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remarks and questions for 2by3

 
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remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 3:37:48 AM   
Maximeba

 

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I thought I read somewhere that 2by3 now has all the maps to Europe and Africa. So I was wondering are they going to put out other games? I was a GDW junkie. What was so great about GDW was they had giant games like Fire in the East and Second Front to smaller ones like Case White (Poland), Their Finest Hour (France), Norway, and the Balkan Front and medium sized games like War in the Desert. What was great about these games is they all used the same game mechanics, so if you were familiar with one game you knew the basic game mechanics of all their games.

I've read 2by3 is working on a game for the West but have they thought about creating other games like smaller ones like Case White, or medium ones like War in the Desert? I would definately be in the front of the line to buy them.

I don't know if 2by3 ever thought about this, but GDW used to offer a discount if you bought the game before it was completely designed, this helped the company with the cost of developing the game and kept cash flow coming into the company.

GDW had a cult following and was a trusted company by the followers of the compnany. In my short experience with this game, the gaming community and the responses by the 2by3 on this site, it seems to me that 2by3 has the same great qualities that GDW had. I know I feel comfortable with 2by3 and would be willing to pay for games in advance, knowing they will come out a couple months later, and feel others may too.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 4:32:53 AM   
Michael T


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GDW were great, so were their games. Things went downhill when GR/D took over Europa :(

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 11:59:50 AM   
rmonical

 

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I think all of the old GDW grognards will end up here.

Certainly, the WITW project almost finishes the map.

I would assume that Case White etc gets rolled into the larger 39-41 game.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 12:13:37 PM   
morvael


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The expansions for WitE show that they do create smaller scenarios for their games, though at start the focus is usually on bigger campaigns.

Once full WiE will be available, I'd love to play Operation Unthinkable campaign :)

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 1:21:54 PM   
Ketza


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I think many of us old GDW guys are here.

Two teams battling it out over a weekend playing Fire in the east. Those were the days.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 2:16:44 PM   
Peter Fisla


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I love Europa, I have Fire in the East/Scorched Earth/Urals and War in the desert (Collector's edition) :D Though I have no interest in getting Total War from HMS. It took me a while to get into War in the East though I have it and all the expansions, greetings to all Europa fans This brings me to the same question again, why War in the East is not using units stacking rule like it is in Europa...why War in the East has 3 units (no matter what kind of size of units) stacking rule?!

Cheers!

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 5:19:52 PM   
Joel Billings


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Here's the jump map that shows the area covered by our War in Europe map. The blue rectangle is the area we're focused on for War in the West 43-45, but we will have the entire map mostly done soon. These games are on the horizon:

War in the West 43-45
War in the East 2.0
War in the West 1940
War in the Med 1941-43

For the WitW 40 and WitW 41-43, a more detailed naval game will have to be created. Eventually, a full War in Europe could be attempted that puts everything together. The biggest issue with that aside from the sheer scale and time required to play would be all of the diplomatic issues that existed. We're taking one step at a time.

As for the stacking, something that sounds simple like stacking limits can actually be a huge task to change. The interface and AI chnages required would be substantial. Sometimes I envy boardgames because if you can think up the rule and write it down, it can be changed in a minute. Not so with computer games.




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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 9:08:54 PM   
Numdydar

 

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Time? Who cares about time . Ask a WitP AE player (like me ) if time is a consideration in playing ANY game . My Allied opponent and I will be at three years of real time in playing out PBEM game in August. The game is now in 11/44. So a full ETO game would not bother me in the least lol.

So Joel if you want a pre-order for the whole package, just let me know lol.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/6/2013 11:17:28 PM   
IronDuke

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Here's the jump map that shows the area covered by our War in Europe map. The blue rectangle is the area we're focused on for War in the West 43-45, but we will have the entire map mostly done soon. These games are on the horizon:

War in the West 43-45
War in the East 2.0
War in the West 1940
War in the Med 1941-43

For the WitW 40 and WitW 41-43, a more detailed naval game will have to be created. Eventually, a full War in Europe could be attempted that puts everything together. The biggest issue with that aside from the sheer scale and time required to play would be all of the diplomatic issues that existed. We're taking one step at a time.

