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Laying mines into an enemy port

 
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Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 2:24:39 PM   
Sieppo


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Will they be seen as my mines or will they turn to be his?

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 2:38:39 PM   
Zigurat666


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They always show as your mines...Allied are green/Nips are red

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 2:55:58 PM   
Sieppo


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So I won't be hitting them even if in an enemy base hex?

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 2:58:56 PM   
Terminus


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If you're asking if you can accidentally run into your own minefield laid in an enemy hex then the answer is yes.

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 3:15:58 PM   
Sieppo


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Ok accidentally is the answer here :).

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 3:29:49 PM   
dr.hal


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Mines have no brains (at least WWII mines didn't) and thus they explode no matter who runs into them. What you have as an advantage is that you "know" where the mines have been located and thus have a far better chance of avoiding them. You opponent doesn't have that advantage until he/she starts sweeping them. So there is a small risk to your own ships in regard to hitting them but very small in comparison to the first ship your opponents sends into the hex!

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 3:42:50 PM   
Sieppo


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But I still will hit mines at an enemy hex even if I know they are there but not at a friendly hex. Of course there would be particular information about the location of the minefield. My theory was that this is just a game and will calculate mines located being at an enemy base hex as the minefield of the enemy but apparently the game is smarter than that (?) :). Thanks for the info.

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 4:48:35 PM   
dr.hal


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Actually Sieppo I believe you CAN hit your own mines in your own hex.... I believe I had that happen once. But I can't remember for sure. Others might be able to chime in here. Hal

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 5:50:49 PM   
Sieppo


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Yes it happens but it's rare. I've had it also happen to me.

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 7:27:43 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Actually Sieppo I believe you CAN hit your own mines in your own hex.... I believe I had that happen once. But I can't remember for sure. Others might be able to chime in here. Hal


On the campaign game I just took over, mid-January '42, two of my ACMs have been lost to Type 4 (i.e., Japanese) mines. One at Truk, one at Hiroshima. Despite never seeing it happen before, I knew it could happen, I just never imagined I would see that my predecessor had suffered 2 friendly minefield losses, and to minefield tenders to boot.

Losing minefield tenders to friendly mines is a bit flabbergasting.

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 7:37:53 PM   
crsutton


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You can hit your own mines in an enemy hex but the odds are less than if they were enemy mines. A lot of times it is worth the risk but I have lost a couple of DDs this way. Rarely will you trip a mine of your own at your own base.

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 7:49:24 PM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

Ok accidentally is the answer here :).


I think the answer here is "hoisted by your own petard"..


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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 11:14:55 PM   
pompack


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Several threads on this but they were some time ago and I can't find them.

Summary from memory:

Definitions
1. Hostile mine: it will kill you with relatively high probability
2. Friendly mine: it will kill you with relatively low probability

Case 1. you lay mine in your port: mine is friendly to you, hostile to enemy (mine and port colors the same)
Case 2. you lay mine in enemy port: mine is hostile to you, hostile to enemy (mine and port colors different)
Case 3. enemy lays mine in your port: mine is hostile to you, hostile to enemy (mine and port colors different)
Case 4. enemy lays mine in enemy port: mine is hostile to you, friendly to enemy (mine and port colors the same)

Now when ports are seized by opponent, things are reasonable straightforward for cases 1 and 4
Case 1a. Case 1 port seized by enemy (colors different): hostile to everybody
Case 4a. Case 4 port seized by you (colors different): hostile to everybody


However for case 2 and 3 it gets strange
Case 2a. Case 2 port seized by you (colors same) ???
Case 3a Case 3 port seized by enemy (colors same) ???


Tests were confusing because "friendly" mines keep sinking your ships, but it seems that when you seize an enemy port previously mined by you that the incidence of "friendly" mines sinking your ships was way too high.

Now there is historical precedent for your offensive minefield in an enemy port being hostile since offensive minefields are not surveyed to the accuracy of defensive minefields . So just taking an enemy port would not automatically update the position information just because you took the port.

As I say, all from memory for what it's worth

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 11:27:48 PM   
denisonh


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Friendly minefields were generally documented and tended, so the issue was less running into the mines as it is running into one that broke free and drifted into the navigation channels (hence the function of the minefield tenders...)

Offensive minefields were often dropped with less precision and not tended.

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RE: Laying mines into an enemy port - 6/13/2013 11:42:41 PM   
Sieppo


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So we have our answer:

Case 2. you lay mine in enemy port: mine is hostile to you, hostile to enemy (mine and port colors different)

Thanks :)!

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