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Support units leading a move

 
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Support units leading a move - 8/27/2013 12:53:18 PM   
dazkaz15


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I have been playing in a style that I don't usually play in, and I am finding a lot of bugs that I was not aware of before because of it.

I usually play in a micro managed, and very careful way, but as I don't have a lot of time at the moment, and this is a very large scenario I have been using large formations, and just experimenting a bit with them.

This is one of the bugs, another that is far more serious, will require a lot more time to explain, so it might take a while for me to get round to doing it.

Will email the save to support@Panther




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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/27/2013 1:46:17 PM   
vandorenp

 

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Yes I have experienced this often and have posted about it in the development area a couple of times. Over the years some things have been done to improve this. Now I experience it when I leave (allow) stragglers checked. When that happens it appears the order of march is fastest to slowest. When you don't allow stragglers then everything is as it should be. Except that a single out of fuel platoon can hold up an entire regiment or division if that is the way you issue your order. You have to find the culprit and cut it away. That is issue separate orders.

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/28/2013 8:07:20 AM   
dazkaz15


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vandorenp

Yes I have experienced this often and have posted about it in the development area a couple of times. Over the years some things have been done to improve this. Now I experience it when I leave (allow) stragglers checked. When that happens it appears the order of march is fastest to slowest. When you don't allow stragglers then everything is as it should be. Except that a single out of fuel platoon can hold up an entire regiment or division if that is the way you issue your order. You have to find the culprit and cut it away. That is issue separate orders.


That's very interesting thank you.

So un-checking allow stragglers will see the formation stay in the right order of march?

What in effect is happening here then, because stragglers is allowed, the combat brigades are moving slower than the support units, probably because they are moving more tactically, but the support units have been given permission to leave them behind?

If I un-check the allow stragglers then the support units will be forced to wait for the slower combat brigades to clear the route first?

I have never used that check box before as I always thought it preferable to get to where I wanted to be as fast as possible, but this would seem one of those situations where it is needed.

So this may well be working as designed?
Can anyone confirm that please?

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/28/2013 8:10:03 AM   
phoenix

 

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That is indeed really interesting, Vandoeenp. Will experiment with it. Thanks.

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/28/2013 3:26:01 PM   
skarp

 

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I think I've caught the Enemy AI doing this and leading straight into an ambush. I'm very frustrated with how buggy the game appears to be all of a sudden. Orders disappearing. Facing set to north not auto. Inaccurate command delays reported. Limited timed missions - instead of defend until end of scenario it defaults to something else. Artillery ignoring prime targets and resting instead. Supplies arriving but no ammo delivered...

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/28/2013 4:13:37 PM   
phoenix

 

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Skarp. Orders disappearing - is that not only when the timing expires? I agree the facing boxes are a strange mess sometimes. You have to double check at the end of setting all your parameters because, for instance, just ticking certain things not related to facing seems to flick the box round 90 degrees. It's cosmetic, though, I think, as long as you're aware of it. Limited timed missions - is that not only the new Move estimates (and certain others - Secure Crossing, for example) - Defend still defaults to end of scenario? The arty resting when you would prefer it to hit something? Not sure how we would decide that was a bug. People seem to suggest the arty is far too powerful and swift to react in this game, compared to real life. Supplies? That's complex. Worth you going into detail, I think, so that eventually things can get fixed. Though I would assume it's always to be never ending, the list of possible improvements. It's trying to mimic life and I guess that's a tall order that can only be handled (by, basically, one coder - Dave) incrementally, which, with Panther being so small, has turned out to be years, and on-going. But I don't think it's more buggy now. Far from it. I think it's getting better and better. Much less buggy now than it used to be, no?

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/28/2013 7:08:31 PM   
skarp

 

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I phoenix thanks for the response. I played this game since RDOA - I wasn't too interested in COTA but returned to BFTB and just had to have the new HTTR when I discovered it has been released. I'm very familiar with how units generally behave and how the game works I hope. Just lately I've noticing some glitches and things not going right.

