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Pelton vs Griefhead SHC resigns T13

 
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Pelton vs Griefhead SHC resigns T13 - 7/6/2013 2:57:37 PM   
Pelton

 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LeqzHJRxC0&feature=related

Fuel drops are done before movement to Corp HQers. 100-150 per Corp. After all ground attacks are done LW bombs air fields closest to front. Air drops will not be that effective after turn 2. Turn 3 I will reorganized LW. Basically starting turn 4 LW goes over to ground support.
Air settings; over-all: 0 Ground support off, recon support off, GS 140/100, GA 75/100,AA 150/100,FI 150, IA 0/0 CA 150/100
Toe %: HQ/air bases 93%, MoT/Mech 81% Panzers 81% InF 91% MT/Cav 91% all others set at 71%. I do not lower HQ’s below 91% because of a -1 to die rolls per -10. AA and Art are huge on defensive so I keep them at 71% then raise to 91% in September of 1942.
AGN





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/30/2013 9:20:54 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk
Post #: 1
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/6/2013 3:01:00 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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AGC




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 2
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/6/2013 3:01:26 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
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AGS




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 3
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/12/2013 4:26:27 AM   
Griefhead

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/17/2012
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T1
Very solid move by GER with pockets in the north and south, which were not able to be broken. In the north a pocket cut off sea escape out of Ventpils, and Riga was taken. GER destroyed only about 1000 airships instead of the normal 3000.
SOV Response - Run away.

Comment added T4:
Dr. Hitman did the same thing in a previous game and he asked me about T5 or T6 to comment on his play. I told him everything was well organized except that he didn’t destroy my air force on the opening move. I think it was a mistake, but wasn’t able to capitalize on it because he had destroyed the SOV ground forces by T13 and there was nothing left for the air force to protect. I surrendered shortly after. This game I hope to be able to take advantage of a couple thousand extra airships.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 4
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/12/2013 7:33:40 AM   
SigUp

 

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Joined: 11/29/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griefhead

T1
Very solid move by GER with pockets in the north and south, which were not able to be broken. In the north a pocket cut off sea escape out of Ventpils, and Riga was taken. GER destroyed only about 1000 airships instead of the normal 3000.
SOV Response - Run away.

Comment added T4:
Dr. Hitman did the same thing in a previous game and he asked me about T5 or T6 to comment on his play. I told him everything was well organized except that he didn’t destroy my air force on the opening move. I think it was a mistake, but wasn’t able to capitalize on it because he had destroyed the SOV ground forces by T13 and there was nothing left for the air force to protect. I surrendered shortly after. This game I hope to be able to take advantage of a couple thousand extra airships.


Honestly, that aircraft destruction thing is overrated. First, most aircraft you destroy as the Germans the opening turn are for the scrapheap anyway (FlaviusX for example considers this actually a help for the Soviets, as this eases up the modernization of the Red Airforce). Second, in Summer and early Autumn 1941 the Soviet airforce can't be used effectively for ground support anyway. The only thing its good for is interdiction and interception.

(in reply to Griefhead)
Post #: 5
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/12/2013 12:58:33 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Yes but the shear numbers can wear down the Luftwaffe if the Soviet player just keeps basing them forward with high interception rates. The Axis player has problems in 41 and 42 keeping the Luftwaffe as a potent force if they do not take out as much of the VVS as they can early in the game. I will admit that this game shows that the best anti-air tool on either side is some tanks overrunning the airfield!

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 6
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/13/2013 1:24:30 AM   
bigbaba


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From: Koblenz, Germany
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i am not 100% sure but i think this opening is exactly the same pelton had against me. it seems that one can wake up pelton at 3 a.m. and he will be able to do this first turn half sleeping.:)

carl is right here btw. even obsolate russian AC can hurt via interdiction and transport interception in the first turns when the luftwaffe organization is weak and simply no german CAP exists over his panzer spearheads.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 7
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/13/2013 2:04:31 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

i am not 100% sure but i think this opening is exactly the same pelton had against me. it seems that one can wake up pelton at 3 a.m. and he will be able to do this first turn half sleeping.:)

carl is right here btw. even obsolate russian AC can hurt via interdiction and transport interception in the first turns when the luftwaffe organization is weak and simply no german CAP exists over his panzer spearheads.


