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Name that ship - 8/26/2013 10:12:27 PM   
Gunner98


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I suspect that it will only be a few minutes before she is identified but this is the first time I have seen this one...

BG




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RE: Name that ship - 8/26/2013 10:20:08 PM   
Hotschi

 

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DD-480 Halford.

You should rename the jpg before uploading it

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RE: Name that ship - 8/26/2013 10:28:59 PM   
Gunner98


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Ouch Well the real trick is the modification it is sporting in the photo. Anyone able to ID it and provide any info?

BG


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RE: Name that ship - 8/26/2013 11:00:42 PM   
Cannonfodder


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Strange sight, the floatplane on a destroyer...

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RE: Name that ship - 8/26/2013 11:28:43 PM   
spence

 

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According to Wiki the catapult modification only lasted a few months (Jul-Oct 43). After that the catapult was removed and the second torpedo mount, 5" mount and the 40mm mount replaced by the catapult in that class were "re-installed". I remember building a model of a US destroyer back when I was a kid that had a catapult/floatplane. Couldn't tell you the name of that ship "immortalized" by Revell or Aurora though (now you know how long ago).

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RE: Name that ship - 8/26/2013 11:29:21 PM   
Boomer Redleg


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quote:

DD-480 Halford


HALFORD was one of six destroyers constructed with a cruiser catapult and scout observation plane mounted on the deck house aft of number two stack. Because of the tactical changes, HALFORD returned to Mare Island, California in the fall of 1943 for alterations which replaced the catapult with a dual-purpose, five-inch 38 calibre gun mount, and a quadruple 40MM anti-aircraft gun.

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RE: Name that ship - 8/26/2013 11:55:15 PM   
wdolson

 

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A couple of the old flush decks had float plane handling gear and a catapult added in the late 30s as an experiment. I think the added top weight made them somewhat unsteady and they were modified back to other uses. The USS Noa was one of them.

Later a handful of Fletchers were modified, but the USN was moving away from floatplanes by mid-war and their original role as artillery spotters was pretty much gone. Radar did a much better job. The floatplane Fletchers were all modified back to stock configurations to make better use of the space.

Bill

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 12:35:34 AM   
geofflambert


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Welcome to the WitP-AE forum, Boomer-Redleg.

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 12:44:52 AM   
Terminus


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Never really understood why a close-in fighter like a destroyer should be fitted with a highly-flammable floatplane, even as an experiment.

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 3:18:45 AM   
Ddog

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Never really understood why a close-in fighter like a destroyer should be fitted with a highly-flammable floatplane, even as an experiment.



I could see it if the DD were tasked for ASW or some sort of scouting role.

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 3:27:15 AM   
wdolson

 

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I believe that was the thinking that DDs with float planes could be used for scouting.

Bill

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 4:20:10 AM   
Boomer Redleg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Welcome to the WitP-AE forum, Boomer-Redleg.


Thanks for the welcome.

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 5:06:22 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Never really understood why a close-in fighter like a destroyer should be fitted with a highly-flammable floatplane, even as an experiment.


Could help on scouting? most "destroyer leaders" like the Japanese CLs were fitted with floatplanes,




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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 3:31:21 PM   
MateDow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Never really understood why a close-in fighter like a destroyer should be fitted with a highly-flammable floatplane, even as an experiment.


I think that there could have been a couple of different roles for these ships. Note: these are just my theories and I have no documentation to back it up.

One would be extended ASW patrolling with the aircraft. These ships were designed prior to the CVEs that demonstrated that a small carrier could be built quickly. Most of the interwar designs were large and expensive. This would allow for air cover of mid-ocean convoys. Is actually rather similar to the post-war frigates and destroyers with helicopters.

Another would be additional float planes for fleet work. With the expected attrition of float planes over a battle, there would have been a need for additional spotters. It would also allow for the use of a destroyer float plane for ASW while the fleet's planes were used for spotting.

I also don't think that the US appreciated how quickly that it would be able to build cruiser sized ships with a "real" air department. For mobilization purposes, a confirmed and tested design for a destroyer sized ship would make sense with the ability to quickly turn out conversions if necessary.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 9:01:44 PM   
SimHq Tom Cofield

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Never really understood why a close-in fighter like a destroyer should be fitted with a highly-flammable floatplane, even as an experiment.


Could help on scouting? most "destroyer leaders" like the Japanese CLs were fitted with floatplanes,





That was the original role of the Omaha class cruisers as well. They were essentially upgunned and larger destroyer escorts from the first world war.


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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 9:04:29 PM   
Terminus


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The USN saw the floatplane as an artillery observation platform first, and everything else a very distant second. FPs were already on the way out when this experiment happened.

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RE: Name that ship - 8/27/2013 10:59:51 PM   
SimHq Tom Cofield

 

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Yeah, most were gone by 1950. Interestingly many ships now carry helicopters that do the same job.

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Post #: 17
RE: Name that ship - 8/28/2013 12:43:06 AM   
wdolson

 

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Helicopters on ships today don't serve all the same roles as floatplanes. Mostly floatplanes were there as gunnery spotters. When radar started taking over, a lot of ships lost their floatplanes. The Japanese had long range FPs used as scouts, but that was a secondary role for the USN. As the war went on they were also used for air-sea rescue. USN FPs could carry small depth bombs, but they were not great ASW platforms.

Helicopters today are primarily air-sea rescue and ASW as well as COD (mail and spare parts delivery at sea). It's easier for a "small" ship to carry a helo today because first off they don't need the cranes and catapult, but also most warships are larger than their WW II counterpart. The tonnage on a modern USN destroyer is closer to a treaty cruiser from the 1930s. There is more room for the air department.

Bill

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RE: Name that ship - 8/28/2013 1:14:24 AM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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floatplanes was one of the few places it was not good to have
self-sealing tanks


kingfisher with range 9 a lot more useful than range 6

the concept is definitely appealing, every destroyer launching its floatplane

as it was, a full squadron of SBD was stuck performing naval search

cruiser launched floatplanes was (in theory) a major way for the Japanese to compensate for the smaller complement of AC on their carriers

always have chitose / chiyoda GLUED to tone / chikuma as search elements for kido butai

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RE: Name that ship - 8/28/2013 2:43:27 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


cruiser launched floatplanes was (in theory) a major way for the Japanese to compensate for the smaller complement of AC on their carriers

always have chitose / chiyoda GLUED to tone / chikuma as search elements for kido butai


I don't know if this work fine IRL, but in game I am very frustrated with the Chitose/ Chiyoda, I have one with KB, another with mini-KB ; and bottom line is that I still need to keep at least 10 to 20 % of my carrier bombers planes in search; those FPs never fly

I think CS work better as AVs on steroids, disbanded in a forward base and FPs moved into the base.
I am looking forward to Dec 42, when I can convert them to CVLs

regards

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Post #: 20
RE: Name that ship - 8/28/2013 3:51:46 AM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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lot of it is weather effects in different hexes

have the 4 kongo BC and CS / CA with jakes all spread out in different hexes

want to have around 100 jakes on nav search

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Post #: 21
RE: Name that ship - 8/28/2013 4:47:08 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Spreading the CS/ CA is a great idea,

but I would prefer to keep the Kongos close to the CVs in case something goes horribly wrong

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Post #: 22
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