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Differences between this and Panzer Corps

 
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Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/27/2013 12:25:54 AM   
LRRP

 

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So I have Panzer Corps all the DLC and versions from Matrix. The game Germany At War interests me, but is it different enough to validate buying it. I would like to know how it is different from Panzer Corps both the good and bad. Thanks
Post #: 1
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/27/2013 3:07:31 AM   
Numdydar

 

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The biggest difference is that you are playing on real maps with the real units that were in that area at the time. Plus the campaign is based on the real areas and you will progress (or not) to the next real map versus a made up one like in PC. This is the main reason I bought GaW was because of the campaigns as I wanted real maps and units versus quasi ones . So if you to play PC on real maps with the actual divisions, then you will like the game. If you do not care, then it is just a new version of PC and may or may not be something you want.

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RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/27/2013 4:09:16 PM   
LRRP

 

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Numdydar, thanks for the info.

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RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/29/2013 8:34:06 PM   
rogo727


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Sorry have to step in here. Folks I want to tell you that Warsaw and Moscow are very much real in PC I doubt very much this poster has every single dcl in PC. If he did I don't think he wouldn't have made such ignorant statements. Quasi maps still chuckling about that. I own both games. While it is clear that if anyone other than matrix/slitherine put out this game a lawsuit would surley follow on how the other company stole the main idea from PC.. This game would have done better if they named it PC2... Same game larger maps but minus the heros. Don't think I will buy any expansions for this tho as it is clearly not an original theme no matter how hard they try to say it is.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

The biggest difference is that you are playing on real maps with the real units that were in that area at the time. Plus the campaign is based on the real areas and you will progress (or not) to the next real map versus a made up one like in PC. This is the main reason I bought GaW was because of the campaigns as I wanted real maps and units versus quasi ones . So if you to play PC on real maps with the actual divisions, then you will like the game. If you do not care, then it is just a new version of PC and may or may not be something you want.



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

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Post #: 4
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/29/2013 11:14:49 PM   
LRRP

 

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thanks Rogo

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Post #: 5
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 12:17:50 AM   
colberki

 

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GaW from my standpoint is the redevelopment of Panzer General on the eastern front that I had hoped PC would be but it was not the case. It has the same realistic feel of PG while retaining the original quick play fun. WiTE is the ultimate Eastern Front realistic game followed by Decisive Campaigns. I have all these games too. So I hope the developers will continue to support this direction of future developments with GaW. I very much prefer the PG like victory conditions as opposed to some of the alternate and often "unhistorical" victory conditions that was in the PC DLCs. I am ready to buy further add ons for GaW.

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Post #: 6
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 12:36:39 AM   
Anton

 

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It's been a long, long time since I played any of the Panzer General games, so I don't exactly recall how they handled supply, but no one can justifiably say Germany at War offers a very realistic solution to supply. Basically, units can resupply anywhere as long as you've got resources and the unit is not within enemy ZoC. Also, I don't recall how aircraft worked in PG, but I wish in this game that they actually had a range in which they could fly and then automatically return to base. As it is now, they move just like the ground troops do. Maybe if these two game mechanics were adjusted, we could say that GaW has a more realistic feel. Until then, I can't actually claim this game is any more "realistic" than PG.

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Post #: 7
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 2:37:04 AM   
rogo727


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Yes I agree with you. Taking Warsaw and Paris and driving on Moscow are "unhistriocal" for the Germans in PC and I can't believe slitherine would even dare to put these objectives into PC when clearly the Germans had not the resources or men to do so. Having been a PG player for almost two decades I am wondering if this poster ever played that game or something else. In panzer general you just captured victory hexes and nothing more. Don't get me wrong GAW is a nice spin off from PC.
quote:

ORIGINAL: colberki

GaW from my standpoint is the redevelopment of Panzer General on the eastern front that I had hoped PC would be but it was not the case. It has the same realistic feel of PG while retaining the original quick play fun. WiTE is the ultimate Eastern Front realistic game followed by Decisive Campaigns. I have all these games too. So I hope the developers will continue to support this direction of future developments with GaW. I very much prefer the PG like victory conditions as opposed to some of the alternate and often "unhistorical" victory conditions that was in the PC DLCs. I am ready to buy further add ons for GaW.