As for the stacking, something that sounds simple like stacking limits can actually be a huge task to change. The interface and AI chnages required would be substantial. Sometimes I envy boardgames because if you can think up the rule and write it down, it can be changed in a minute. Not so with computer games.





Is the list you've provided indicative of the order you believe these games will be produced?

Thanks and regards,
ID

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 1:56:48 AM   
Maximeba

 

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quote:

This brings me to the same question again, why War in the East is not using units stacking rule like it is in Europa...why War in the East has 3 units (no matter what kind of size of units) stacking rule?!


I do not understand yopur complaint about stacking. The Europa series allowed 3 division, 3 non divisons and 2 artillery in a 17 mile hex. In Wite you have 1 corp which equals 3 divisions, you can attach 3 su's to a corp. which would equal 3 non divisoins and you can get up to 3 artillery plus an additional su's from hq's and reserves. All of this in a 10 mile hex. It seems to me you are getting much more bang for your buck in Wite than you ever did in Europa's Fire in the East.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 2:46:36 AM   
Michael T


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Europa is 10 miles per hex. Same as WITE.

In Europa you don't have Soviet Inf Corp. Only Inf divisions.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 4:09:36 AM   
Dili

 

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War in the Med 1941-1943?! War in the Med started in 10 June 1940.

Are we again to go in a Germanophile game?

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 4:52:39 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

War in the Med 1941-1943?! War in the Med started in 10 June 1940.

warspite1

+1 Why would any serious War In The Med game start in 1941?


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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 4:55:13 AM   
Ketza


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1940 would be an interesting time for sure. Potential battles between the French and Italian navies for one thing.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 5:23:47 AM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

War in the Med 1941-1943?! War in the Med started in 10 June 1940.

warspite1

+1 Why would any serious War In The Med game start in 1941?



I would assume that the 1940 game would cover the initial Med battles, while the 1941 - 43 would cover the battles in NA that the 1940 would not.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 7:55:41 AM   
Joel Billings


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Yes, IIRC the WitW 40 game was going to include a large portion of the Med (haven't thought about it for awhile as we've been focused on WitW 43-45). The exact schedule is not set, but we think WitE 2.0 will probably begin development after WitW 43-45.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 10:47:39 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Europa was 16 miles per hex according to the rulebook for Fire in the East that I just double checked. :)

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 11:33:04 AM   
Michael T


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Yes it is 16 miles. Somehow I was thinking of 16 km, which is 10 miles. So WITW will be at a much better scale than Europa's Second Front



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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 11:41:45 AM   
821Bobo


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Actually why for the map in WitE is used imperial and not metric system?

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 12:15:03 PM   
dazoline II


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Will the battle of the Atlantic be modeled once the expanded naval game is included, at least on the European side?
Will the Murmansk runs be included once WITE 2 is made?

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 6:38:10 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maximeba

I thought I read somewhere that 2by3 now has all the maps to Europe and Africa. So I was wondering are they going to put out other games? I was a GDW junkie. What was so great about GDW was they had giant games like Fire in the East and Second Front to smaller ones like Case White (Poland), Their Finest Hour (France), Norway, and the Balkan Front and medium sized games like War in the Desert. What was great about these games is they all used the same game mechanics, so if you were familiar with one game you knew the basic game mechanics of all their games.

I've read 2by3 is working on a game for the West but have they thought about creating other games like smaller ones like Case White, or medium ones like War in the Desert? I would definately be in the front of the line to buy them.

I don't know if 2by3 ever thought about this, but GDW used to offer a discount if you bought the game before it was completely designed, this helped the company with the cost of developing the game and kept cash flow coming into the company.

