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Global War - 7/12/2013 1:46:15 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Since the discussion of strategies is interlocking I thought it might be a good Idea to have a separate thread to simplify things.

Production 1939
China 4BP (if land attacked (not overrun) by Axis units in China 5BP)
7x used factories, 1x unused factory, 0x oil, 7x resources, and 1x saved oil.
No trade agreements
0.50 production multiple (0.25 production multiple + 0.25 for Japanese units in China)
0x oil saved per turn

Commonwealth 11BP
21x used factories, 1x unused factory, 3x oil, 21x resources (4x unused), and 3x saved oil.
2x oil in trade agreement from Netherlands East Indies
1x oil in trade agreement from Persia
3x oil in trade agreement from Venezuela
0.50 production multiple
5x oil saved per turn

France 4BP (if Axis units are in France 6BP if land attacked (not overrun) by Axis units in France 8BP)
8x used factories, 6x unused factory, 0x oil, 10x resources (2x unused), and 1x saved oil.
1x oil in trade agreement from Iraq
0.50 production multiple
1x oil saved per turn

Germany 15BP (if Allied units are in Germany 20BP if land attacked (not overrun) by Allied units in Germany 26BP)
23x used factories, 1x unused factory, 2x oil, 9x resources, and 4x saved oil.
1x resources in trade agreement from Hungary
2x oil in trade agreement from Rumania
1x resources in trade agreement from Spain
3x resources in trade agreement from Sweden
1x resources in trade agreement from Turkey
2x oil in trade agreement from USSR
5x resources in trade agreement from USSR
2x BP in trade agreement to USSR
0.75 production multiple
2x oil saved per turn

Italy 3BP (if Allied units are in Italy 5BP if land attacked (not overrun) by Allied units in Italy 6BP)
5x used factories, 6x unused factories, 0x oil, 4x resources, and 1x saved oil.
1x oil in trade agreement from Rumania
0.50 production multiple
0x oil saved per turn

Japan 10BP
18x used factories, 5x unused factories, 0x oil, 10x resources, and 4x saved oil.
2x oil in trade agreement from Netherlands East Indies
2x oil in trade agreement from USA
2x resources in trade agreement from USA
1x BP in trade agreement to USA
0.75 production multiple
0x oil saved per turn

USA 11BP
38x used factories, 2x unused factories, 16x oil, 23x resources, and 3x saved oil.
2x oil in trade agreement to Japan
2x resources in trade agreement to Japan
3x oil in trade agreement from Venezuela
1x BP in trade agreement from Japan
0.25 production multiple
1x oil saved per turn (3x oil unused)

USSR 8BP
22x used factories, 7x unused factories, 10x oil, 20x resources, and 3x saved oil.
2x oil in trade agreement to Germany
5x resources in trade agreement to Germany
2x BP in trade agreement from Germany
0.25 production multiple
1x oil saved per turn

quote:


13.6.3 Production multiples
Total your production points and then subtract the number of production points you lost to strategic bombardment (see 11.7 Strategic bombardment).

Multiply the outcome by your major power’s production multiple. The result is your major power’s build points.

You may also have build points lend leased from other major powers (see 13.6.4 Lend lease).

AfA option 31: You may also have saved build points from previous turns (see 13.6.8 Saving build points (AfA option 31)).

Each major power has an initial production multiple. These rise progressively during the game. Essentially, this reflects an increasing national industrial output and an increasing share of that output being devoted to military uses. Production multiples are listed on the Production Multiples Chart.

Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if there is an in supply enemy unit in the major power¹s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).

Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if an enemy unit took part during the turn in a land attack (not overrun) against any friendly land unit (including partisans and notional units) in the major power¹s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).

Increase the USSR’s multiple:
By 0.25 from 1942 onwards if Minsk or Kiev are Soviet controlled; and
By 0.25 from 1943 onwards if Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad are Soviet controlled.

Increase the USA’s production multiple:
By 0.25 when the US chooses entry option 22. Gear up production.
By 0.25 when the US chooses entry option 34. Pass War Appropriations Bill.
By 0.25 when the US is at war with any Axis major power.
By 0.25 when the US is at war with every Axis major power that has not yet been completely conquered.
By 0.25 on the anniversary (i.e. after every 6 turns) of the turn the US selected entry option 34. Pass War Appropriations Bill.



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 7/12/2013 10:12:38 PM >


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RE: Global War - 7/12/2013 4:45:36 PM   
lomyrin


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Are you using the latest charts ?

The first turn of 1939 usually results in France 5 BP, USA 11 BP, and Russia 8 BP with each saving 1 oil.

(in reply to Extraneous)
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RE: Global War - 7/12/2013 9:24:17 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Are you using the latest charts ?