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to colberki)
Post #: 8
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 3:26:21 AM   
Numdydar

 

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Deleted

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 7/30/2013 3:27:28 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 3:27:01 AM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Sorry have to step in here. Folks I want to tell you that Warsaw and Moscow are very much real in PC I doubt very much this poster has every single dcl in PC. If he did I don't think he wouldn't have made such ignorant statements. Quasi maps still chuckling about that. I own both games. While it is clear that if anyone other than matrix/slitherine put out this game a lawsuit would surley follow on how the other company stole the main idea from PC.. This game would have done better if they named it PC2... Same game larger maps but minus the heros. Don't think I will buy any expansions for this tho as it is clearly not an original theme no matter how hard they try to say it is.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

The biggest difference is that you are playing on real maps with the real units that were in that area at the time. Plus the campaign is based on the real areas and you will progress (or not) to the next real map versus a made up one like in PC. This is the main reason I bought GaW was because of the campaigns as I wanted real maps and units versus quasi ones . So if you to play PC on real maps with the actual divisions, then you will like the game. If you do not care, then it is just a new version of PC and may or may not be something you want.




You should not make assumptions about people and what they have played and what they know. I have all the DLC for PC and have played all the stock PC campaigns and all the Eastern Front DLCs. So I think I know what I am referring to when I compare PC to GaW.

The maps for the DLCs are NOT historical in the sense that they 100% (or even 80%) match the actual terrain the battles in PC fought over. The maps in PC give the historical flavor of the battles (which works well). However, GaW is using the actual terrain and maps that the battles were actually fought over. So if you are going to do that, then you need to provide the actual experience that the troops at the scale of GaW had. Not the flavor as in PC, but the actual decisions that the commanders had to make. Which so far in GaW is lacking.

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 10
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 8:16:37 AM   
Vasquez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Don't get me wrong GAW is a nice spin off from PC.



GaW is the successor from "Operation Barbarossa" (linky: http://www.matrixgames.com/store/374/Operation.Barbarossa.-.The.Struggle.for.Russia ) which was released 2009. Therefore PC was a spin off from PG and GaW ;)

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(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 11
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 11:07:23 AM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

Sorry have to step in here. Folks I want to tell you that Warsaw and Moscow are very much real in PC I doubt very much this poster has every single dcl in PC. If he did I don't think he wouldn't have made such ignorant statements. Quasi maps still chuckling about that. I own both games. While it is clear that if anyone other than matrix/slitherine put out this game a lawsuit would surley follow on how the other company stole the main idea from PC.. This game would have done better if they named it PC2... Same game larger maps but minus the heros. Don't think I will buy any expansions for this tho as it is clearly not an original theme no matter how hard they try to say it is.


I actually thought that was one of the poorer parts of PC (and some PG titles): that the scale of the map jumps all over the place. It wasn't good for my immersion when I suddenly had to clear Moscow block by block (which didn't change the campaign) with the same units that I had previously used on an operational scale. The heavy resistance in Moscow also seemed unrealistic, compared to how the rest of the campaign went. To me, it felt like an arcadey level.

_____________________________

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Post #: 12
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 2:28:33 PM   
colberki

 

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I have played Panzer General series countless times. One reason is liked PG (and Steel Panthers) was that you can capture Moscow and Washington. In the PC DLC campaigns you can't change the course of the war. PC DLC is about the journey with your core units but one always end up defending Berlin in 1945. Admittedly, Panzer Afrika Corps did allow the Germans to achieve a far fetched victory in India which I enjoyed. Hence in the same vein GaW is very fun and my sort of game. . Too realistic we could end up like WiTE where us players are strongly divided where one side feels the designers have decided to make German victory nigh high impossible. A design decision that has left me wanting to go back to War in Russia game design wise. If GaW changed direction and became so realistic that Soviet always crushes the Germans I won't be playing this game anymore.

