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DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's)

 
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DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/16/2013 3:10:54 AM   
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Decided to take the plunge and start another campaign. I am a bit concerned that the duo will shut me down pretty hard but I also figure it will help me learn a lot of Soviet tricks. I've got a lot of commitments right now so keeping up an AAR might be a bit daunting but I'll do my best to keep it updated. I just sent back T1 so I'll post in a couple days when this turn is sent back.

Started with traditional sack of Riga, Lvov opening, and neglected Airfield bombing and Ground support in order to provide maximum refueling on T1. I figure it almost helps the Soviets out to rid them of their ancient planes so let the Pro's waste AP's reconfiguring their Air Force. Update coming soon!
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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/16/2013 8:28:06 AM   
cpt flam


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Best wishes for your action.
You will need some luck.
Will it be fix weather ?

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/17/2013 9:13:40 AM   
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GL

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/19/2013 2:36:41 AM   
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Thanks! I'll need it against these guys.

T2 is finished and sent back. All pockets held and good progress is made. About another 16-20 units pocketed but around half are security units. Still, at least they will not be on the map.

AGC strikes north of Vitebsk and is across the Daugavala in force. AGS makes decent progress. A full pictoral Update with losses and all when T3 comes back.

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/22/2013 2:27:53 AM   
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T3 - July 3, 1941


Before German moves, after Recon

So finally got T3 back. Attached along with the save was a quip from Sillyflower saying that they love to annoy axis players..I agree. T3 was a bit annoying but not critical. First we have the Northern Theater.

1- 4Pz cleared some hexes and cut off 2 infantry and about 5-6 misc smaller formations. The Pro's managed to open the pocket and successfully attack one of my panzer regiments. MY goal with 4PZ was to clear the way for the infantry. Even with T3 all I want to do is secure a bridgehead across the Pskov river and allow infantry and rails to catch up. In fact thats the plan across the front.

2- I Corps managed to get its infantry across the river last turn so they will be able to help seal in whatever units I can keep trapped this turn. I should be able to get the rest of AGN's infantry across the river this turn.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/22/2013 2:31:38 AM   
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Center Front

My standard opening in the Center. Pro's have fled behind the river and are mirroring my movements. They will stay just out of range for me to trap them but close enough to be a pest. They managed to open all but one of my pockets this turn. (Except for the one's formed on T1)




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/22/2013 2:35:25 AM   
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Southern Front

1- Here we see an isolated Tank division send my FBD unit into a tailspin as the Reds routed my rail guys and severed my fledgling rail line. Again, its an annoyance but not critical. I should have those tank divisions annihilated this turn.

2- Even with 4-5 hexes of friendly hex as a buffer 2 Tank divisions sever the Panzer Spearhead isolating XXIV Pz Corps. Granted they lose those 2 Tank divisions next turn but maybe it was worth it. Probably going to do a HQ buildup this turn for XXIV Pz Corps.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/22/2013 8:44:39 AM   
SigUp

 

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This doesn't look good at all for you. The Pro's are indeed showing their quality.

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/23/2013 1:52:35 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

The Pro's are indeed showing their quality.


I agree. If the "Pro's" don't step up their game they will quickly lose their reputation. In all seriousness I don't share the pessimism. They are giving up a lot of ground and my fleet of bombers are keeping my Panzer spearheads well fueled up. They were irritating last turn but not critical by any means. I think of it like this, If your spearheads aren't getting attacked then your not penetrating far enough. The Pro's have given up a lot of ground near Pskov that could easily have been held this turn. This also allowed 3rd Pz to exploit North of Vitebsk and isolate 3 divisions. Hopefully this yields some solid gains.

All AGN infantry is across the river except for the OKH reinforcements which were just assigned to 16. Army. Also of note my Rail line is moving East instead of through Riga (hat tip Michael)

TURN 3 AFTER GERMAN MOVES





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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/23/2013 1:59:02 AM   
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TURN 3 AFTER GERMAN MOVES


The bigger picture. AGC infantry is making decent speed. 3pz infantry are across the River and are helping exploit north of Vitebsk. 4th and 9th armies are catching up to the tanks, but likely will not be that useful until T5. I aim to secure the East bank of the River in the next 3 turns.





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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/23/2013 2:02:51 AM   
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I didn't save before I ended the turn and AGS was finished last. Overall the Duo fled at least 6 hexes East and in some cases around 10. I used my tanks to clear all the hexes for the infantry next turn. Like AGC I have left the opening big pocket to the devices of axis allies and a few German Jager units. It will take longer to destroy but nearly all of German infantry in AGS are marching East. I also bagged 2 tank and 1 motor division. I have a feeling the Duo likes sacrificing these to preserve Rifle units. Why would you leave a motorized division as a suicide city garrison? No pictures on the South until next turn.

