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Morale - Sequence of Calculations

 
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Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/25/2013 10:35:59 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1257
Joined: 9/26/2000
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2 Questions:

1. Are the morale effects additive??? Can a Soviet unit with a morale of 40, sitting in refit mode 10 hexes away from the closest supplied enemy unit receive a morale boost for each condition: 10 hexes away, in Refit 10 hexes from a supplied enemy unit and the 10% national morale boost?

2. In what order are they calculated which will of course make a difference in the final result.

Thanks



Post #: 1
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/25/2013 11:41:31 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1944
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		They are most certainly additive from what I have seen.

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Post #: 2
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/26/2013 12:17:40 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5083
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		1. yes and not sure about 2.

Low morale units can go from 30 to 50 in as little as 3 turns.

_____________________________

GHC
20 - 3 - 8

14 games ended in 41 (14-0-0)
6 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
7 games ended in 43 (2-2-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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Post #: 3
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/26/2013 1:40:27 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1257
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		"Low morale units can go from 30 to 50 in as little as 3 turns."

30 * 10% = 3; 3 + 30 = 33

33 * 10% = 3.3; 3.3 + 33 = 36.3

36.3 * 10% = 3.63; 36.3 + 3.63 = 39.93

In and of itself the 10% rule will bring a 30 morale unit to 40 in 3 moves, so if your observation is correct, then the effect is additive, multiplicative or both.


(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 4
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/26/2013 3:28:59 PM   
morvael


Posts: 2523
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: online 		Remember that this rule was changed to have a 15% chance to kick in, not 100%.

All rules for sure are meant to be additive (each one is separately calculated and applied), but perhaps some bug (like not clearing a variable that holds the bonus) makes some changes multiplicative.

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Post #: 5
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/26/2013 8:15:00 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"Low morale units can go from 30 to 50 in as little as 3 turns."

30 * 10% = 3; 3 + 30 = 33

33 * 10% = 3.3; 3.3 + 33 = 36.3

36.3 * 10% = 3.63; 36.3 + 3.63 = 39.93

In and of itself the 10% rule will bring a 30 morale unit to 40 in 3 moves, so if your observation is correct, then the effect is additive, multiplicative or both.




+ the in supply under 75% rule.

+ the 10 hexes from the front under 50 rule.

+ the under 50 in refit mode.

It does not say how many points per chance per rule.
The lower a units morale below 50 or NM the better the chance, PLUS there are ways to up the chances.

I would say the below 3 are 1-3 per bump as is winning or losing battles

So your looking at a possible jump from 30 to 41 in one turn, this is not a guess several other players have posted single turn jumps of 8,10 and 11 pts.

So 30 could easly go to 39, then 39+4+2+2+1+1 = 49 then 4+1+1+1+1= 57!!!!


_____________________________

GHC
20 - 3 - 8

14 games ended in 41 (14-0-0)
6 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
7 games ended in 43 (2-2-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


Global Warming
Religion of the Stupid

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 6
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/26/2013 8:35:37 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1257
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Or maybe not...depends on how things are coded...is there a ceiling?...are the calculations all based of the initial morale at the start of the calculations, or does the input morale number change after each calculation prior to the next....????

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 7
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/26/2013 9:09:04 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5083
Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Or maybe not...depends on how things are coded...is there a ceiling?...are the calculations all based of the initial morale at the start of the calculations, or does the input morale number change after each calculation prior to the next....????


I personally know that between 40-50, 50-60, 60-70,70-80,80-90 and 90-100 there is a %.

I know the % before the patch as I did a very LLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG test to prove NM was not working. Everyone said I was a nut job for a yr+, but I was proven right with the help of 3 other crazy people, same for replacement and refit bugs ect ect.

So its safe to say I know the % now, because I have taken the time as MT has to explore the limits of the fuel system. I probably will never know it as good as him. Its also safe to say we know how to improve our chances of getting more.

As SHC it should be easy to go from 30 to 50 in 3-5 turns.

I have gotten 7 points of morale in one turn on a 90 morale unit more then once, on the first turn so getting 5-10 on a 30 morale unit is really or should not be anything special.

Its allot of work but you can figure it out for yourself, no ai vs ai stuff is why it takes so dam long.




< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/26/2013 9:10:09 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
20 - 3 - 8

14 games ended in 41 (14-0-0)
6 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
7 games ended in 43 (2-2-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


Global Warming
Religion of the Stupid

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 8
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/27/2013 2:27:45 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1257
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		The conditions for augmenting and decreasing morale are succinctly described in the playbook; there is no magic unless of course you have discovered an irregularity. Every condition to augment morale applies to units either below 50, below 75 or below national morale. The only time morale should otherwise augment is successful combat, and if the rule works as written, only if the attacker, "retreats the defender when attacking." Perhaps forcing surrenders without retreat does not count as a successful combat for moral purposes, which should of course be reexamined if so.

If you have found another condition, please follow MT's gentlemanly example and post it as bug.

Marquo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 9
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/27/2013 5:07:13 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5083
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

The conditions for augmenting and decreasing morale are succinctly described in the playbook; there is no magic unless of course you have discovered an irregularity. Every condition to augment morale applies to units either below 50, below 75 or below national morale. The only time morale should otherwise augment is successful combat, and if the rule works as written, only if the attacker, "retreats the defender when attacking." Perhaps forcing surrenders without retreat does not count as a successful combat for moral purposes, which should of course be reexamined if so.

If you have found another condition, please follow MT's gentlemanly example and post it as bug.

Marquo



All with in the normal conditions as is MT's.

_____________________________

GHC
20 - 3 - 8

14 games ended in 41 (14-0-0)
6 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
7 games ended in 43 (2-2-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


Global Warming
Religion of the Stupid

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 10
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/27/2013 9:50:01 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1257
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		In any event, there is only one way to augment morale for high morale units, and that is victory in combat, and most have known this since their first game.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 11
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/27/2013 11:39:54 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5083
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

In any event, there is only one way to augment morale for high morale units, and that is victory in combat, and most have known this since their first game.


yup


_____________________________

GHC
20 - 3 - 8

14 games ended in 41 (14-0-0)
6 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
7 games ended in 43 (2-2-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


Global Warming
Religion of the Stupid

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 12
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/29/2013 8:54:27 AM   
SunTsu

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		One question:

If I set an unit 10 hexes away from front to upgrade the morale, does it have to be within commandrange of the HQ? Otherwise one would have to set the HQ (army) 5 hexes behind an unit at front and set the unit to be refitted 5 hexes behind the HQ. This would mean quite much unflexibility in setting the units and HQs.

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 13
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/29/2013 8:58:57 AM   
morvael


Posts: 2523
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: online 		It may be so, if those upgrades to morale require some leader rolls (but we don't know that). Therefore it's better to assume you need to be in range. Someone could do tests to find out (put 10 units on refit in range and 10 out of range, measure morale gains).

(in reply to SunTsu)
Post #: 14
RE: Morale - Sequence of Calculations - 7/29/2013 11:03:07 AM   
SunTsu

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		I have put units out of command range and it's morale was increased. I more was wondering about support that is delivered by the HQ. Therefore I put the unit on a railhex. If one put a unit on a rail is it supported or does all support runs via HQ?

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 15
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