance between automation and micromanagement.

As I said, redesigning all ships and bases after every research completion gets really boring.

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 12:05:43 AM   
Larsenex


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I usually sand bag 2, 3 or even 4 technical upgrades and then go and redesign fleets and bases.

I used to redesign on every breakthru, but now I hold off for at least 3. Also I crank up Research costs to 980K, and I start at whatever is below tech 1.

Oh and I never let the AI redesign but I do allow auto upgrades when I approve them. So if I get Fusion reactors it will ask if I want to upgrade. I say yes BUT it will do nothing. What that allows is when I go back to the design page I can select one or all items and hit the 'auto upgrade' button and they design will be upgraded with all the tech I previously approved.

If i do not do this the design will not upgrade and fleets will not seek to retrofit. This helps with the always retrofitting crap I have had in my games.

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 2:30:49 AM   
Icemania


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Great thread idea F0rdPrefect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mSterian
The frustration though, comes when you realize you've went a bit without doing a research cause you forgot to select the next research. Or when you have to manually retrofit everything.

But most of all, it's the damn designs. I'm such a perfectionist, I sometimes stare and calculate like mad what component to put on a ship. But that's not what's frustrating. That is actually rewarding, to see your ship in action exactly how you designed it. The nasty part comes when you've finished your designs, retrofitted eveything, and just set everything in motion, when... due to your extraordinary research speed (Quamenos) you unlock yet another component!!! And guess, what, it has a different size, different energy consumptio or output and sometimes I have to redesign everything again even though I've just done that 10 minutes ago.

I think a new type of manual design should be implemented, where you just adjust sliders for usual things like speed, armor, shield, mining speed, etc etc, and the game keeps replacing components to match that ratio when new components are unlocked.

Redesigning everything from scrath after every component gets very tedious.

I find the most tedious part is early in the game so have 3 save files at key points in the early game that include learning from past games.

After that I agree with Larsenex, upgrade in logical technology groups.

After the early game I tend to upgrade in tiers e.g. when I get Shockwave Torpedoes I'll upgrade everything else in the design and do a mass upgrade ... then do nothing until Plasma Torpedoes etc.

Military ships are a little more frequent as when refuelling at a major world I'll often take the opportunity to retrofit at the same time. I only have 1 military ship design (and 1 troop transport and 1 explorer) to help keep it simple.

When on manual Research Speed is really important to optimise to suit your preference, I personally enjoy the pace of Expensive Research.

With this combination I find this part of the game far more rewarding than tedious.





< Message edited by Icemania -- 8/31/2013 2:31:37 AM >

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 2:35:09 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: F0rdPrefect

Which parts of the game do you think are worth micromanaging, and which are not? And what are your tips to micromanage effectively?

I (obviously) manage my ships and colonies (= what I build on them and what planets I colonize), also Research.
I'm going to try designing my own bases next game (but I have no idea what's important there).

I'm particularly interested in resources and troops. Are they worth micromanaging?

Tax is very easy to manage manually with a large payoff. Early game, once have the funds to support it, 0% tax is critical to encourage growth. Once at maximum population the odd check to optimise tax / happiness is all that is needed. For new or conquered colonies always 0% tax again until they hit maximum population.

On designs there are some really good threads around so I would suggest delving into older pages on the forum.


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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 2:43:05 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: F0rdPrefect

I know that problem with research^^

I usually lose track of what happens as soon as midgame begins. Too much stuff happens at the same time, and as soon as I go to war I practically instantly lose. There's just no way to keep track of everything AND fight a war!

Mid game involves a lot of pausing and I suppose a good gauge of the most important things to check which comes with practice. I find the majority of pauses are very ship / fleet focused then other aspects of the game only as required.

I like a really busy game. Once I have the funds I'll normally build 5-7 fleets that are almost constantly at war somewhere.

Perhaps play on the smallest maps and with very few other empires / independents / colonies?


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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 2:46:52 AM   
Icemania


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With Explorers I really struggle with using "Move to" commands even though it will help find goodies faster. Once you have a large fleet of explorers the constant need to command them really becomes tedious. So I tend to just use the "Explore" command.

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 9:35:16 AM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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@Icemania Problem is: Apparently you can't scale down the map in RotS :\

You can only scale down the amount of stars, but I don't like big, empty galaxies.

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 10:10:50 AM   
Icemania


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I like big busy galaxies and still greatly enjoy full manual play. You don't need to keep track of everything ... simplify ... for example:

1. With Exploration ships I wait for messages for the end of mission and then command them to go to the next unexplored system. I don't track them individually unless I find something interesting (e.g. debris fields, super luxury etc). Every now and again during a pause I'll check for any Explorers that are idle i.e. I've missed the end of the mission message.

