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RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 2/25/2014 9:11:43 AM   
Von Weber


Posts: 180
Joined: 11/30/2012
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Ok, you calmed me down. But I still don't understand how it can happen, Iplay for US. Japan is at war with China and US of course.From my test play, where I played head to head for both sides I used to know:
1. Spoilage can be mostly totally neglected. Building and expanding facilities, japan's side may reach totally 10 of port and aircrafield levels in every port in Metropoly as in Palau,Truck, Kawajalane. Lower than 1000 fuel has no spoilage according to the rules. Supplies
in amount of 8000 will not suffer spoilage if the island or Atoll has no troops.
2. Japan each turn produce 3750 fuel( I have 1 day turn)and 15500 supplies. And I have not seen any resources or oil stockpiles decreasing.
3.I put all production in halt, but nevertheless support and combat engeniers as some other guys came to pool. Aircraft like Sopwith were arriving to pool too. Tanks and guns really stopped coming.
4. At the first turn Japan has about 4,620 mln fuel at all her bases and aprox. 2,820 mln supplies. Adding captured supply from China and Philippines + China production. There should be never problem with supply at allTaking in account that there is no heavy fightings every day. After expanding facilities it will steadily grow. Basicly I see no sense fighting in China, only for Victory points.

So if the war lasts for 1670 days aprox. My opponent have to consume more than 6516 fuel a day to run out from supply in late war. Refueling BC Akagi at totally empty tanks will cost 6200 fuel. Its consumption a day at mission speed will be 318 fuel.
Or another comparision with AP Astuga Maru. Totally refueled 1000 fuel. Consumption a day on mission speed only 9 fuel. I'm afraid that after capturing Philippines my opponent has no sense to run across the seas. Managing all his supply and logistic issues in first 3 month of war he will sit and wait, sending only subs ahead and scout vessels. In this case my opponent will never run of fuel at all.
So I have come to disappointing conclusions. There is no economic reasons fo Japan to start war. It is all far from reality. I wish to be mistaken in my facts, arguments and calculations.
But all I have is numbers, everyone can see

The last one: I hope that turned completely off production, I mean not in options, but in the game halt mode has some effect too. But there is no a word about it in manual.
I play a bit moded campaign, edited Superdreadnought campaign by my opponent but he changed only a bit a little Japan's shipbuilding program and I hope nothing else, my test run out from the edited campaign, not general campaigns from developers.
So waiting for your comments Connfire.



< Message edited by Von Weber -- 2/25/2014 10:15:08 AM >

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 61
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 2/27/2014 8:26:42 AM   
Von Weber


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Hi!
I checked out and corrected, only 4,1 mln fuel at start of the campaign not 4,62. It is in all Superdreadnought campaigns such situation. So my oppponent is not a cheater. So everyday fuel consumption for the Japan fleet should be 6205 fuel a day, refueling BC Akagi costs 6200 fuel.
Where can I get info about Japan's production. Manual gives nothing. Does it come from War in the Pacific Struggle against Japan? What merchant and shipyards basicly do?


< Message edited by Von Weber -- 2/27/2014 9:32:50 AM >

(in reply to Von Weber)
Post #: 62
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 2/27/2014 4:47:10 PM   
Von Weber


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I've discovered one thing yet production has the same build rate regardless if it is in halt or restart mode. It is always be the same.

Manual says: A base may transfer supplies, oil, and resources to an adjacent base regardless of the terrain the
separates the two hexes (allows inland sea movement of resources and oil). Have you seen that fuel and oil could be moved between two bases across the sea(between 2 islands for example)

(in reply to Von Weber)
Post #: 63
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 2/28/2014 8:26:46 AM   
Von Weber


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What is the best ASW guard for battleships? DD in the same TF with Battleships or DD group in the same hexe with Battleships?
Is it possible to transfer WPO Data to Witp AE editor and run campaign under AE engine?

At least I've got it only now I have discovered that all default campaigns in WPO and edited campaign I'm playing now are all without production. When I set in editor production in on position and saved a new scenario, situation changed in wonderfull way, new options in the game and ofcourse more fun to play. Now Japanese have to think how and more important where to move their ass

(in reply to Von Weber)
Post #: 64
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 3/1/2014 7:42:20 PM   
Von Weber


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One more question, but not the last one. How does future objective for combat units actually work? Do they gain experience and how it can be treated in the best way?

(in reply to Von Weber)
Post #: 65
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 3/9/2014 3:27:14 AM   
Connfire


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OK, lots of questions. This is what I get for not showing up for a week or so.

Regarding production - the best answer I can give for most of your questions is I simply don't know. WPO was intended as a more streamlined version of the original WitP. The original game had a very detailed, and what some felt was very cumbersome, resource and production model. This is why you see aircraft engines and other stuff which have nothing to do with the game represented. WPO automated a lot of this. This results in some confusion in the manual, as well as buttons that do nothing in the game. In some cases you may have some limited control over what you can do, I just never took the time to see what works and what doesn't. I did always feel it silly that in 1929 the Japanese are still producing obsolete aircraft like the 1917 Sopwith Camel as opposed to cranking out more of the latest models. Same holds true for certain artillery - they'll have massive stockpiles of one but never enough of another. A limited amount of production management would have been welcome.