Yes I have opening scripted, with just a few reserves to make sure the pockets are tight.




_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 8
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/14/2013 1:39:42 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 2 AGN: Fuel drops were made before Corp HQ’s moved and a few drops to MoT divisions. Turn 1 pockets in the area were mopped up. The 3 Security HQ’s were disbanded.
18th and 16th armies move north towards Leningrad. 9th army will take up the position between AGN and AGC.
PG 4 + 39th Panzer Corp capture Pskov.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXavbioVzUM&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjoRut-0xdQ2QdmANID1&bpctr=1373764049




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 9
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/14/2013 1:40:32 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
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Turn 2 AGC 4th and 2nd armies move east towards the land bridge.
PG 3 + PG 2 flip hexes.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 10
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/14/2013 1:41:37 AM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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AGS
SHC does a very light checker board and everything else runs east. Panzers move another 150 miles to the east and set-up for HQBU’s next turn. The major push over the river or to D town will be on turn 4.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 11
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/14/2013 10:46:56 PM   
Griefhead

 

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T2
Some minor pocketing in the south with general movement towards the east. Some GER consolidation and panzer movement towards Pskov and Moscow.
SOV Response - A defensive line is started at Leningrad and some defensive positions are established on the Dnepr in the south. Oh yes - Run away.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 12
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/16/2013 11:13:01 PM   
Griefhead

 

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T3
Pskov is firmly taken - with panzers 50-70 miles north of the city. In the center, some GER units move up to the Dnepr with panzers 50 miles west of Smolensk. In the south, steady unit movement east with a strong panzer thrust towards Cherkassy.

SOV Response - Leningrad line is firming up with some F1s. Reinforcements are moved east of Lake Ilmen to begin a defensive line. In the south, the Dnepr is further defended, has some F1s.
Run away.

(in reply to Griefhead)
Post #: 13
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/17/2013 8:09:22 PM   
Marquo


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What morale levels are you using??

(in reply to Griefhead)
Post #: 14
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/17/2013 9:48:29 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGN T-3 just basicly pushing in area some for the main push which will come T-6




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 15
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/17/2013 9:49:49 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGC flipping hexes




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 16
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/17/2013 9:50:51 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS does a HQBU and the rest of panzers flip hexes, infantry march east.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 17
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 10:13:04 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGN setting up for HQBU's




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 18
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 10:13:53 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGC clearing landbridge.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 19
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 10:15:10 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS D=Z Town industry locked down.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 20
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 2:43:35 PM   
Griefhead

 

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T4
The first F2s show up at Leningrad and Moscow defense lines. The Dnepr was crossed at Kremenchug, 60 miles south of Cherkassy, and a panzer pushed through screening troops and is positioned next to D’town, stopping armament evacuation. I’m going to miss those 16 arms. At Kremenchug, six panzers and three motorized divisions arrived, with 900 tanks, to take part in battle - when it was all over two fresh panzers had crossed. In the north and center it was a GER consolidation move. GER is sitting about the same place north of Pskov as he was last turn with some movement east to test the defenses south of Lake Ilmen at Staraya Russa. The panzers in the center are now 20 miles west of Smolensk having showed very little movement. I guess 600T are in the north and 600T in the center. Starting deployment being 900T north, 900T center, and 1300T south.

SOV Response
A hasty retreat from the Dnepr north of Kiev up to Smolensk. South of Kiev and above Cherkassy at least half of the SOV troops will run away with the rest trying to do an orderly retreat. If I can’t bottle GER up at the Dnepr crossing for at least a turn this orderly retreat will turn into rout.
I expect a GER assault out of Smolensk straight towards Moscow with maybe four to six panzers and more motorized divisions. I am best positioned if this happens.
GER panzers (400-800?) and infantry are parked a little west of Lake Ilmen and he could go north or east from this position. I have defensive lines in both places with the one north of Ilmen being stronger. We will see.

Comment Added T7
Those babies at Kremenchug were gassed up and carrying full jerry cans! As a SOV player my understanding of HQBU is limited. During a game how many HQBU are performed? When are they done? Are there any detrimental effects going forward for GER?