2. Construction ships are similar, command manually, wait for end of mission, otherwise I don't track them individually.

3. Early to mid-game I'll start a few defence ships in each system. I don't track them except for pausing when a colony/base is attacked to ensure they are responding quickly. Every now and again I check through each system to check the status of those defence ships.

Sorry I can't comment on RotS as I only started playing after Legends.


< Message edited by Icemania -- 8/31/2013 10:12:31 AM >

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 11:00:38 AM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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The stuff about defense ships sounds reasonable. I had a huge pirate problem in my last game (although I found no bases o.O I wonder where they came from).

About construction ships... Reading through the forums they seem to be a big deal. What do you use them for? I only needed them for some research and defense stations so far.

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 11:23:32 AM   
Icemania


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Construction Ships are extremely important to build mining bases and gas mining bases so that you have plenty of supply of strategic resources firstly and secondly luxury resources. Those resources provide all sorts of benefits. Repairing abandoned ships around the galaxy can provide you powerful ships or technology boosts if retired.

Mining

AAR

< Message edited by Icemania -- 8/31/2013 11:26:54 AM >

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 11:39:20 AM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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So, it's about having a lot of construction ships and letting the AI doing the rest? (Except for abandoned ships)

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 11:50:03 AM   
Icemania


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I always have Construction ships on manual. The missions take a little while so I don't find the micro annoying at all. If you control manually you'll better prioritise the resources targeted, you can build in more defensible positions, and once you have enough bases you can avoid overbuilding bases. By mid-game almost all of my Construction are repairing ships.

As far as I'm concerned the AI does nothing well and there are always benefits to manual control.

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 11:53:37 AM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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Building mining stations manually sounds like a lot of work, though.

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 11:58:19 AM   
Icemania


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Not really, early game building 20-30 bases is enough to provide the resources needed for the first wave of expansion and fleets. The better you get the economy going early the more fleets you'll be able to fund on attack duties ...





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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 12:32:08 PM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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So about 3-4 bases for every strategical resource?

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 12:49:08 PM   
Icemania


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Read more here F0rdPrefect: The Guide to Guides

Some resources you need more than others. Steel and Caslon you need more of these for example so build bases for these first and then progressively build others. Look at the stock you have in expansion planner and once you have 10k in stock for each strategic you have enough bases (at least until later). Focus on building bases for resources where you have the least stock rather than building to a predefined number of bases.


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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 12:59:30 PM   
Fenrisfil

 

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Starting in pre-warp I micromanage everything except taxes. The AI in that stage is particularly bad as it is almost identical to the post-warp AI (The only difference being that it does at least prioritise researching the first two warp techs when it has access to them). So my first space station often has no guns on it, after all it won't have any shields and armour and the faster I can build it the faster I can get those explorers out there. My first explorers are insanely heavy on engines because obviously no hyperdrive, the civ ships and constructors are likewise heavier on engines and I simply don't build military ships until I have some warp tech. I control each explorer and constructor at this stage (explorers go straight for the ruins, deviating only if something is close to their flight path).

Gradually as the game goes on I allow more automation. But generally speaking I still micromanage a lot. I have every single one of my military ships in fleets and use small ones defensively covering most of my planets, I always control (and hot key) offensive fleets. Explorers get micromanaged until they have explored all nearby sectors (I hate it when they all head for the same planet at that stage, so instead I send one to explore each nearby sector and that way they are also spread out so there is always a handy one to get to any revealed location). Constructors get controlled in the early stage of the game until I have all the key resources and nearby research/resort bases I want. I usually will keep at least one constructor on manual always. Troop recruitment I may keep on manual for the whole game, or at least until I have so many colonies it becomes a major headache. I like to build offensive troops from key worlds (Either the homeworld and wherever else gives the best race or special bonuses, this reduces the need for troop facilities and maximises their capabilities) and in the early-mid I game I'll even use troop transports to drop good defensive troops quickly on to vulnerable new worlds. I always control character location, espionage, diplomacy and colonisation.

I control research, HOWEVER I don't turn off automation! I see above people saying about forgetting and researching nothing, well if you leave automation on and simply select multiple things to research then that will never happen. I usually have the next ten items lined up for research and then if I do forget to line up more the AI will at least be researching something. I don't know why anyone would want to turn the AI off on research as it doesn't de-select things you've selected, it just provides a backup.

Design is a more complex thing. I've tweaked all the design templates so the AI designs are closer to my tastes anyway. However the AI does get confused about which technology is better and the only way around that is to design manually. I do it on a case by case basis. Often my war ships are manual and everything else automatic. Bases I try to leave on automatic but if the AI completely fails to design sensibly with what is available I will step in.

The only thing I regularly leave for the AI is taxes. I used to do that manually, but it gets tiresome.

