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Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 1:39:34 AM   
lando005

 

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Ok this will be the last thread I start for a while I promise. But I am curious about fleet tactics and designs in this game. I've only had a few isolated skirmishes with some pirates to go off of here so I'm not entirely sure what the AI has in store for me. As a result I've ran into a road block with my military ship designs. Not exactly sure which way I should go. I was thinking I could design each ship to preform a specific task or be equipped with a special feature, but then I would have to redesign my fleet sizes which I've currently worked out to about 10 ships. Also I would have to figure out special features for each ship. Currently each class of ship is generally the same but the firepower of each type is increased appropriately, with the two largest sizes being used in my active fleets. Standard load outs, or special functions....
Post #: 1
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 7:20:09 AM   
Starke

 

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Personally, here's how I design and use my ship classes:

Escorts: I don't use this design at all early game. Mid-late game, I make these into combat reconnaissance ships to locate pirate starports, locate and destroy pirate mining stations, and generally keep an eye on pirate/rival empire ship traffic. Module emphasis: many more fuel cells, slightly more weapons, fewer shields. Key modules: Long Range Scanner, Energy Collectors

Frigates: My defensive design used to garrison any at-risk systems. Always the first ships I build and I continue to upgrade and build them throughout the game. Module emphasis: slightly fewer fuel cells, slightly more engines, thrusters, and armor. Key modules: none

Destroyers: My most generic design, and the one I'm using as a baseline for this post. These ships are my assault and general combat ships. I build these once I have enough frigates to cover what I need to defend and expand my fleet as necessary.
Module emphasis: none - these the baseline. Key modules: none

Cruisers: A specialty ship I add to my assault fleets mid-late game, usually one or two per fleet. It's job is to prevent the enemy from escaping into hyperspace. Module emphasis: many fewer weapons, more shields and fuel cells, slightly more engines, thrusters, and armor. Key modules: HyperDeny

Carriers: My true capital ship - why use the capital ship design when this one can be 50% bigger, and its weapons have unrivaled standoff range? Late game each assault fleet gets one of these. Module emphasis: more fuel cells, many more shields and armor, no conventional weapons, all available space filled with fighter bays. Key modules: Long Range Scanner, Fleet Targeting, Fleet Countermeasures

Capital Ships: I have no use for this design because of the advantages of the Carrier. I guess if a game ever ran super long I could try making some doomsday ship to try taking out small colonies single-handed.

(in reply to lando005)
Post #: 2
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 7:46:38 AM   
Icemania


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There are lots of different ways to go.

I've ended up ignoring the classes completely and simply build a single attack ship design which is always to the maximum available hull size. I used to have a Laser focus but beeline Torpedo Research these days ... whatever picks your fancy ... it pays to focus.

Technically it's a Destroyer but the class is irrelevant as I micro Fleets. Even spare military ships I micro to ensure they stay near hot spots e.g. no need to escort a custom mining ship that has been designed to pretty much outrun anything anyway.

Hull size has a massive effect on performance and survivability so this should be one of your highest research priorities at least early.

Mid-game my Fleet will include an Explorer with Long Range Scanners to support the Great Pirate Hunt.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/24/2013 8:01:30 AM >

(in reply to lando005)
Post #: 3
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 11:34:41 AM   
Canute

 

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1. Ship class like Patrol,Escort ... don't have anything to do with Ship size. Its just the role how the AI handle the ship. Personaly i never use any Escort,Patrol or Frigate class.

2. Concentrate at one weapon tech and get and advance of it. You can trade it against some usefule other weapon techs later.

3. Mosttimes i just made 2-4 attack fleets with 4-6 ships each. Carriers when i went for fighter, otherwhile other class. My expirience with large fleets are, to many small ships are mosttimes cannonfodder and it is much harder to control the fleet.

4.
- Carriers don't need weapons. Maybe a few railguns, pointdefence or Ion weapons. They don't need to be very fast, but need good shields, some armor and fuel cells. Energy collectors are a good idea fighter bays use alot static energy. Targeting or Fleet targeting are not nessesary since they don't use weapons. As Stances they should have Evade/Evade.

- Close range weapons like Railgun or other Beam/wave. The ship need to be fast you need to reache the target(s) before they can damage you from distance to much. Good shields and armor are needed too. Targeting and Countermeasure. As stances Point blank.