Ronald sir - please stay the course!

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 13
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 4:31:58 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Hi LRRP,

Have you already read the developer's notes here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3370923

I think for anyone who plays and enjoys Panzer Corps, this release should be an easy decision. If you would enjoy another Panzer Corps release, you will enjoy this one. They are different games, each with their own strengths, but I think it would be almost a 100% guarantee given the gameplay that if you enjoy one you'll enjoy the other. I see GAW as a somewhat more historical take on the Panzer General style of gaming. A bit less puzzle oriented and a bit less "what if" with real named units and maps at a consistent scale, along with a large campaign that allows you to choose the course of Operation Barbarossa.

Regards,

- Erik


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Post #: 14
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 10:15:13 PM   
rogo727


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Remember the 999th infantry division in which you faded away? Want to start again?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vasquez


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Don't get me wrong GAW is a nice spin off from PC.



GaW is the successor from "Operation Barbarossa" (linky: http://www.matrixgames.com/store/374/Operation.Barbarossa.-.The.Struggle.for.Russia ) which was released 2009. Therefore PC was a spin off from PG and GaW ;)



< Message edited by rogo727 -- 7/30/2013 10:27:56 PM >


_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Vasquez)
Post #: 15
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 10:27:31 PM   
rogo727


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While I agree with more or less in which you say... Make no mistake while I do like this game it's origin is clearly in PC.. The problem I have is when people say in which they claim to own PC (so called) is they say PC is historically inaccurate which is a false statement.. I have been playing GAW FOR THREE straight days now and like it. They are both great games . While just from the forums I can see that this game will fizzle out in time I don't see maybe more than one expiation if only at that. It's clearly "not" original just like if there was no "the good the bad and the ugly". Surely no BLAZZING saddles would have been made.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi LRRP,

Have you already read the developer's notes here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3370923

I think for anyone who plays and enjoys Panzer Corps, this release should be an easy decision. If you would enjoy another Panzer Corps release, you will enjoy this one. They are different games, each with their own strengths, but I think it would be almost a 100% guarantee given the gameplay that if you enjoy one you'll enjoy the other. I see GAW as a somewhat more historical take on the Panzer General style of gaming. A bit less puzzle oriented and a bit less "what if" with real named units and maps at a consistent scale, along with a large campaign that allows you to choose the course of Operation Barbarossa.

Regards,

- Erik




_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 16
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/30/2013 10:33:31 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Rogo727,

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
While I agree with more or less in which you say... Make no mistake while I do like this game it's origin is clearly in PC.. The problem I have is when people say in which they claim to own PC (so called) is they say PC is historically inaccurate which is a false statement.. I have been playing GAW FOR THREE straight days now and like it. They are both great games . While just from the forums I can see that this game will fizzle out in time I don't see maybe more than one expiation if only at that. It's clearly "not" original just like if there was no "the good the bad and the ugly". Surely no BLAZZING saddles would have been made.


I'm not sure what your point is - both Germany At War and Panzer Corps are based on the original Panzer General style of gameplay. Technically neither is original, yet each provides a different take on that gameplay which makes it worth playing and a different experience than the original PG.

I agree they are both great games. I play and enjoy both, we publish both. When comparing Germany at War and Panzer Corps though, Germany at War was designed to be more historical is the best way to differentiate them. Panzer Corps was designed with a larger scope in terms of timeline and theaters, Germany at War focuses on one theater and tries to include some elements of less introductory wargames to make the scenarios play out a bit more realistically. That's not a statement that one is better than the other, it just depends what you are looking for.