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/27/2013 10:29:48 PM   
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TURN 4


Army Group North Continues to advance in the wake of a steady Soviet withdrawal. Here we see a driving thrust by Pz4 which isolates 2 divisions in the swamps. I'm not very crazy about this pocket and it will likely be broken. Has I the extra mp's I would have gladly routed them out of there but no such capabilities were available.

I'm also a little concerned about by flank of the entire panzer group. When I loaded my save to make this AAR I realized my flank was a little weak. He can't cut off the whole army but if he sacrificed a good mobile division he could tighten the supply road a bit and displace 2 of my HQ's. For all the attention I gave this move..this was a foolish mistake. We'll see if the Pro's capitalize. My rail is running straight East right now, but North of the Daugavala.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/27/2013 10:37:17 PM   
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TURN 4


AGC is moving very well. The Pro's left a lot of strength near Smolensk and the entire Southern stretch of the Dnepr. Sorry but I have no desire to bang my head against a river and face reserve activations..I'll bypass the strong points and eliminate an army while I'm at it.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/27/2013 10:41:40 PM   
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TURN 4


AGS is also moving very well but my rail situation is borderline bad. The Pro's really jammed up my Northern AGS rail unit by severing my main line in two places. Luckily this game I decided to run my 11. Army FBD NE so my rail is actually in a decent position, but I had hoped to have a solid line running East both in the North Ukraine and South. The Pro's abandon Odessa leaving no fight for the Romanians.

Here we see a pocket with a whole mix of units. I could have smashed a hole in the Dnepr line but I wanted to trap units instead. I'm not even sure if I will cross in force next turn...probably going to be T6 when I have a safe reliable bridgehead.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/29/2013 9:26:44 PM   
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TURN 5


Some notes before continuing:

-One of the first things I do in 41 is optimize my Corps by getting 8:8 and 3 per army. This keeps all my Corps and my armies under Command limit. This frees up a lot of Corps' and for these I attach directly to the AG's or OKH. As you can see in my first screenshot (or not quite yet) I am using XXXVIII Corps,previously under 18. Army now AGN, to start clearing out the emptied Estonia. I am also using another Corps with 2 divisions broken into regiments to start screening the swamps between Novgorod and Velikye Luki. Just a thought.

-Your Flamm Panzer SU's are the strongest SU the axis get until heavy panzer battalions start arriving. You get to keep these until December I believe. Anyway, I usually send these to OKH right away to keep them for specialty missions. You'll lose them in movement attrition in the first few turns and they suck gasoline like a full division. No, I use these to attach to infantry when I start hitting a brick wall. I used 2 of them on T5. One in AGC to knock a ruskie out of a swamp, the other was assigned to an AGS Motor division after he crossed the Dnepr. I assigned it to help the motor division hold the bridgehead.

More to follow.

T5 I had 5 holds, 2 scouts, 29 retreats, 6 routs, and 7 surrenders. The Pro's broke all 3 pockets from T4 but they are resealed with more of their comrades inside. T5 was good to me. I don't think the Pro's have a lot of recourse..we'll see.

AGN surrounds Pskov and about 9 units. We are in position to assault the Luga next turn.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/29/2013 9:34:00 PM   
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TURN 5


AGC reforms the main pocket and forms another and clears a lot of swamps for the 9th army to come into action next turn. I'm not crazy about 3Pz being thrown into the swamps near Velikye Luki but this is the closest spot to the railhead and its paying dividends right now. Plus the Pro's left it relatively unguarded which allowed me to flip a lot of hexes. As you can see 2nd and 3rd Pz are in a position to wheel hard East and flank Smolensk next turn. If the Russians hold the Dnepr I see another pocket in the making.

60th Motor division gets assigned to 2nd Pz.

The 2nd Army gets excellent mp rolls and forms a tight pocket around 2 mech divisions while crossing the Berezina in force.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/29/2013 9:46:58 PM   
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TURN 5


AGS continues to drive relentlessly forward. I had horrible mp rolls this turn as the Pro's, while rescuing the pocket, strangled the supply line of my mech units to 1 hex. I did however seal this pocket with a vengeance. I also forded a bridgehead and cleared a 4 hex opening for the infantry to make the bridgehead permanent next turn. I did attach 1 flamm panzer, 1 stug, and 1 flak unit directly to my motor division that crossed. Only 1 division could get across so it will likely suffer horrible attrition as its thrown back. However, this will require a lot of strength to dislodge and will tie down more units on the River.