When at war I'm often at .5 speed or .25 when in battle. Mostly because I enjoy seeing the space battles. There comes a time in a large enough galaxy where I would consider stepping back as there is just too much going on at once (especially if I've upset a number of pirates), but usually by then I've actually already won the game and so I just stop playing and start a new one instead.

Anyway, that's what I do. I would say that at a minimum you should fully micromanage pre-warp (unless you want to deliberately not get ahead of other pre-warp factions) and that you should always manage your espionage and your research (in the way described above where you are controlling it via multi-selection but leave automation on as a back up). Also if your leaving ship design on auto check it now and then to make sure the AI hasn't randomly decided that it doesn't want to use your special racial tech or something like that.



< Message edited by Fenrisfil -- 8/31/2013 1:03:20 PM >

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 4:18:40 PM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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Thank you Fenrisfil, although I only own RotS ;)

Ice, I thought that was a guide about creating guides :D
I will take a look at it. Looks very helpful!

edit: Oh, and something else. Troops. I think I can load them on a ship via the extenden right click menu, right? But how do I get them to attack a planet?

edit: What does a good small/medium/big spaceport design look like?

< Message edited by F0rdPrefect -- 8/31/2013 4:35:58 PM >

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RE: Micromanaging - 8/31/2013 6:25:55 PM   
Fenrisfil

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: F0rdPrefect

Thank you Fenrisfil, although I only own RotS ;)

Ice, I thought that was a guide about creating guides :D
I will take a look at it. Looks very helpful!

edit: Oh, and something else. Troops. I think I can load them on a ship via the extenden right click menu, right? But how do I get them to attack a planet?

edit: What does a good small/medium/big spaceport design look like?


Lol. Well the design/espionage tips still stand along with checking for crazyness in AI designs (I didn't start playing until Legends so don't know what the RotS AI was like), specifically make sure it's using racial techs and the right "fork" choices (the tech level 3/4 techs where there are multiple options).

You get your troops to attack the planet simply by selecting either the troop carrier or the fleet it's in and right clicking on the planet you want to invade. You can also do it via the extended menu for either the planet or the system (the later being handy if the planet has an annoyingly large space port making directly clicking on it difficult).

As for spaceport design, well that's probably more down to personal preference. However I normally try and make sure I have a lot of long range weapons on my medium/large space ports so enemies can't just sit out of range and pound on it. Mostly you want to consider exactly what role you want each size port to perform and how many of each you are likely to build.

For me the small space ports are more about providing their utility roles rather than defence, so I make them as slimline as possible (while not leaving them too vulnerable). If the AI isn't putting long range scanners on them I will add those but I usually remove all the research labs as I'll be hitting those targets elsewhere.

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RE: Micromanaging - 9/1/2013 5:59:29 PM   
F0rdPrefect

 

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Just downloaded Legends, will try it after dinner. Looking forward to it!

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RE: Micromanaging - 9/2/2013 12:38:50 PM   
Icemania


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Have fun F0rdPrefect!

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RE: Micromanaging - 10/17/2013 10:30:38 AM   
sbach2o

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fenrisfil

Starting in pre-warp I micromanage everything except taxes.


Micromanaging taxes on your home world is by far the most influential task regarding long term development.

The thing to do regarding taxation is to keep your homeworld's tax at zero for as long as you can afford. When you do need money, tax as heavily as you can without your population rebelling - I like to keep their happiness at zero or slightly above, as there may be some risks involved when pushing it lower.

If you come into the situation that you feel you need to tax your homeworld before it has reached max population, you should consider to establish a colony or two (expensive and time consuming, and depending on your technological development not feasible early game) or invade an indy or neighbor to encourage your civil sector to spend money on transport ships, just to get cash reserves so you can lower taxes to zero for a time again.

This switching between no tax and 'maximum tax' will let your homeworld's population rise faster to the maximum level than any other strategy. Your homeworld will for a very long time be the only worthwhile source of money (unless you take over a rival empire's homeworld), and the taxes you do earn are totally proportional to the population of a given planet (times development level, times corruption factor and so on...), so the faster you have it max out there, the more you'll get back later, with big, fat interest.

This is, arguably besides controlling exploration manually, the one most important aspect of this game where micromanagement pays off. Neglecting it is equivalent to raising the overall difficulty (which may be completely desireable, regarding how easy it can become when you micromanage too much).

< Message edited by sbach2o -- 10/17/2013 11:20:20 AM >

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RE: Micromanaging - 11/12/2013 9:39:13 PM   
Nanosplic


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All good advice, I will try to micromanage as much as possible in my next game I think (only dowloaded the game a couple of weeks ago and have just started playing my 2nd game), so I'm quite a noob to DW, but loving it so far!

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RE: Micromanaging - 11/13/2013 11:59:22 AM   
Jeeves


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I micromanage everything, which takes about 20 minutes per game day once I have a couple thousand ships and several hundred colonies...

Lonnie Courtney Clay


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