- Long range weapons like torpedos and missiels. The ship dont need to be that fast but well shielded/armor. Or fast and not so well shielded since they can outrun the enemys. As stances all weapons.

Hyperspeed, Speed vs. speed. Fast travel speed are nice, but sometimes can a warpdrive who go fast into warp save the ship.

If you got an Ikkuro race, try to become their friend. Their repair bots are great, it saves alot traveltime when ships don't need to be repaired again. Until you have an sort of repair bots, you should have a Constrution ship close for repair duty, special when you fight against Railgun/Gravity beam ships.

Resupply ships are nice too, special when you don't have any refuel station close. But these ships never put it into the fleet. Deploy them on a Gas cloud to fill the cargohold with fuel, then they can follow the fleet and be deployed at some planet, so the fleet can refuel.


(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 4
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 2:15:39 PM   
paShadoWn

 

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The classes i use are skirmisher, boarder, transport, fleet support, bomber, carrier.

(in reply to Canute)
Post #: 5
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 5:01:04 PM   
lando005

 

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I know ship roles are irrelievenat in this game but I've been using them to help me keep track of the avalible hull size I have. Currently my plan is 2-4 primary fleets of 10 plus a fleet of phased out nolonger used but not yet scrapped designs, 2 support ships (resupply and troop transport) and a carrier, followed by3 heavy and 4 light attack ships. So by the end of it all I will probably have 4 cruisers, 3 capital ships and the 3 support and command ships. As far as design goesI have my escorts equipped with better engines than the rest of the fleet, my frigates are pretty base line, destroyers-heavier weapons and armour(and a better reactor), cruisers and capital ships, I'm not quite sure what their special fuction would be yet. For the transports and resupply ships I plan on using things like tractor beams and ion cannons, my carriers would have fleet targeting and a full compliment of weapons. I've been thinking of standardizing my fleet thought and getting rid of the special function ships.

(in reply to paShadoWn)
Post #: 6
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 7:00:04 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke

Personally, here's how I design and use my ship classes:

Escorts: I don't use this design at all early game. Mid-late game, I make these into combat reconnaissance ships to locate pirate starports, locate and destroy pirate mining stations, and generally keep an eye on pirate/rival empire ship traffic. Module emphasis: many more fuel cells, slightly more weapons, fewer shields. Key modules: Long Range Scanner, Energy Collectors

Frigates: My defensive design used to garrison any at-risk systems. Always the first ships I build and I continue to upgrade and build them throughout the game. Module emphasis: slightly fewer fuel cells, slightly more engines, thrusters, and armor. Key modules: none

Destroyers: My most generic design, and the one I'm using as a baseline for this post. These ships are my assault and general combat ships. I build these once I have enough frigates to cover what I need to defend and expand my fleet as necessary.
Module emphasis: none - these the baseline. Key modules: none

Cruisers: A specialty ship I add to my assault fleets mid-late game, usually one or two per fleet. It's job is to prevent the enemy from escaping into hyperspace. Module emphasis: many fewer weapons, more shields and fuel cells, slightly more engines, thrusters, and armor. Key modules: HyperDeny

Carriers: My true capital ship - why use the capital ship design when this one can be 50% bigger, and its weapons have unrivaled standoff range? Late game each assault fleet gets one of these. Module emphasis: more fuel cells, many more shields and armor, no conventional weapons, all available space filled with fighter bays. Key modules: Long Range Scanner, Fleet Targeting, Fleet Countermeasures

Capital Ships: I have no use for this design because of the advantages of the Carrier. I guess if a game ever ran super long I could try making some doomsday ship to try taking out small colonies single-handed.



Just to show how flexible the game is I'll show how completely opposite of you I operate:

Escorts: Backbone of my fleet. Max size is about 300 and I build lots of them. 1 Assault pod on them. Some get put into fleets to escort the troop tansports, but most are left to roam free and do all the mundane tasks expected of them. And I like them fast, speed 50+. I have had as many as 250 to 300 of these in a open ended sand-box game before.

Frigates: Almost as numerous as escorts. Max size between 350 and 400. Unlike escorts I allow frigates to have a hyper deny and multiple assault pods. They work great for capturing enemy ships. Again, some as tranposrt escort, but most left to roam free.