GDW had a cult following and was a trusted company by the followers of the compnany. In my short experience with this game, the gaming community and the responses by the 2by3 on this site, it seems to me that 2by3 has the same great qualities that GDW had. I know I feel comfortable with 2by3 and would be willing to pay for games in advance, knowing they will come out a couple months later, and feel others may too.


Yeah GDW were great games but man the physical handling of those counter stacks was a real pain.



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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 6:55:39 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Yes, IIRC the WitW 40 game was going to include a large portion of the Med (haven't thought about it for awhile as we've been focused on WitW 43-45). The exact schedule is not set, but we think WitE 2.0 will probably begin development after WitW 43-45.
warspite1

But just out of curiosity, why would the Med game (as opposed to the more general War In The West) not start when the Med war began?


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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 7:20:37 PM   
morvael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

War in the West 43-45
War in the East 2.0
War in the West 1940
War in the Med 1941-43



Where is War in the Center 1939? :-) Seriously, a 5-turn scenario could be fun addition to the 1940 game. I volunteer to do it.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/7/2013 10:25:31 PM   
Numdydar

 

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I would assume that if they got all the games on this list done and they sold well, the '39 piece would be rolled into the full ETO game. Which would be either a seperate game which used major parts of all the rest or some kind of master program that would require you have all the games and linked them all up into a continous game somehow .

Starting in May '40 creates a much simpler development effort since, the Norway invasion would not need to be modeled. Just look how long it took Paradox to get the Norway invasion to work for the AI in HoI III lol. So I have no issue with 2by3's desire to avoid that until they have to

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/8/2013 1:40:40 AM   
Maximeba

 

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quote:

Yeah GDW were great games but man the physical handling of those counter stacks was a real pain.


Rich Valey , (who was the rules guru) at one of the conventions in Columbus brought a 6 or 8 inch tweezer that was bent on a jig to pick up entire stacks of units. He was kind enough to make a couple for us and they were the Cats Meow.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/8/2013 4:45:17 AM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maximeba

quote:

Yeah GDW were great games but man the physical handling of those counter stacks was a real pain.


Rich Valey , (who was the rules guru) at one of the conventions in Columbus brought a 6 or 8 inch tweezer that was bent on a jig to pick up entire stacks of units. He was kind enough to make a couple for us and they were the Cats Meow.


Nice ! But like a dummy I had laid the thin stock maps out on a carpeted floor and the creases would natually lift up. Even a small amount of that little crease added endless frustration. I got a little smarter when playing Case White with a friend and we laid 3/4"ply across his pool table and then taped the maps down on the ply. Much Much better. I never did clip those counter nubs which made things worse.

Still the stacks were a distraction.

I own a copy in shrink wrap, (original) of DAK2 and I've been told that the system really keeps the counters and stacks in a manageable control. I'm looking forward to someday playing that one.



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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/8/2013 1:31:45 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Every good Europa player had a set of medical tweezers which come already bent. They weren't that much money but worth their weight in gold during the big campaigns. I still have a few laying around along with all of the GDW Europa games except for Fall of France. Never could find that one.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/8/2013 2:08:30 PM   
Ketza


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I still remember the countless hours clipping the counters of all those great games. Stacks and stacks of trays with counters in my game room.

We played FITE with time limits of 30 minutes for moves and 15 minutes for combat. The pressure was always intense and last minute shove fests resulted in countless mistakes on both sides. I once got 2 Panzer armies out of supply when my trucks were overrun by a bypassed ant.

Good times but I cant see myself ever playing with counters again thanks to games like WITE.

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/8/2013 7:36:48 PM   
Treale


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I had a large piece of plexi-glass that I laid over the maps. Worked very well!!! Ah, the good old days .

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RE: remarks and questions for 2by3 - 6/9/2013 4:03:17 AM   
rmonical

 

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quote:

I do not understand your complaint about stacking. The Europa series allowed 3 division, 3 non divisions and 2 artillery in a 17 mile hex.


I think it is the HQ/fort/airbase shuffling. For example, if you want to breakdown or reassemble a division, the hex cannot have any other units. Usually a pain, sometimes it effects the action.

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