The first turn of 1939 usually results in France 5 BP, USA 11 BP, and Russia 8 BP with each saving 1 oil.



Corrected CW, USA, and USSR.


4BP is correct for France.

8x factories * 0.5 = 4BP

The resources not used are Hanoi and New Caledonia.



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 7/12/2013 10:09:33 PM >


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RE: Global War - 7/12/2013 9:45:01 PM   
paulderynck


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Neutral powers may only store one oil per turn.

Quite often I'll structure my CP lines so that France can use all her resources plus the oil from Iraq and build with 6 BPs on Turn 1.

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RE: Global War - 7/12/2013 10:51:14 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Quite often I'll structure my CP lines so that France can use all her resources plus the oil from Iraq and build with 6 BPs on Turn 1.


France starts with 10CP.

Iraqi Convoy line (2CP) Rail to Beirut, Lebanon > 1CP Eastern Mediterranean Sea > 1CP Western Mediterranean Sea > to Marseilles, France

Dakar Convoy line (2CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1CP Cape Verde Basin > 1CP Cape St. Vincent > to Cádiz, Spain

How can you use all the French resources when you only have 6CP left?




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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 12:52:18 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Quite often I'll structure my CP lines so that France can use all her resources plus the oil from Iraq and build with 6 BPs on Turn 1.


France starts with 10CP.

Iraqi Convoy line (2CP) Rail to Beirut, Lebanon > 1CP Eastern Mediterranean Sea > 1CP Western Mediterranean Sea > to Marseilles, France

Dakar Convoy line (2CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1CP Cape Verde Basin > 1CP Cape St. Vincent > to Cádiz, Spain

How can you use all the French resources when you only have 6CP left?




France can use Commonwealth convoy points.

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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 1:07:07 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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I cobbled together 3 screenshots to show the Commonwealth and French production at the end of the first turn. I don't know how good these routes and uses are - I use the game to debug production planning so the routes and uses could be very strange.

But you can see that the Commonwealth has a lot of unused convoys. Of course, putting all those convoys out to sea might leave them very vulnerable to attack by the Axis. As I said, this production plan is not intended to be 'reasonable'.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 1:51:10 AM   
Extraneous

 

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The resources in Senegal, Hanoi, and New Caledonia are not used in your example.

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 7/13/2013 1:52:36 AM >


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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 2:06:48 AM   
brian brian

 

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France putting their at-start saved oil into production on the first turn - nice move, I like it. New for me, never thought of that. Depending on your oil rules and level of activity of the Axis navies, I guess I would have always been nervous about oil for the fleet. But that could definitely work in some games.

Similar calculus for Italy. Very rarely would I go for 3 BP on the first turn, but then I always play with an oil rule. I might even leave their CP in port rather than bring the Sardinian goodies home. Maybe 3 BP on the second turn though.

There are whole threads on convoys set-ups already.

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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 4:59:23 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

The resources in Senegal, Hanoi, and New Caledonia are not used in your example.

That is a debug screenshot - do not take the routes and uses seriously! The resources, factories, and convoys available should be correct. Note that the NEI oil controlled by the Commonwealth is going to Japan!

As I recall, I was debugging the routing of the 4 NEI oil so that 2 went to the Commonwealth and the other 2 went to Japan. The problem was what happens if: (1) partisans occupy one or more of the NEI oil points, and (2) the default setting for where the oil was sent last turn was set by a major power on the other side.

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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 7:18:37 PM   
Extraneous

 

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If Italy is neutral then the French or CW players they need to consider search and seizure before they decide to use the Mediterranean for convoy routes.

quote:


Search and seizure
You can stop major powers on the other side that you are not at war with from transporting resources (and build points ~ see 13.6.4) overseas to major powers you are at war with.

To do this:
You must have an SCS, CV or SUB in the sea area during the production step;

The major power you are not at war with must have convoy points there that are transporting resources (or build points) to a major power you are at war with; and

There must not be an SCS, CV or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor, controlled by a major power you are at war with, in the sea area (or a US unit that can escort there because of US entry options 11 US east coast escorts, 20 US land-based air escort, 29 North Atlantic escorts, 38 Arm merchantmen or 50 Unrestricted naval warfare ~ see 13.3.2 US entry options).

You can then execute a search and seizure if you want to. If you do, those resources (or build points) are lost. Each search and seizure you execute is a US entry action (see 13.3.3 US entry actions) if it is conducted against a major power not at war with the USA.



quote:

13.3.3 US entry actions
35. An Axis major power (other than Japan) executes a search and seizure (There is a 20% chance a USA entry chit will be added to the USA (Ge/It) entry pool) (see 13.6.1 Resources).




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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 8:12:41 PM   
paulderynck


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Neutral powers cannot do S&S. They have to be at war with the recipient.