Destroyers: These make up the bulk of my attack fleets. Max size around 500, with many guns and torpedoes. I build these in the ratio of 6 to 8 destroyer to 4 to 6 cruiser to 1 BB (capital ship) in a fleet. This is the largst ship type I build from the start. No troop module, these are not meant for planet invasion. Destroyer, cruisers and capital ships are for clearing defenses, capturing bases/ships, or commerce raiding. however I will put a few of these ships in with the troop transports to add some firepower to the invasion fleets. High value planets get a permanent Destroyer Division assigned to them (8 Destroyers) on permanent guard duty (range set to system, stance agressive). Sometimes I stick a few frigates or escorts in for additional firepower.

Cruisers: Late game for me. Size anywhere from 600-800 depending on tech. These are the first ships that I assign fighter bays to. They are heavy armor, heavy shields and high fire power. 4 assault pods minimum. Cruisers are used as firepower in assault fleets, but also as command ships for other fleets.

Capital ships: I don't build many of these. I also design to around size 1100 which is why I don't build many. They are only found in assault fleets, and only 1 per fleet. They are command ships and damage absorbers (very heavy shields and armor). They also carry 3 fighter bays. Again no troop modules.

Carriers: I tend to keep these relatively small, though speed matches the rest of the fleet at 32+. 6 Fighter bays, a couple of graviton beams 1-2 PD guns, armor and shields. I use them only in fleets and only at 4 per fleet. Size is anywhere from 500 to 800 depending on tech levels. I purposely keep these as small as possible while maintaining the 6 bay design

Troop Transport: Really, is there any other way to use these? I keep them at 300 or less size and add in a couple of guns and assault pods along with the troop modules.


My usual fleet types and composition at end game:

Assault Fleet: 1 Cruiser, 6 destroyers, 4 frigate, 4 Escort, 4 carrier, 6-8 troop transports

Attack Fleet: 1 Capital Ship, 4-6 cruisers, 6-8 destroyers, 4 carriers

DesDiv (Destroyer Division): 1 cruiser, 8 destroyers (4 each frigate/escort if more guns needed)

Attack Squadron: made up of any mix of high tech salvaged ships, however, they are grouped into fleets according to hyperdrive speed (IE the derelicts/located ships). Any world destroyer I salvage ends up in one of these fleets, as they ships that make it up are generally all level 7 tech.

Imperial Guards: 1 fleet only. this is the fleet that sits around the capital: 1 Capital ship, 4 cruisers, 8 destroyers, 8 frigates, 8 escorts, 4 carriers. It's only job is to keep the capital from being attacked, and gets added to from the start.

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(in reply to Starke)
Post #: 7
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 7:25:05 PM   
lando005

 

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How can I get my ships to guard convoys and patrol my borders automaticly? Most of the time my fleets just sit around waiting for orders, I want the ships to be able to move around independantly but come together or fleet actions as needed. Also I'm at build size 500 now and I'm still unable to build resupply ships or carriers, what are the requirements for being able to build them?

I was thinking if I was going to stay with special function ships their roles would be as such

Escorts- High speed fast response ships, convy escorts
Frigates- General purpose ships
Destroyers- Heavy assult ships Maximum power minimum size
Cruisers- High mobile battleships (Not quite sure what their special feature would be)
Capital ships- Flagship state of the art vessles (ditto here)
Troop transports- Troops and assult pods
Resupply ships - resupply (cant seem to build them)
Carriers - Fleet lead ships fighter carriers and attack ready (also cant seem to build them)

I've been wondering about ion cannons and tractor beams and if they should be standard issue in my fleet or just included in the support ships and maybe a between the cruiser and captial ship.


(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 8
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 8:02:23 PM   
Shark7


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For patrols and escort, you are better to leave some ships out of fleets and leave them on automatic orders with galaxy wide range. Fleets are best used for assaults or guarding planets, not guarding stations or freighters.

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(in reply to lando005)
Post #: 9
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 8:06:25 PM   
lando005

 

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So I'm better off disbanding my third fleet made up of smaller ship classes, but what about my other issue with the resupply and carrier ships? Every time I go to design them I get a message "unable to build ships of this type"

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 10
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 8:57:37 PM   
flight2q

 

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You need to research to unlock them.

Carriers - You need Tactical Interceptors. Under Weapons branch, in the Star Fighters section.

Resupply - You need Accelerated Construction. Under Energy and Construction branch, in the bottom section.

(in reply to lando005)
Post #: 11
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 9:02:26 PM   
lando005

 

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Thank you I was wondering what the hold up was

(in reply to flight2q)
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RE: Fleet tactic - 7/24/2013 11:24:26 PM   
Larsenex


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Which is odd because in the Energy size arm of the tree it does not state that you can unlock Cruisers or Capitals. I found out by going down the line and seeing what ships are unlocked.

