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Pirates need a serious rework

 
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Pirates need a serious rework - 6/10/2013 11:44:16 AM   
paShadoWn

 

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Joined: 6/10/2013
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So i came to a conclusion that the whole pirate base system is sick and must be put down.

Instead, make a new set of intelligence missions:
- Infiltrate government: makes empire to accept your protection fee
- Establish protection racket: siphons percentage of planet income
- Establish smuggling ring: gives your freighters free access to empire resources
- Establish docks district: gives you ability to build ships on the planet (thus eliminating helpless, cheesy constructor event)
- build casino: if relations with empire good enough, construct a resort facility on planet with no mfing way to demo it except bombardment or doom star
- establish hacker network: steals a percentage of empire research and gives full visibility

Recently i took up Shadows and dismissed shadow empire as boring (really, who needs to wait 2 hours before at last getting to galactic conquest if playing on max tech costs? certainly not me).

Pirates though picqued my attention by being elusive (no ties to planets, can hide anywhere), looting and new. Well, right off the bat i ran into automation bug (if you change policies and designs before unpausing first time game breaks) then i found that pirates have broken money sink: their bases. 30k, demo'd in every raid. Soon after i found a colony ship and guess what? After a raid my pd fought my hidden base!

And the corresponding set of counter missions like establish secret police or something to combat pirate influence.

No, seriously, what sane pirate would build base on planet(hidden, yeeeeah...)for 6 times space base cost, get it destroyed on yearly basis but continue to persist?

Most of the missions should be available to pirate captains as well.

And the ability of pirates to directly control planets should be removed. If we wanted to play normal empire we would do so at start. Thus if pirate gets a colonizer (finds it or builds at controlled dock) the planet it colonizes becomes independent or belonging to empire colonizer was built at.

< Message edited by paShadoWn -- 6/10/2013 11:59:15 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/10/2013 6:40:59 PM   
Plant


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Joined: 4/23/2013
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Yeah, pirates seem interesting at first, but within the first game I played with them, they had already turned bland, becuase of the disconnect between the potential gameplay, and the actual gameplay. Your ideas are interesting.

(in reply to paShadoWn)
Post #: 2
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/10/2013 7:55:19 PM   
Admiral Moe Lester

 

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Joined: 6/23/2012
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Being commanding isn't much of a way to garner respect from fellow forumrites and the devs, however I do believe that you have touched on an important topic that can be taken in interesting new directions.

I think further diversifying the play styles of the "pirates" could certainly make that aspect of the game a lot more interesting. For instance, you point out the absurdity of pirates seeking to settle down which makes a bit more sense for raider types (which your proposed ideas could possibly become new options for them) but not so much for powerful mercenary companies or trading empires looking to solidify their control over planets. For the latter two, I think some more "settlement" options could become available under certain circumstances, such as a mercenary group seizing control of a territory and transitioning into a recognized government or a powerful smuggling group setting down roots and forming something akin to the merchant republics of the middle ages.

(in reply to Plant)
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RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/10/2013 8:32:28 PM   
invaderzim

 

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Joined: 6/3/2013
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quote:

Well, right off the bat i ran into automation bug (if you change policies and designs before unpausing first time game breaks)


What automation bug is this and how do you reproduce it?

(in reply to Admiral Moe Lester)
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RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/10/2013 9:14:08 PM   
Lev13

 

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I think pirates are a lot of fun to play, but I really like your ideas 1, 2 and 3.

(in reply to invaderzim)
Post #: 5
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/10/2013 9:47:52 PM   
paShadoWn

 

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Joined: 6/10/2013
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It was covered somewhere on forums. Basically, you get zero maintenance and most of your ships dont do missions.

Garner respect? You confuse me with attention whore sir. As i stated before, my only goal is to make this game with ****ton of potential and 'poor' implementation improve. It have tons of flaws even now, after a few years. First i picked it it was unplayable. Ingenious ship autodesign produces one-shot junk to this day. AI empires can offer 'some' resistance only when they pick up pre-designed battleships somewhere. The resupply ship for pirates is an open admission of helplessness from devs: they know that witout it pirates would spawn junk and get instawiped. Know what i did in my first shadow game? Got a bubble and shields and wiped all nearby pirates with railgun rush. Then their supply ships harassed me for years. I wonder why devs wont scrap their autodesign and just plain write templates for research paths and designs. When you consistently fail at something for years, considering a resignation isnt too bad an idea. Element of randomness? When you get different junk each time it doesnt adds to gameplay as much as it is supposed to.

< Message edited by paShadoWn -- 6/10/2013 10:06:15 PM >

(in reply to invaderzim)
Post #: 6
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/10/2013 10:54:29 PM   
Admiral Moe Lester

 

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Joined: 6/23/2012
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I apologize if I gave undue offense. You have probably noticed by now that the internet happens to be quite good at creating miscommunications. You came off a bit hostile and it is much harder to accept arguments from someone(seemingly)trying to create conflict regardless of how right they may be. It is much easier to convince people if you can persuade them that you are on their side and not a crazed man shouting insults on the internet.