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 21
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 3:04:06 PM   
Griefhead

 

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Marque - Morale levels are 105/95. I didn't know that when I started the game (didn't look at options) but then I thought maybe Pelton is right and they need adjustment. Later I realized that the problem with playing non-standard games is that you have no baseline to compare game-to-game. I won't play anything except standard settings in the future, unless everyone is. Regardless, 105/95 is way too much!

(in reply to Griefhead)
Post #: 22
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 4:11:19 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Pelton generally does one HQBU a turn. That means he always has a panzer corps ready to exploit deep. That combined with his zealous use of the Luftwaffe as a flying gas station means a very fast game tempo in 1941.

The detrimental effect is a loss of supply trucks, but it's a marginal effect. German players seldom complain of lack of trucks.

On the morale thing, yes, you signed on to play with a major handicap there. I wouldn't agree to giving the Axis more than 100 morals and a slight discount to Soviet morale in this current version of WiTE.

(in reply to Griefhead)
Post #: 23
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 4:45:27 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griefhead

Marque - Morale levels are 105/95. I didn't know that when I started the game (didn't look at options) but then I thought maybe Pelton is right and they need adjustment. Later I realized that the problem with playing non-standard games is that you have no baseline to compare game-to-game. I won't play anything except standard settings in the future, unless everyone is. Regardless, 105/95 is way too much!



The 105 vs 95 really has zero effect in 1941.

First thing is the 95 to SHC means nothing as the min NM for any country is 50.

Your simply playing someone who knows how to get gas from a rock.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Griefhead)
Post #: 24
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 4:49:16 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5860
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Pelton generally does one HQBU a turn. That means he always has a panzer corps ready to exploit deep. That combined with his zealous use of the Luftwaffe as a flying gas station means a very fast game tempo in 1941.

The detrimental effect is a loss of supply trucks, but it's a marginal effect. German players seldom complain of lack of trucks.

On the morale thing, yes, you signed on to play with a major handicap there. I wouldn't agree to giving the Axis more than 100 morals and a slight discount to Soviet morale in this current version of WiTE.


Trucks are never and issue with me because I disband Corp HQ's as they are about usless.

Playing with less then 103 morale for GHC would be stupid and or ignorant as NM is broken again.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 25
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 5:23:19 PM   
Spielverderber


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How can it be that the 105 vs 95 moral level has no effect in 41? Doesn't this setting lower the initial moral of all Soviet units? No offence, but your game play is entirely based on rushing your opponent to death. NM is almost no issue in 41 because the Soviet player has no time to leave his units far enough behind the front. Once you have your tanks in front of Leningrad/Moscow/Rostov the Soviet player has to stand his ground. Hence, no moral increase possible.

I don't mind that you adjust the moral settings and I agree that the game is unbalanced towards the Soviets later in the game. I also don't mind getting annihilated. But please don't pretend that it doesn't have an effect in 41.

If I'm wrong please let me know. I'm still a newbie.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 26
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 7:36:04 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Pelton, given the comparable skill sets, there are few on this forum who would say you playing with 103 morale or less against your latest opponents is stupid. 

Spiel, you're most likely going to take a drubbing but there's a lot to learn while you get kicked around.  I have all my turns saved from a game I had with Pelton (and lost) a long time ago and I learned a lot from how he played.  Generally you learn a lot more from playing good opponents than bad ones.   

(in reply to Spielverderber)
Post #: 27
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 7:36:49 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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<<double post>>

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 7/18/2013 7:37:53 PM >

(in reply to Spielverderber)
Post #: 28
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 7:45:24 PM   
Spielverderber


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I agree. It's a real learning experience. Those tanks just keep rolling. But I'm not panicking yet. Russia is big!






Attachment (1)

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 29
RE: Pelton vs Griefhead - 7/18/2013 7:52:29 PM   
Griefhead

 

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I agree with M60A3TTS. The morale settings, if adjusted, should be left alone for GER and lowered some amount for SOV. It's nonsense to think that morale settings have no effect in '41. It starts from the get go and will grow with time. It will peak in the blizzard and the first six months of '42, and then start to taper off.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 30
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