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Levels 2 & 3 Airbases

 
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Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/16/2013 4:09:45 AM   
39battalion

 

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Can level bombers ( i.e Bettys and Nells ), within range of an AirHQ with torpedo ordnance, launch torpedo bomber attacks from level 2 and level 3 airbases without penalty ?

Apologies if the answer to this is obviously stated somewhere, but after an extensive search I can't find a definitive answer.

Thx
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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/16/2013 4:13:06 AM   
geofflambert


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I've heard something somewhere that you don't have to be at the same base as the HQ with the inventory, but I don't know what the details are. Someone will come along and explain it.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/16/2013 4:48:11 AM   
Quixote


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Short answer - Betties and Nells will carry torpedoes out to regular range from AF2 and AF3 bases as long as they have an HQ supplied with torpedoes to draw from.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/16/2013 5:16:02 AM   
39battalion

 

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Thanks guys

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/16/2013 3:14:48 PM   
obvert


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The HQ does not have to be in the same base as the strike planes, just within it's command range, and the base must have adequate supply (not with a yellow or red flag). I believe 2E torpedo bombers must be in a level 3 field, but maybe it is level 2. Can't remember that now. I do know a 2E will not carry it's full bomb load from a level 2 base, but will use the extended range load.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 1:37:41 PM   
39battalion

 

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Thanks Obvert.

I will try using 2E level bombers using torps from a level 2 field and see what happens.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 1:45:34 PM   
tigercub


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I think you need 3size with HQ and supply 10,000...normal range.

Tiger

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 4:49:33 PM   
Quixote


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quote:

I think you need 3size with HQ and supply 10,000...normal range.



It takes maybe 10 minutes to set up a trial for this if you want to check it personally. I used the 1000 mile scenario for the results below. AF2, less than 10K supplies. Betties attack at normal range with torpedoes.




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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 5:18:05 PM   
LoBaron


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Interesting discussion guys, FYI the correct answer is two mouseklicks away...



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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 6:25:28 PM   
obvert


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I've attacked with Netties using torpedoes from a size three and I'm pretty certain a size two looking at my air HQ notes....

According to info posted years ago from MichealM and also saved in my notes---


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Interesting discussion guys, FYI the correct answer is two mouseklicks away...




From SuluSea's post in that thread.
---------------------------------

Torpedo Ordnance

Plus you need the supply available at the base:
for AF 4+, you 2 times (or 1 time with an air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 3, you 5 times (or 1 time with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 2, you 6 times (or 2 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 1, you 7 times (or 3 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply

You need a supply of torpedoes PLUS the supply requirements listed.
One without the other means can't use torpedoes.
BFs only supply the torpedoes. If no HQ, then you need to use the higher supply rates.

-------------------------

This is highly enlightening. Man, how many things can there be that I don't understand correctly still?

I had always thought no strike missions could be flown from a level 1 base. So is this due to the supply required? It would usually be over the supply limit unless the port was built up.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 7:24:14 PM   
czert2

 

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But well how i find base requred supply ? and it means that even without hq (and range to get torpedos from there) i can launch torpedo strikes anyway ?

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 7:42:07 PM   
Quixote


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The link provided by LoBaron and SuluSea's chart notwithstanding, light bombers will NOT attack from a level 1 airfield. Regardless of supply. Regardless of support. Regardless of anything, really. Again, you can try this out for yourself in a test scenario - the setup takes maybe 15 minutes. I only has the patience to run 30 turns this time, but based on both testing and the manual, Betties will never attack with torpedoes from an AF1.




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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/17/2013 8:08:45 PM   
LoBaron


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I found the attack mission rule for lvl 1AF suspicious as well.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/18/2013 6:39:28 AM   
39battalion

 

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Wow this question turned out to be a much trickier issue than I expected.

This game(simulation) continues to challenge and to delight. The best gaming investment I ever made.

And this forum continues to be a friendly and helpful source of relevant information. Thanks guys.

Too bad I just lost 3 carriers in my PBEM game

Nonetheless my understanding of the game mechanics is gradually improving

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/18/2013 1:37:54 PM   
czert2

 

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39batalion - if you are allied dont woryr about lost CVs, you will have plenty of them game, even having no carriers in whole 42/43 just only slown down you final push to win as allied commander (unless you lose to points :o, but many players keep plaing after "victory" for japanese side).
If you are japanese - lets allied are mercy on your soul.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/18/2013 1:55:51 PM   
Icedawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I've attacked with Netties using torpedoes from a size three and I'm pretty certain a size two looking at my air HQ notes....

According to info posted years ago from MichealM and also saved in my notes---


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Interesting discussion guys, FYI the correct answer is two mouseklicks away...




From SuluSea's post in that thread.
---------------------------------

Torpedo Ordnance

Plus you need the supply available at the base:
for AF 4+, you 2 times (or 1 time with an air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 3, you 5 times (or 1 time with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 2, you 6 times (or 2 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 1, you 7 times (or 3 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply

You need a supply of torpedoes PLUS the supply requirements listed.
One without the other means can't use torpedoes.
BFs only supply the torpedoes. If no HQ, then you need to use the higher supply rates.

-------------------------

This is highly enlightening. Man, how many things can there be that I don't understand correctly still?

I had always thought no strike missions could be flown from a level 1 base. So is this due to the supply required? It would usually be over the supply limit unless the port was built up.