As I said before, I don't see a real need to choose - if you like this kind of gameplay, you'll enjoy both.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 17
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/31/2013 12:55:58 AM   
colberki

 

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Operation Barbarossa was not so good for me. Really glad the "remake" is so much better. I have sent money and time down the toilet on other games and remakes but no names mentioned! (A certain Time of..... series) . Well done to Ronald and team!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 18
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/31/2013 1:50:10 AM   
rogo727


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Lol agreeded. I really should be offered a 401k plan as I have have bought just about every game you published....er wait I'm paying yours right?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Rogo727,

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
While I agree with more or less in which you say... Make no mistake while I do like this game it's origin is clearly in PC.. The problem I have is when people say in which they claim to own PC (so called) is they say PC is historically inaccurate which is a false statement.. I have been playing GAW FOR THREE straight days now and like it. They are both great games . While just from the forums I can see that this game will fizzle out in time I don't see maybe more than one expiation if only at that. It's clearly "not" original just like if there was no "the good the bad and the ugly". Surely no BLAZZING saddles would have been made.


I'm not sure what your point is - both Germany At War and Panzer Corps are based on the original Panzer General style of gameplay. Technically neither is original, yet each provides a different take on that gameplay which makes it worth playing and a different experience than the original PG.

I agree they are both great games. I play and enjoy both, we publish both. When comparing Germany at War and Panzer Corps though, Germany at War was designed to be more historical is the best way to differentiate them. Panzer Corps was designed with a larger scope in terms of timeline and theaters, Germany at War focuses on one theater and tries to include some elements of less introductory wargames to make the scenarios play out a bit more realistically. That's not a statement that one is better than the other, it just depends what you are looking for.

As I said before, I don't see a real need to choose - if you like this kind of gameplay, you'll enjoy both.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 19
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 7/31/2013 11:36:10 AM   
ComradeP

 

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rogo727: If you play PC's DLC, the game quickly becomes historically inaccurate. The maps might be somewhat accurate, but the units you're facing are not necessarily accurate. By 1943, I'm running around with a 15 strength Aryan supermen core with the usual Tigers and engineers in halftracks that the Soviets can't hope to stop, because they have worse experience in the DLC, which seems to be primarily balanced for stand-alone play and not a continuous campaign. It's the same problem PG had: at some point, your core just becomes way too good and scenarios are not balanced towards that.

That, and the unit selection, is why I think PC doesn't offer a historically accurate simulation. The Zitadelle scenarios, for example, should be very difficult if not impossible, but in reality they are easy with a good core.

I enjoyed the original game, but the DLC was too easy after a certain point, although that was presumably changed with the 1945 DLC (which I haven't played).

Also: the idea that PC is "original", or that a game like GaW spawned from it, is flawed.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 7/31/2013 11:38:07 AM >


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RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/1/2013 12:37:15 PM   
Alchenar

 

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There is literally nothing about PC that can be described as 'realistic' or 'historically accurate'.

These are not 'simulation' wargames and it's absurd to try to hold them to a standard that they have no interest in meeting. PC, like UoC and similar titles, are puzzle games with a theme of WW2 set on their rules. It's ridiculous to talk about unit designations and map historicity when really we're playing with counters on a map board in a computer. The only thing that matters is if the puzzle is interesting or not.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 21
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/2/2013 7:00:08 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

There is literally nothing about PC that can be described as 'realistic' or 'historically accurate'.

These are not 'simulation' wargames and it's absurd to try to hold them to a standard that they have no interest in meeting. PC, like UoC and similar titles, are puzzle games with a theme of WW2 set on their rules. It's ridiculous to talk about unit designations and map historicity when really we're playing with counters on a map board in a computer. The only thing that matters is if the puzzle is interesting or not.