Cruisers are unlocked at size 500

Capitals are unlocked at size 800 (might be 650 now that I think about it.)

Ok request for entire rewrite of game code to make (me) happy, please put..'unlocks Capital or Unlocks Cruiser' design.

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(in reply to lando005)
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RE: Fleet tactic - 7/25/2013 12:44:56 AM   
Starke

 

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This is fun enough to merit it's own thread. Here's some more info just because.

I prefer to play completely automation-free, and organize all my ships into fleets without exception instead of letting any patrol freely. Fleet types:

Defense [system name] - 4 to 8 frigates - assigned to defend any system at risk of attack that contains at least one colony.

Assault [number] - 8 to 16 destroyers, optionally 1-2 cruisers, optionally 1 carrier - used for all offensive space combat, such as bashing pirate bases, attacking other empires, etc.

Dispatch [number] - 4 to 8 frigates - sometimes I no longer need a defensive fleet in a given system, and it becomes a Dispatch fleet, essentially a shorter-range, lighter-duty Assault fleet for taking out pirate bases, mining stations, and assisting in colony assaults.

Invasion [number] - 1 to 3 troop transports - for invading independent colonies and those of other empires. They wait for Assault and Dispatch fleets to clear the system, and therefore have little shielding but a massive number of troop compartments.

Strike [number] - 2 destroyers - for cleaning up pirate mining bases and stopping their constructors from throwing up new facilities, and harassing another empire's mining stations in the rare case that I find myself in a war where I not pursue total conquest.

Patrol [system name] - 2 to 8 frigates OR 2 to 8 destroyers, depending on availability of fuel in system and distance to nearest colony - used in the somewhat rare case that a system without a colony is threatened and has enough mining/research/resort stations to merit a full-time fleet presence. These fleets are oddballs and usually split off of whatever ships are available for reassignment.

Aegis [system name] - 8 to 16 destroyers, optionally 1-2 cruisers, optionally 1 carrier - if I'm in a tough (and usually early) war and need defenses, but don't want to build a ton of short-range frigates and hobble myself later, I'll create an Aegis fleet, which is just a renamed Assault Fleet to indicate that it's on indefinite assignment to defend a particular system.

Logistics [number] - 1 troop transport - used when I occasionally need to ferry troop around inside of my empire. These often follow colony ships to deploy a garrison on the new colony, and sometimes are used to reinforce planets that come under unexpectedly tough pirate attacks.

Recon [number] - 1 escort - like the Logistics fleet, this is just a single ship put in a fleet for convenience for managment purposes. See the ship design post above. It spies on pirates and empires, and destroys pirate mining stations.

Resupply [number] - 1 resupply ship - parked at a discreet gas giant or gas cloud nearby enemy targets when I need to hit something outside the range of even my Compressed Fuel Cell-equipped destroyers.

EDIT: I forgot two rare ones:

Repair [number OR former fleet name OR general location, ex. "north-east"] - [variable composition] - When fighting major pirate factions or empires, inevitably I'm going to have damaged ships, but can't always afford having the whole fleet return to base. They get put into temporary repair fleets, and when patched up, either returned to their original fleet, or if the repair fleet is large enough, reorganized into a new fleet.

Disassemble [optional: empire name] - [variable composition] - When I inherit another empire's ships after conquering them, a pirate faction joins my empire, or I find/repair an abandoned ship, they get put into one of these fleets. As their name suggests, they are ordered to the nearest spaceport for disassembly. (and VERY occasionally, to a colony with a half-built spaceport with an operational command center for disassembly there, as that way the colony gets the resources ^^ )

Ok, I think that's all the fleet types I've ever used. =P Obviously some of them are specialty setups, while others get used every game.

< Message edited by Starke -- 7/25/2013 5:08:38 AM >

(in reply to Larsenex)
Post #: 14
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/25/2013 2:53:14 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7135
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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lando005

So I'm better off disbanding my third fleet made up of smaller ship classes, but what about my other issue with the resupply and carrier ships? Every time I go to design them I get a message "unable to build ships of this type"


You are lacking the tech level to build them, I believe it is at the 4th or 5th construction level that you get them. Can't really remember without looking at it.