My feelings exactly. I've played UV, WiTP and now AE going back to UV's original release and I stilll say stuff like this to myself. That's why this game is so great.

I've played some computer games that can be mastered in a couple hours. I don't think AE can be mastered in a couple lifetimes! I sure hope Hindus are correct about reincarnation.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/18/2013 6:02:28 PM   
czert2

 

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I allways thought that AB lvl1 is for figher operations only and that you need lvl2+ to carry any strike missions with non-fighters.
And im still puzzled why i cant lauch torpedo stikes from lvl 6 base with over 50k+ supply (using torpedos is red) and yes, hq have torpedos loades and yes, that unit is outside range from hq - unit is 13 hex away and hq have range of 5.

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 17
RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/18/2013 7:33:57 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2

I allways thought that AB lvl1 is for figher operations only and that you need lvl2+ to carry any strike missions with non-fighters.


As mentioned already some people, including myself, think this is an error. Lvl 1 AB does not allow offensive missions.

quote:

And im still puzzled why i cant lauch torpedo stikes from lvl 6 base with over 50k+ supply (using torpedos is red) and yes, hq have torpedos loades and yes, that unit is outside range from hq - unit is 13 hex away and hq have range of 5.


You say yourself, the unit is outside hq range, so what is puzzling about its´ inability to laumch torpedo attacks?

I posted above link because it contains most of the answers to the questions asked here, not because the answers are particularily accurate. You need torp odnance in range, and since in unmodded games no units except HQs have torpedo ordnance, this means you need an HQ in range no matter what.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/18/2013 9:21:35 PM   
czert2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

And im still puzzled why i cant lauch torpedo stikes from lvl 6 base with over 50k+ supply (using torpedos is red) and yes, hq have torpedos loades and yes, that unit is outside range from hq - unit is 13 hex away and hq have range of 5.


You say yourself, the unit is outside hq range, so what is puzzling about its´ inability to laumch torpedo attacks?

I posted above link because it contains most of the answers to the questions asked here, not because the answers are particularily accurate. You need torp odnance in range, and since in unmodded games no units except HQs have torpedo ordnance, this means you need an HQ in range no matter what.

Why im puzzled ?
because of this posted earlier :

Torpedo Ordnance

Plus you need the supply available at the base:
for AF 4+, you 2 times (or 1 time with an air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 3, you 5 times (or 1 time with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 2, you 6 times (or 2 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 1, you 7 times (or 3 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply

I thought that if you dont have hq in range you will only pay more supply to create/lauch torpedo strikes.
Or this tabble refering only to cost of creating torpedos ? If yes, then why it is here cost for outside hq range, since torps can be created only at hq ?

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 19
RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/18/2013 10:01:40 PM   
LoBaron


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The critical part of the text you quoted is the part you did not quote.

quote:

---------------------------------

Torpedo Ordnance

Plus you need the supply available at the base:
for AF 4+, you 2 times (or 1 time with an air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 3, you 5 times (or 1 time with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 2, you 6 times (or 2 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 1, you 7 times (or 3 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply

You need a supply of torpedoes PLUS the supply requirements listed.
One without the other means can't use torpedoes.

BFs only supply the torpedoes. If no HQ, then you need to use the higher supply rates.

-------------------------


The last line, hinting that BFs would supply the torpedoes, is simply wrong. It was initially considered to add torp supply to some BFs, but this was never implemented. This is what I was referring to in my previous post.

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/19/2013 2:12:50 AM   
Quixote


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This hints at nothing, and links to nothing. It's just correct.
(Note: I ran my tests exclusively in stock. I assume that the results hold true for most mods as well, but you know what they say about assuming.)




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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/19/2013 6:48:10 AM   
LoBaron


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Good test. It matches the description for AB2 with air HQ in the quote.

There are 'only' two things incorrect in the original quote, IMHO:

1) BFs do not supply torps on their own. This means, you need to have an air HQ in range to supply them, else it will be a bombing run independent of the other criteria met.
2) AB1 does not allow for offensive missions, you need at least AB2 for that.

quote:


---------------------------------

Torpedo Ordnance

Plus you need the supply available at the base:
for AF 3+: a air/command hq present and 1 time base's required supply
for AF 2: a air/command hq present and 2 times base's required supply

You need a supply of torpedoes (means: an air HQ with torpedo ordnance in range) PLUS the supply requirements listed.

-------------------------


_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Quixote)
Post #: 22
RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/19/2013 6:58:37 AM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quixote
"HQ, in range, with torpedoes"


Did you run the test with an air HQ at base, or not at base but within command radius?
This might make a difference.

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S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 23
RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/20/2013 7:20:10 AM   
39battalion

 

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@czert2 (post #15) : unfortunately I am playing as the Japanese. It's May 42 and three of my carriers are beneath the waves. Fortunately they are not all fleet carriers (1 CV, 1 CVL and 1 CVE) so it could have been worse. And now at least I know where his carriers are

But,as you say, now I am praying for mercy and for the Gods of War to be kind to me

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RE: Levels 2 & 3 Airbases - 6/22/2013 6:50:50 PM   
HexHead

 

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In my PbeM, which is stock, I just used a Turn to 'test' something.

Looks like I've been running Port Attk & Nav Attk out of a level 1 AF. Those aren't offensive Missions?

I don't have the app up, but will if details are needed here.

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