+1

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Post #: 22
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/5/2013 4:34:31 AM   
rogo727


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Well on Sargent level my cat could also do that. I think your response is really biased.. (Play on Rommel ). Then report back... I have spent the last few days playing nothing but this... It's a great game! GAW. That is. again with any game the higher the difficulty the harder it is. The two games are very much the same feel. If you don't like PC. You probably wouldn't like this. It's games like this that scream "put me on a tablet".
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

rogo727: If you play PC's DLC, the game quickly becomes historically inaccurate. The maps might be somewhat accurate, but the units you're facing are not necessarily accurate. By 1943, I'm running around with a 15 strength Aryan supermen core with the usual Tigers and engineers in halftracks that the Soviets can't hope to stop, because they have worse experience in the DLC, which seems to be primarily balanced for stand-alone play and not a continuous campaign. It's the same problem PG had: at some point, your core just becomes way too good and scenarios are not balanced towards that.

That, and the unit selection, is why I think PC doesn't offer a historically accurate simulation. The Zitadelle scenarios, for example, should be very difficult if not impossible, but in reality they are easy with a good core.

I enjoyed the original game, but the DLC was too easy after a certain point, although that was presumably changed with the 1945 DLC (which I haven't played).

Also: the idea that PC is "original", or that a game like GaW spawned from it, is flawed.



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 23
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/5/2013 4:37:21 AM   
rogo727


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From: Iowa
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Again with this... Guess Warsaw is located in France then? Nonsense !
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

There is literally nothing about PC that can be described as 'realistic' or 'historically accurate'.

These are not 'simulation' wargames and it's absurd to try to hold them to a standard that they have no interest in meeting. PC, like UoC and similar titles, are puzzle games with a theme of WW2 set on their rules. It's ridiculous to talk about unit designations and map historicity when really we're playing with counters on a map board in a computer. The only thing that matters is if the puzzle is interesting or not.



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 24
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/5/2013 11:41:36 AM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

Well on Sargent level my cat could also do that. I think your response is really biased.. (Play on Rommel ). Then report back...


I believe I played on Colonel or General for the first playthrough. In my opinion, games should be balanced on "normal". PC isn't. My comments concern a reproducable result. Play through all the DLC starting in 1939 and check if the Soviets offer much opposition by 1943.

If you have a campaign with that many linked scenarios, attempts should be made to balance the entire campaign, or it quickly becomes uninteresting. I faced that issue with both PG2 and with PC. The core you could create was just too good.

Fewer player prestige and experience or something like additional AI strength should not be required. Sure, it's a nice option for those who want an additional challenge, but it should not be a requirement to keep the game interesting during a campaign.

The campaign for the original PC, which I tested, was OK, but in the DLC the attempt to link a large number of scenarios without offering multiple versions of the scenarios (with various starting strengths based on which DLC you started with), can quickly make things too easy after a certain point.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 8/5/2013 11:43:51 AM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 25
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/5/2013 1:48:20 PM   
rogo727


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Well of course I knew you were playing on one of the easiest levels. I didn't want someone who was thinking about buying PC, Be influenced by your bias comments about that game...again I state as with any game the higher the difficulty the more challenging it can be. I'm happy to see for someone who has not played PC, on the highest levels can state "can quickly make things too easy" which is a flawed in so many ways.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

Well on Sargent level my cat could also do that. I think your response is really biased.. (Play on Rommel ). Then report back...


I believe I played on Colonel or General for the first playthrough. In my opinion, games should be balanced on "normal". PC isn't. My comments concern a reproducable result. Play through all the DLC starting in 1939 and check if the Soviets offer much opposition by 1943.

If you have a campaign with that many linked scenarios, attempts should be made to balance the entire campaign, or it quickly becomes uninteresting. I faced that issue with both PG2 and with PC. The core you could create was just too good.

Fewer player prestige and experience or something like additional AI strength should not be required. Sure, it's a nice option for those who want an additional challenge, but it should not be a requirement to keep the game interesting during a campaign.

The campaign for the original PC, which I tested, was OK, but in the DLC the attempt to link a large number of scenarios without offering multiple versions of the scenarios (with various starting strengths based on which DLC you started with), can quickly make things too easy after a certain point.