_____________________________

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'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to lando005)
Post #: 15
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/25/2013 2:55:40 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7135
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke

This is fun enough to merit it's own thread. Here's some more info just because.

I prefer to play completely automation-free, and organize all my ships into fleets without exception instead of letting any patrol freely. Fleet types:

Defense [system name] - 4 to 8 frigates - assigned to defend any system at risk of attack that contains at least one colony.

Assault [number] - 8 to 16 destroyers, optionally 1-2 cruisers, optionally 1 carrier - used for all offensive space combat, such as bashing pirate bases, attacking other empires, etc.

Dispatch [number] - 4 to 8 frigates - sometimes I no longer need a defensive fleet in a given system, and it becomes a Dispatch fleet, essentially a shorter-range, lighter-duty Assault fleet for taking out pirate bases, mining stations, and assisting in colony assaults.

Invasion [number] - 1 to 3 troop transports - for invading independent colonies and those of other empires. They wait for Assault and Dispatch fleets to clear the system, and therefore have little shielding but a massive number of troop compartments.

Strike [number] - 2 destroyers - for cleaning up pirate mining bases and stopping their constructors from throwing up new facilities, and harassing another empire's mining stations in the rare case that I find myself in a war where I not pursue total conquest.

Patrol [system name] - 2 to 8 frigates OR 2 to 8 destroyers, depending on availability of fuel in system and distance to nearest colony - used in the somewhat rare case that a system without a colony is threatened and has enough mining/research/resort stations to merit a full-time fleet presence. These fleets are oddballs and usually split off of whatever ships are available for reassignment.

Aegis [system name] - 8 to 16 destroyers, optionally 1-2 cruisers, optionally 1 carrier - if I'm in a tough (and usually early) war and need defenses, but don't want to build a ton of short-range frigates and hobble myself later, I'll create an Aegis fleet, which is just a renamed Assault Fleet to indicate that it's on indefinite assignment to defend a particular system.

Logistics [number] - 1 troop transport - used when I occasionally need to ferry troop around inside of my empire. These often follow colony ships to deploy a garrison on the new colony, and sometimes are used to reinforce planets that come under unexpectedly tough pirate attacks.

Recon [number] - 1 escort - like the Logistics fleet, this is just a single ship put in a fleet for convenience for managment purposes. See the ship design post above. It spies on pirates and empires, and destroys pirate mining stations.

Resupply [number] - 1 resupply ship - parked at a discreet gas giant or gas cloud nearby enemy targets when I need to hit something outside the range of even my Compressed Fuel Cell-equipped destroyers.

Ok, I think that's all the fleet types I've ever used. =P Obviously some of them are specialty setups, while others get used every game.


Where I like to control a select few fleets that actually do the attacking, and leave all the defending and mundane tasks to the AI. That is the escort, the 'go protect blah mining station, etc' tasks.

And that is what is so wonderful about DW, you can play your way, I can play mine, and we're both playing the same game, just with different levels of AI automation.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Starke)
Post #: 16
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/25/2013 2:02:09 PM   
Plant


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In the end it's just personal preference what you decide to design for and what tactics to use, since it is a single player game.
Even if you want to design effective designs, it largely depends on your automaton options,, which by the way, you haven't bothered to describe.

Something to keep in mind though is that for the most part, full blown roleplaying designs like Starke and Shark7 (similar names lol) tends towards automaton and are fantastically, tactically and strategically nonsensical.

Whilst I would tend towards exactly what Icemania has described, but it is as a both a consequence of switching off ship production and fleet automaton, and born of a desire to play tactically and strategically.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 17
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/25/2013 3:43:54 PM   
Shark7


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My automation settings are as follows:

Fleets = Manual

Design and Construction = manual

Upgrade and retrofit = Manual

Research = Manual

Fleet stances = aggressive

Fleet Response Range = dependent on fleet purpose:
1. Attack Fleet = galaxy
2. Assault Fleet = nearby
3. Imperial Guard = planet
4. DesDiv = system
5 Attack Squadron = galaxy

of course free roaming ships are left on default settings of agressive and galaxy and left to do their thing.



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Post #: 18
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/25/2013 8:34:52 PM   
Starke

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

Something to keep in mind though is that for the most part, full blown roleplaying designs like Starke and Shark7 (similar names lol) tends towards automaton and are fantastically, tactically and strategically nonsensical.



Um, nonsensical how?