If I secure a bridgehead next turn and get infantry across I will likely turn 1Pz South to trap more units and assist the Romanians.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/29/2013 10:57:37 PM   
bigbaba


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wow your railhead in the center are realy near the front. good job. the pros seem to be not that pro because they fought forward and allowed you to pocket some units in west ukraine.

like we say in germany "they too cook only with water".:)

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 6/30/2013 1:57:11 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

wow your railhead in the center are realy near the front. good job. the pros seem to be not that pro because they fought forward and allowed you to pocket some units in west ukraine.

like we say in germany "they too cook only with water".:)


Yah I always double up on the line running through Vilnius. Once pass Vilnius they split. One goes NE towards Vitebsk the other goes towards Minsk and go continue on SE or E depending on the need. So far the campaign fares well. We'll see how brutal it gets once I close in on Leningrad and cross the Dnepr.

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/6/2013 2:41:40 AM   
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TURN 7


Overall turn 7 was a mix of moving my units up and having to think the next few moves ahead as my capabilities were limited...except in the North.

In the North I had 1 hold and about 15-20 retreat/routes. Much of the Northern Front is routed. Had I a few more Corps I could have simply wreaked utter havoc on him but I think the damage is done. I still have some swamps to grind through but sealing Leningrad should be relatively easy. Right now I'm thinking of sealing off Karelia and trapping the 8-10 divisions arrayed against the Finns.

My best leaders and best SU's (pioneers, Flamm Panzers etc) are now directly attached to AGN's divisions.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/6/2013 3:18:43 AM   
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You're doing well.The pros have a game on their hands I think.Have you got any other screens?
I'm doing the same thing with FBD 2 and 3.My FBD 4 goes Daugavpils Pskov though.That way you get an early AGN/AGC rail link and the network is more partisan proof.

< Message edited by timmyab -- 7/6/2013 3:26:26 AM >

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/7/2013 7:00:40 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

You're doing well.The pros have a game on their hands I think.Have you got any other screens?
I'm doing the same thing with FBD 2 and 3.My FBD 4 goes Daugavpils Pskov though.That way you get an early AGN/AGC rail link and the network is more partisan proof.


That was my approach as well. You don't really need to supply anything though Estonia anyway.

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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/7/2013 7:36:16 PM   
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TURN 8


In the South the Pro's retreat 10 hexes a turn only to see my panzers gobble up the empty hexes allowing the infantry to follow. We did get 5 cities though: Odessa, Kirvoi Rog, Kirvgorad, Nikoleav, and Chernigov.All undefended!

We pushed/trapped 2 divisions out of Odessa and 2 divisions near Chernigov. Uneventful turn.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/7/2013 7:46:13 PM   
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TURN 8


In the Center it was starting to look formidable. The Pro's hugged the east of the high Dnepr and had a solid line developing. Luckily the 4th and 9th armies were moved to the front last turn which allowed me to open up the North half of his line and pocket 7 healthy divisions. I almost had 8 but it was either a solid pocket with 7 or a loose pocket with 8. I seriously doubt he can break this one. I'm almost to Rzhev!!!

In the Southern half the 2nd Army gobbles up empty hexes but puts the bulk of its weight on the Southern half. Im hoping to push an envelopment which will now be assisted by the return of the XXIV pz Corps (I'm considering leasing another pz Corps from 1st PG to 2nd. The Pro's are giving the southern player a lot of strength to make it enjoyable for him. I may just make the Southern front dormant and drive in the Center.

Finally, Smolensk was surrendered without a fight??? Even when isolated a single ID can put out enough CV to make a light urban hex a pain. A horrible mistake (albeit with limited consequences but still) I'd never do this as a Russian.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/7/2013 8:06:36 PM   
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TURN 8


Now for a couple of DV's pointers.

- Learn to maximize your withdrawing divisions/SU's. For example: The Finns have a lot of units withdraw early on. Set the divisions to 75% TOE and the withdrawing SU's to 50% (SU's withdraw regardless of strength according to the manual). Use these to cause attrition and build forts while your permanent divisions rest in the rear. Always keep track of when your units start withdrawing. If they withdraw above 75% TOE than that excess material disappears into a vacuum. As an axis player every bit helps.

- I always spend appx 50 of my AP's early on moving a lot of construction crews back to the AG's. I keep a couple with each Corps but strip the armies of all of them. The AG HQ's remain stationary and thus deploy dozens of repair crews to start converting rail early on. This helps prevent a crippling partisan attack and build multiple back up rails. Once the rails are complete (post 42) you can either stack your construction guys in Corps for faster fort building, assign them directly to FZ's, or disband them to free the manpower. Don't do the latter though until your manpower is gone.