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 26
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/6/2013 12:16:34 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
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You seem to feel games should not be balanced on "normal" difficulty (100% is "normal"), but should require significant advantages for the AI before they are challenging to some extent. I disagree. A game should not require significant advantages for the AI in terms of prestige and unit experience, or something like fewer player turns, to be challenging.

To me, it's a campaign design issue if you have a very long campaign, don't offer scenario variants to provide any kind of scaling to account for a better core, and have to give the AI serious advantages from the start to keep things interesting. Sadly, that was one element where PC was no different from PG.

A higher difficult will presumably also make the game much more puzzle-like, as there's a much narrower margin for error.

You're essentially saying the player, not the designer, is responsible for how difficult a game is.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 8/6/2013 12:19:49 PM >


_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 27
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/6/2013 6:35:49 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1334
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
Again while I respect your thoughts... I do feel the need to step in and respond when people make false statements about a game in which I like. It's good to read , and to see you back track and try to justify playing on easy levels. So thank you. Imagine buying a game with only one difficulty level! Please post more on your thoughts I'm enjoying this.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

You seem to feel games should not be balanced on "normal" difficulty (100% is "normal"), but should require significant advantages for the AI before they are challenging to some extent. I disagree. A game should not require significant advantages for the AI in terms of prestige and unit experience, or something like fewer player turns, to be challenging.

To me, it's a campaign design issue if you have a very long campaign, don't offer scenario variants to provide any kind of scaling to account for a better core, and have to give the AI serious advantages from the start to keep things interesting. Sadly, that was one element where PC was no different from PG.

A higher difficult will presumably also make the game much more puzzle-like, as there's a much narrower margin for error.

You're essentially saying the player, not the designer, is responsible for how difficult a game is.



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 28
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/8/2013 12:22:03 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
I play on "normal", or whatever it is called in a certain game. I judge a game based on how balanced it is on that level. You might find it silly, but I find the very idea that the player should balance the game, not the designer, rather odd.

To me, that is one of the reasons why so many wargames have a simplistic AI, that doesn't put up much of a fight: those games often include ways to give bonuses to the AI, or penalties to the player, which to the designer somehow justified the mediocre performance of the actual AI.

If I would give myself 50% prestige, or the AI 150% or 200%, and some additional experience, it still doesn't make the actual AI better. At best, it gives it more to work with, but it can quickly feel quite artificial. For example, with more prestige the chance of a wall of units problem increases, where the AI places conscripts or some other cheap units around an objective so you can't take it on time.

Various penalties and bonuses also don't tackle the problem of having different campaign starting points, but just single scenarios regardless of the starting point.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 29
RE: Differences between this and Panzer Corps - 8/9/2013 4:32:48 PM   
GrumpyMel

 

Posts: 786
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Again with this... Guess Warsaw is located in France then? Nonsense !
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

There is literally nothing about PC that can be described as 'realistic' or 'historically accurate'.

These are not 'simulation' wargames and it's absurd to try to hold them to a standard that they have no interest in meeting. PC, like UoC and similar titles, are puzzle games with a theme of WW2 set on their rules. It's ridiculous to talk about unit designations and map historicity when really we're playing with counters on a map board in a computer. The only thing that matters is if the puzzle is interesting or not.




I have to agree with Alchenar on this. Don't get me wrong, PC is a fun beer n' pretzels game but as far as historical accuracy, it really doesn't enter in to the equation. Some of the maps are better then others but mostly it's not even trying for historical accuracy. Compare that to some of the more Grognard games like WitE or Decisive Campaigns or TOAW or even some of the Advanced Tactics scenario's and that starts to become evident.

I've played a bit of GaW so far and you can definately feel it's a bit better in that regard but it's still pretty beer n' pretzels which is perfectly enjoyable when you are in the mood for that.



(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 30
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