I get the fleet names are kinda organization overkill, but I do it mainly so all fleets of the same type are next to each other in the Fleet finder widget on the left - it sorts alphabetically.

My fleets are also pretty much homogenous groups of kickass armed solely with short-range beams (and good engines!), I only add the more "special" cruiser and carrier designs late-game to spice things up.

I just find having random ships flying around does me no good at all. =/ When all the pickup and dropoff locations are covered, there's no need to escort ships through hyperspace. And I custom-design my private ships so that they can competently escape pirates when they need to leave the protection of my planets to pick up stuff from mining stations, etc.

(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 19
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/25/2013 10:39:07 PM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
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Hehe, and here I thought that most navies grouped their ships into fleets or task forces based on the mission objectives of said fleets or task forces. Also navies tend to have a system of deploying said fleets so they are able to accomplish the mission they are assigned.

If I wanted to get completely technical and use a fairly standard system of fleet naming I would either call each 'Task Force #' which leaves me no way of knowing exactly what I've got the fleet set to.

Besides, isn't this a science FICTION game? What does it matter how I organize my fleets, so long as I the player can utilize it easily. My way puts the fleets I control at the top of my sidebar list, and the ones the AI handles down where I can't see them since the list is numerically/alphabetically sorted. It works for me...rather well to be honest.

Also, I don't put a fleet at every system because if you try to defend everywhere you will lose everything. Besides you will bankrupt your little empire if you try to be everywhere in force.



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Post #: 20
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/27/2013 12:51:56 AM   
Plant


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Well, what can I say Stark? It's not as if you have given any logical explanation to your ship and fleet types. Basing on real life deployments in a space game is an absurdity in itself, where both the setting and rules of the game is different from any real life comparisons, not that you have followed it properly anyhow. But I recognise that's your playstyle, and that's totally fine.

It's a single player game Shark. You can play it however you like. It's not as if you would feel an impulse to improve yourself through competition the same way a mutiplayer game would.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 21
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/27/2013 4:46:12 AM   
Starke

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

Well, what can I say Stark? It's not as if you have given any logical explanation to your ship and fleet types.

Um. 0_o Pretty sure I'm being trolled here, but if not, please see my first and second posts in this thread.

My fleets are in no way based around real-world fleets - for example, mine are vastly more homogeneous. Each ship is designed with a role in mind, the different fleets are composed of ships suited for the fleet's 'mission profile' of sorts, and that mission profile is indicated by its name, which has the benefit of locating all similar fleets next to each other in the Fleets tab.

Assault fleets get my destroyers, designed for general combat, matching the fleet's mission profile. (they get a couple other ships late game once I acquire fleet boosts and hyperdeny, as there is no need for the whole fleet to have those)

Defense fleets get frigates, my shorter-range, higher-sublight design, as they won't need to travel far.

Strike fleets get destroyers, as they require the roughly same type of ship as Assault fleets, but in lesser numbers.

Etc., etc.

Yes, I could totally make my combat, defense, recon, and other ships all "escorts," "frigates," etc. as those classes are all completely arbitrary and impose no limits on the design. I prefer to use several of the in-game ship types so I don't have to keep multiple designs of the same ship type around, it makes them easier to distinguish in fleets, when constructing, prevents me accidentally obsoleting the same design, etc.

< Message edited by Starke -- 7/27/2013 4:47:31 AM >

(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 22
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/27/2013 5:37:49 AM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

Well, what can I say Stark? It's not as if you have given any logical explanation to your ship and fleet types. Basing on real life deployments in a space game is an absurdity in itself, where both the setting and rules of the game is different from any real life comparisons, not that you have followed it properly anyhow. But I recognise that's your playstyle, and that's totally fine.

It's a single player game Shark. You can play it however you like. It's not as if you would feel an impulse to improve yourself through competition the same way a mutiplayer game would.


I'm going to assume you aren't meaning to be harsh, but it can be interpreted that way. Text on the internet can be so easily taken the wrong way.

I've played enough multiplayer RTS games in the past to know how that works. I wouldn't be so quick to claim that you improve yourself in that scene...since so many times the answer seems to be the zerg tactic (who can get there the first with the most). Also the competition often ruins the game, you can't just have fun with it. That is the reason I haven't really played a MP game in a long time. Keep in mind that I can't really judge anymore, been too long since I've played a MP RTS game.

For those that like that type of game, there is nothing wrong with it. I just prefer the more relaxed pace game and if I tend to play it more RPG style then I'm happy with that. I'm just in it for the fun, and would rather avoid the stress of multiplayer.