Back to my turn: I did in fact get 1 nasty hold this turn. 6 divisions attacked 2 and got 2 reserves which caused over a 1k losses. Overall though we cleared the swamp belt north of Novgorod and can pivot either North or drive east and clear the Volkhov river.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/14/2013 12:25:43 AM   
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TURN 10


Overall the drive has slowed but not stopped. Turn 10 has seen infantry move up, rails move up, and the Soviets move further away. The main action is near Leningrad and Rhvez.

I made what, in my opinion, was a risky maneuver near Leningrad. Some might not find it super risky but basically I saw that I had Leningrad in the bag fairly easy and so I decided to up the odds. If you look at the map East of Leningrad you see that Tivkin is basically the main rail junction that feeds the entire Leningrad/Karelia area. I diverted all of 16th army and 4th pz to push east of the Volhov and drive towards Tivkin. If I can sever that rail line it will set back KArelia's rail head by about 20-25 hexes of heavy woods and swamp. It will also sever push the rail head way far back for Leningrad's defenders. This will put an enormous strain on the PRO's truck fleet and reduce efficiency for all the Northern Fronts. In fact, if someone wanted to exploit the engine, they could leave a very long narrow supply corridor to wreck the Red truck fleet. I will not do this but it is a possible exploit in this single dimensional supply system. I hope that 4th pz can sever all of KArelia in about 2-3 turns and trap between 40-50 divisions. All remaining reinforcements are being sent north.

The 18th army remains West of the Volkhov (for now) and continues to push to Lake Ladoga.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/14/2013 12:33:17 AM   
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TURN 10


The center Front has slowed as well but next turn should present some opportunities. T9 saw me isolate 4 divisions but the pocket was busted open. This turn I simply resealed the pocket and routed them out. The terrain of the area and horrible mp rolls didn't leave me a lot of choice. I wanted my rear area secure so I let the fish rout out. This turn I have pulled 5 tank divisions off the line to refit a few hexes back. I hope now that rails are a lot closer and my infantry are at the front that I can rip open a pocket and wreak havoc on Sillyflower. I can either use the panzer groups together to attack Vyazma, or split them up the form mini pockets near bryansk and Rhzev.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/14/2013 12:39:57 AM   
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TURN 10


In the South its basically been run away my sweet darling. Sean has yet to meet a fight he couldn't run away from. I think the two have coordinated and, realizing that my main impetus is in the North, have played the strategy of run away in the South and reinforce the North. At first they were giving the south more units than it needed but after my impressive drive they changed plans. This is just a hypothesis.

This turn I didn't push my tanks too far I simply positioned them for next turn and let the infantry move up. I did use my motor divisions to flip empty hexes but a rather uneventful turn in the South. Overall I hope to drive Sean to the Don and create a rather impressive blizzard buffer.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/21/2013 12:59:17 PM   
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TURN 12


Here is the picture of AGN. Apparently Sillyflower realized the danger approaching and just abandoned Leningrad a bit early. From here I just kept pushing everything east of the Volkhov and drive towards Tivkin. At the end of 12 I have enough mp's to sack Tivkin and sever the railhead feeding KArelia. The defense line east of Lake Janisari is abandoned and a pocket is forming. Right now I have a ZOC lock on about 12 divisions and hope to pin them against Lake Ladoga. Whether this pocket is realize or not I will turn 4th Panzer South afterwards to strike behind the Valdai region and capture this region as a Blizzard buffer.




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RE: DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (No Pro's) - 7/21/2013 1:11:18 PM   
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TURN 12


Here in the center I get my first crippling rail attack. I sent my FBD guy back to fix it. Maybe the automated rail guys would have fixed it this turn, maybe not, couldn't take that chance.

Otherwise I form a decent pocket North of Rhzev and a small pocket further to the South. I made a breakthrough with the 2nd PZ north of Vyazma but was happy with just smashing the forts and pulling back to safety. Even if he occupies the hexes again I've weakened his position here. Both pz divisions from next turn will be going to group Center along with Das Reich returning from AGS.

I have to admit though, I am worried about my fate next turn. my 4th army and 2nd pz have weak flanks in the Center. Sillyflower sent me a menacing email promising me he dealt with my breakthrough and something about clear terrain. I never with guy but I'm kind of scared. I loaded my save and realized I might have half of AGC isolated next turn...who knows.




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