(in reply to paShadoWn)
Post #: 7
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/16/2013 7:30:36 PM   
paShadoWn

 

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Joined: 6/10/2013
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Well if we are into offtop i will tell you this: your obsession with tranquility or what is it - placidity? complacency? borders on insanity itself.

I once went into an amusing discussion on why Borderlands 2 are too easy, it was proceeding with lots of valuable arguments for both sides and what did i got? Comes mod, says ymmd and closes thread. That means, literally, if your opinion differs from our flock gtfo.

Have you played KotOR2? There are wise words said there: conflict strenghtens. I play pvp games all day and sometimes get into fights at night and i gained considerable strength of spirit.

Btw ty for subtly implicating that i am crazed man shouting insults straight after unnecessary apology. It was amusing.

I do fully realise that the devs have their own vision of the game and their implementing limitations and my suggestion would be ignored most likely. But it is better to attempt 10% hit than pass. Because some of the suggestions i made in life were executed. To quite pleasing results.

* * *

Back on topic: i came to a conclusion that defining a pirate faction as merely a set of ships and bases is incomplete. As pirates are essentially factions of population, properly converted, indoctrinated and educated, destroying all their ships and bases will leave their infiltrated members amidst the planetary population. Who can gain control of wharves and rebuild again. So here goes the next set of proposition:

- Make planetary population divided into factions: imperialists, unaligned civilians, pirates. You can fully tax only your own faction, cannot tax hostile factions, and can extort from neutrals when having enough ground troops to intimidate them; you can convert population to your faction thru facilities and governor missions. Low popularity leads to ppl leaving your faction. You can force draft civilians as imperialist or corrupt them as pirate. Pirates can mask their faction to be displayed as civilians or imperialists.

- Make for each faction an independent build slot
- Give pirates an ability to conceal their ships and bases as civilian until they attack
- Make a planetary facility spaceport because we can build cons and colonies on planets why not the rest?

That would lead to interesting situations like planetary faction wars, pirates making sudden uprisings and overthrowing planets and other fun stuff.

(in reply to Admiral Moe Lester)
Post #: 8
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/16/2013 8:19:54 PM   
MarQan


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I agree with your first set of improvements.
Though I play Pre-Warp empires too, with 999K research, where micromanaging is key to survival. Also in that way you get stronger enemies than you are, who will only start to fight you if you want it. Playing on harder difficulty against more advanced empires is impossible most of the time, because they don't even want to subjugate you.

On the other hand:
Planatery population divided: too far-fetched, much needs to be done before they should even consider that. For example, a population management for EVERY SINGLE RACE instead of same kind and others, so you can build the race-specific colony ships much sooner.

Civilian and military ships are too different for concealment. One has cargo or passenger component and is slow, while the other is radiating because of charged weapons. Smuggling ships are already concealed.

Planetary construction yards.. I could live with that, but I'd rather make a stripped SSP design, designated for construction.

(in reply to paShadoWn)
Post #: 9
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/16/2013 8:56:59 PM   
paShadoWn

 

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Joined: 6/10/2013
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Yes i face lots of arguments "its too much works" these days. Its soo much better to sell pre-alpha for exorbitant price, like Matrix or these Stardock dudes with their fabulous elemental. I pirated FE:LH recently to see what they did for years guess what? same bugged (though less), unrefined (though they attempt to add more unbalanced stuff), boring junk. Or these Uber guys. Uber price for honest pre-alpha. It fits onto a first page of steam price sorted list. (i will tell you a secret: i watched it on utube and it is junk) Sigh i wish to be a pharaoh of modern Egypt empire... these guys did not even considered "too much work" thing. But no, i would have to care about things other than games then. So motivator device to stick into devs would suffice.

About concealment, i did not said as civilian. I said as faction. So these ships can bear your colours and fly in your fleets then bam they desert and start looting.

About far-fetched, they did planetary control system which is like faction system i propose in core mechanics, and they survived the exhaustion somehow.

(in reply to MarQan)
Post #: 10
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/16/2013 9:25:08 PM   
MarQan


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Off-topic: Yes, most programmers, especially in the game-industry are lazy, overpayed and they still think they're doing their jobs just because more than enough people pays the (over-)price for their games. Planetary Annihalation is a joke..
I'd exclude Distant Worlds though, they work in a fair pace given that the game is so complex IMO.

I didn't mean far-fetched as too much work, I meant that there are more important things to do before.

Then I agree, faction/empire concealment is a very good idea.

(in reply to paShadoWn)
Post #: 11
RE: Pirates need a serious rework - 6/16/2013 10:53:18 PM   
paShadoWn

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 6/10/2013
Status: offline
Well, another year, another forty bucks, and they may actually do it.

About joke, haha they even not hide it. You had of course watched this "the most important part of the game: the lewt" ahhh the sarcasm

(in reply to MarQan)
Post #: 12
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