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(in reply to Plant)
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RE: Fleet tactic - 7/27/2013 8:49:42 PM   
Plant


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Have no fear Starke, for I have read your posts; I aren't intentionally trying to disrupt the thread. To explain in a short manner, I view your ship types and fleet organisation as inflexible and rigid, a prime example being your "Aegis [system name]". In my view such an organisational naming device is not needed, and is done for a flavour to your games.

Well, playing the Zerg race in Broodwar relies on teching up and utilising small numbers of certain high tech units to be able to emgage their opponent in battle, I think what you meant of zerging, which is a known misnomer, but I won't bore you into going into the details unless you ask me to.

Anyhow, the intention of my sentence, which admittedly somewhat sounds harsh, is that there is no competition, and therefore no comparison.

(in reply to Starke)
Post #: 24
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/29/2013 12:18:27 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Awesome thread - by design, the game allows you to pursue just about any ship design and fleet composition strategy that you choose. Through save files, we've seen some very interesting and specialized designs. If you push the boundaries in any direction, you may find some interesting results. It's great to read about your experiences and the different strategies you've tried. One point I'll add is that I've found that even in the post-hyperspace era, there is still a good role that some non-hyperspace ships can play, at which they are quite cost effective.

Regards,

- Erik


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(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 25
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/29/2013 2:51:20 PM   
Plant


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No hyperspace ships in the hyperspace era? Why?

Hyperspace component is negligibly cheap, relative to the benefits it brings. And it only gets relatively cheaper the bigger the ship becomes. I can see a role that some private sector ships can bring if you are a pirate (because you can choose where to build them), if the non hyperspace ships choose to remain in system, but then they suddenly become useless as soon as you want them out of the system.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 26
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/29/2013 3:54:39 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

No hyperspace ships in the hyperspace era? Why?

Hyperspace component is negligibly cheap, relative to the benefits it brings. And it only gets relatively cheaper the bigger the ship becomes. I can see a role that some private sector ships can bring if you are a pirate (because you can choose where to build them), if the non hyperspace ships choose to remain in system, but then they suddenly become useless as soon as you want them out of the system.



Having a ship with no hyperdrive built at a planet you want it to defend might not be so bad though, those ships would have to stay put. I can see a use for them as the defense fleet for the imperial capitol.

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Post #: 27
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 1:57:34 PM   
Plant


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I see no reasons for any military ship to not have a hyperdrive. A defence fleet without hyperdrive? That's just wishful thinking. You'll wish you lost that extra 1-7% gain in combat effectiveness that is gained from not having a hyperdrive for the ability to protect anything that isn't your homeworld. Like when pirate/enemy empire attack your mines. Or attack anywhere else and you haven't the ships available. The gain in not having hyperdrive is greatly exceeded by the disadvantages. There is no reason whatsoever for a military ship to not have hyperspace at all. Not for any strategic reason.

Even having your one starting system having mining bases is enough to make hyperspace essential, nevermind an entire empire.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 28
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 5:14:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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One thing that you may not be aware of is that non-hyperspace ships have a significant maintenance discount and without the hyperdrive and extra energy requirements, you can really go to town in other areas.

Regards,

- Erik


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(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 29
RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 5:52:42 PM   
lando005

 

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Which automation options are you referring to? I've made a few changes to my tactics since I last stopped by here. I play primaraly defensively and so I've tailored my fleets accordingly. I've been tweeking by using end level game tech to see what my fleets would look like down the line and have been using that as my point of reference. Also the Galatopidia helped alot with recommendations for ship roles. I'm still going to keep primaraly general pupose tactical fleets composed of cuisers, capital ships, carriers, trasports, and supply ships, but I've also decided to keep a reserve of destroyers on hand as well, and leave the escorts and frigates free to their own missions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

In the end it's just personal preference what you decide to design for and what tactics to use, since it is a single player game.
Even if you want to design effective designs, it largely depends on your automaton options,, which by the way, you haven't bothered to describe.

Something to keep in mind though is that for the most part, full blown roleplaying designs like Starke and Shark7 (similar names lol) tends towards automaton and are fantastically, tactically and strategically nonsensical.

Whilst I would tend towards exactly what Icemania has described, but it is as a both a consequence of switching off ship production and fleet automaton, and born of a desire to play tactically and strategically.


(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 30
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