Search and seizure
You can stop major powers on the other side that you are not at war with from transporting resources (and build points ~ see 13.6.4) overseas to major powers you are at war with.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 7/13/2013 8:13:24 PM >


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RE: Global War - 7/13/2013 9:41:14 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Neutral powers cannot do S&S. They have to be at war with the recipient.

Search and seizure
You can stop major powers on the other side that you are not at war with from transporting resources (and build points ~ see 13.6.4) overseas to major powers you are at war with.


Yes I know. Italy declares war on one and does a S&S on the other.

If France uses its 1 saved oil for production this is a very good Italian option if one side is usiing the others CP's in the Mediterranean.


< Message edited by Extraneous -- 7/13/2013 9:43:49 PM >


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RE: Global War - 7/14/2013 4:18:22 AM   
paulderynck


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It is not necessary to route through the Med. France can burn her saved oil and save the Iraqi one in Syria.

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RE: Global War - 7/14/2013 2:19:16 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Quite often I'll structure my CP lines so that France can use all her resources plus the oil from Iraq and build with 6 BPs on Turn 1.


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
It is not necessary to route through the Med. France can burn her saved oil and save the Iraqi one in Syria.


How do you get the oil from Iraq to France?

How do you structure all French CP lines so that France can use all her resources?


France starts with 10CP.

Iraqi Convoy line (2CP) Rail to Beirut, Lebanon > 1CP Eastern Mediterranean Sea > 1CP Western Mediterranean Sea > to Marseilles, France

Assuming you rail the resource from Dakar to a port on the Western Mediterranean Sea that leaves France only 7CP.



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RE: Global War - 7/14/2013 8:05:17 PM   
paulderynck


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The French can use CW CPs starting as of the production phase of turn 1.

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RE: Global War - 7/14/2013 10:21:35 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

Option 29: (Food in Flames) For each of Australia, Canada, India and South Africa where no resources are transported to a factory in Great Britain this turn, reduce the number of resources that did reach a useable factory in Great Britain this turn by two (minimum 0). The Commonwealth player chooses which resources are lost.


France starts with 10CP.

Iraqi Convoy line (2CP) Rail to Beirut, Lebanon > 1CP Eastern Mediterranean Sea > 1CP Western Mediterranean Sea > to Marseilles, France

Assuming you rail the resource from Dakar to a port on the Western Mediterranean Sea that leaves France only 7CP.


The CW starts with 81CP,

Patrice's post #146 takes 79CP

Orm's post #440 takes 72CP

That would give you an additional 9CP but the CW looses 2 resources to option 29 for India and Australia.


Do you have the convoy lines written down or some screen shots of your French and CW convoys?




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RE: Global War - 7/14/2013 10:40:28 PM   
lomyrin


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I thought the following was pretty standard for the French convoy setup and it gives a French first turn production of 5 BP and saves one oil, often in Bordeaux. It does depend on peace or no convoy losses against the Italians and no Germans in South Belgium since that could cause one French resourse to be inaccessible.

! Cp each in C Verde, CSV for Senegal resource to rail through west Spain. 1 Cp in W Med and 1 in E Med. 1 in Red Sea, 1 in Arabian Sea, 1 in Bengal, 1 in S China sea for Hanoi resource. 1 in W Med and 1 inE Med for Iraq oil. Algerian resourcerails through Gibraltar This allows for 9 reosurces to produce with and 1 oil to be saved.

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RE: Global War - 7/15/2013 9:14:51 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Do you have the convoy lines written down or some screen shots of your French and CW convoys?


No but IIRC I have a 2 CP line from Australia that can go to Canada via Mexico or one of them can carry on through the Caribbean and then to France (using a couple more CPs). In 1939 you only need 21 resources to get to CW factories so this line can carry the New Caledonia resource to France instead.

In the Med I have one French and one or more CW CP in the east and west Med. If Italy DoWs they have to DoW both CW and France or DoW one and S&S the other, which is fine for US entry. (No extra cost to DoW both at once but accommodates strategies where they only DoW one.) Also you can burn the oil you start with that's in France and save the new one from Iraq in Syria. For re-org next turn, you don't need to trace through the Med, you can trace around Africa. Ideally, you avoid spending more than two-fifths of an oil for France for re-org on turn 1. Sometimes I have the extra Med CW CPs start in ports outside the Med and "await developments". They can move into place later in the turn with a Combined action.

I usually put most of the French CPs in the Pacific as they have the highest chance to go FF there. I believe the number one thing FF needs force-wise is a navy.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 7/15/2013 9:16:11 PM >


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RE: Global War - 7/17/2013 1:30:09 AM   
Extraneous

 

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That is the second post I have made that has been shifted to a diferent thread.

Am I no longer allowed to respond to posts?

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