Defend is now hit or miss whether it'll default to end of scenario. As deny crossing and others. This might be happening with some defence moves that never happen and eventually expire. Not much use when you just want a gun to travel 100 meters to engage some tank!

Similarly when ordering units often default facing is north not auto.

I've successfully defended the Nijmegen crossings with massed mortars and the 376 artillery. Normally I attach all to 508 Regt Hq and let him manage a defence in situ. Previously I've seen him hammer away with arty against anyone crossing on the bridges. This time round with all the same settings the AI just lets the hun waltz across without a shot being fired. I've resorted to setting fire missions but unless I tick no rest (the action is at night) often nothing happens. So I keep an eye on every arty unit but then I find someone has stopped firing for no apparent reason in the middle of a long bombard mission.
Then there's supply. You may have seen the post about units not getting any. I thought it was cured but now my infantry companies are not receiving any .30 calibre.

I'm not bothered whether they are bugs or features. All I want is consistency.

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/28/2013 9:27:44 PM   
dazkaz15


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There are a few annoying bugs still, but the core game itself is playing better than ever now, in my opinion.

So much so that the minor bugs become more annoying lol

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/29/2013 1:13:41 AM   
Arjuna


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There is another possible explanation for the bridging unit leading the way. If you issue a Move order and there is a river across the route that needs bridging, then the AI will segment the Move into an initial Move to the crossing that needs to be bridged, followed by a Construct Bridge task and then another Move task to the objective. It may be that the bridge unit is moving independently to the crossing. I'll check out the save a bit later.

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/29/2013 5:10:06 PM   
vandorenp

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dazkaz15

There are a few annoying bugs still, but the core game itself is playing better than ever now, in my opinion.

So much so that the minor bugs become more annoying lol


i agree. I started with in in 06 and remain fascinated with it. Just now winding up Knock on All Doors, again, for uploading. Presumably for more beta testing.

My latest experience with this is when giving a regiment an exit order. If [allow] stragglers is checked the base will be one of the first units at the exit. And then it exits leaving all the other units without a supplier. If a a unit runs out of fuel there is no supplier. Eventually the map boss picks it up and some time latter gets around to refueling the culprit. Took me a little while to discover the truth. the map boss connection is master if you outright assign the unit a mission. What i arrived at was to make the order a Move order. Once there is a quorum in the vicinity of the exit I give the exit order with [allow] Stragglers off.

Out of fuel units can now hang up the exit as the whole formation waits for it. So you give that unit its own order to the rest can go on. The kludge is irksome.

Another problem with exits is the point settings. Once the amount for a type is reached no more units of that type may exit. If such a unit doesn't exit then all its superior HQs do not exit. If a regiment is given and exit order and has excess points subordinate to it the exit should take all the units regardless. Player just does not get a point bonus from the excess.

I would be lying if I said that glitches did not bother me as a player but I try to equate such to the real world inexplicable events that foul up operations. My experience as an infantry officer and my militarily history reading tells me that it is normal for all manner of improbable things occur to make a mess of your plans. Take for instance the Panzer Lehr commander causing a drop in the division momentum in front of Bastogne when he spent the night entertaining a US Army nurse captured with a Field Hospital. And before that his "mistake" sending the whole division down a farmers track on the word of a local farmer. I learned early as a mech platoon leader that a mechanized company can turn a muddy road into a quagmire in minutes. Most veterans know that you must always confirm what you learn for civilians and soldiers alike.

It would be great if a player could query a units commander and as em "what is your major malfunction Colonel?"

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/29/2013 6:35:20 PM   
phoenix

 

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That's all really useful too, Vandorenp - re the exit orders. Cheers. Keep passing these things on!

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/29/2013 8:12:53 PM   
vandorenp

 

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welcome.

BTW my messages are signed Keydet. Or you can use Paul V

When i registered i didn't know that the login ID was going to my tag name in the forum.

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RE: Support units leading a move - 8/29/2013 9:13:06 PM   
dazkaz15


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vandorenp


It would be great if a player could query a units commander and as em "what is your major malfunction Colonel?"


Great post Paul, thanks mate :)

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