You are also way ahead of anything I've ever done as far as calculating daily allotment of fuel, etc. All I can fall back upon is the experiences I've had that Japan does run low in the late game if they're suffering from lack of oil resources or merchant shipping losses. I can't rule out some tweaking to fuel production wasn't done when WPO spun off from WitP - I just don't know. One mystery I never solved was what happens when you capture a base which produces oil resources? The (reduced) resource level is added to your overall tally, along with other things like industry, manpower, etc. Does the base slowly generate resources to pick up later? If so I never noticed it. Does the base move resources to a centralized location where it is combined with other bases' resources for transport to Tokyo? Or does it just automatically provide more oil resources for the Tokyo refineries? Again, I never delved deep enough to fully answer that question.

I'm not sure about moving fuel between islands, but I do note that at least on the Home Islands Japan seems to achieve some sort of equilibrium. If my fleet empties Hiroshima of fuel, I'll notice a spike of fuel in Tokyo shortly after. Not long after that, the fuel level in Tokyo will lower and that in Hiroshima will rise - so I know fuel is moving around on the Home Islands. The temporary spike is probably because oil is refined into fuel in Tokyo, and they're probably dipping into their reserves.

For me, ASW protection depends on how big the TF that is being protected, as well as mission, risk factors, etc. How many BBs and other large ships do you want in the TF? I have actually created 25-BB TFs for special missions before. Any remaining slots in the 25-ship limit I usually fill with DDs. If I'm playing Japanese in the late game, usually I'll use the later model DDs with good AA protection. If I'm not satisfied with the ASW protection in the TF, I may set a separate ASW TF to follow my high-value TF (or sometimes the opposite, have the high value TF follow the ASW TF). Or I'll create an Escort TF to follow as above. From what I've seen, the ASW TFs tend to be a bit more aggressive in their sub hunting, though the Escort TFs tend to provide more protection to the high-value TFs. There are no fool-proof ways of doing it, though. There's always a risk that one sub will pull a Gunther Prien and get a lucky hit on your favorite BB!

(in reply to Von Weber)
Post #: 66
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 3/9/2014 10:56:50 AM   
Von Weber


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OK, thanks Connfire. Anyway I have finished already my game for the Allies with "off" mode production. Now gonna try production "on" settings, I'm curious what happen then if production is turned on for both sides.By the way all stock campaigns are with off production.


(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 67
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 4/23/2014 2:10:35 AM   
Connfire


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From amandkm's thread in the Scenario Design Section:

quote:

how do I set my land based air to do searches?


Click the air unit. Under "Group Mission" in the upper right side of the box, click "Naval Search".

quote:

are the various "A" ships limited in what types of cargo they can carry?


Yes. Their cargo capacity can be seen if you click the individual ship. Or if you click the task force you can see all of your ships' under "Cap". For AKs a supply or resource point = 1 cargo cap, for TKs a fuel or oil point - 1 cargo cap. For AKs carrying fuel, 1 fuel point = 2 cap. For carrying troops, the formula is a bit different - click the ground unit to see how much capacity it will need for APs and AKs - APs are on a 1:1 ratio while AKs are significantly higher. Most ground units require multiple APs or AKs to carry them.

quote:

Can I set supply replenishment to a 'minister' control and have the computer do it until I am more comfortable?


I think you're referring to Auto-Convoy. This can be done at Mare Island and Karachi. Refer to page 145 in the rulebook for a full explanation on how that works.

(in reply to Von Weber)
Post #: 68
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 4/24/2014 1:57:34 AM   
amandkm

 

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Thanks. I am having some trouble loading fuel to some AKs I have in port. I'll try again and see what I get.

I made the mistake of not sending resupply out right away and now Hong Kong is out of gas!

OK figured this out. I didnt have a destination set on the AKs so they were loading and then unloading right away- I set Taytay as destination and all is well there.

< Message edited by amandkm -- 4/24/2014 3:06:47 AM >

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 69
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 4/24/2014 6:58:39 AM   
Connfire


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From: Connecticut, USA
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TKs or AOs are always the preferred method of loading fuel - they do so on a 1:1 ratio. If you're assembling a transport TF with multiple items - land units, supply, and/or fuel - I find it is helpful to assign a TF for each resource and land unit, and click the "Do Not Unload" box for each TF. Then once they are done loading assemble the TFs as a single large one, and assign them their escorts and destination. Just remember to unclick the Do Not Unload button once they start moving!

< Message edited by Connfire -- 4/24/2014 7:59:34 AM >

(in reply to amandkm)
Post #: 70
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 4/24/2014 10:59:21 AM   
amandkm

 

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Thanks! I did notice that, relative to what I can move, my patrolling TFs seem drink everything in sight immediately! Is it normal to keep a lot of ships at home due to fuel restrictions?

I finished my first game, the Jutland scenario, and was astounded to see that in addition to the 4BCs and two BBs I had encountered, the Japanese had something like 10 BB in port that I had never seen! Was that due to fuel, poor AI, or some other factor?

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 71
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 4/24/2014 2:44:44 PM   
Connfire


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From: Connecticut, USA
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quote:

Is it normal to keep a lot of ships at home due to fuel restrictions?


I haven't played Pacific Jutland, but I know in the grand campaigns the USA has nearly unlimited fuel supplies. The challenge is to get them to your forward bases - including Pearl Harbor - in sufficient quantities to supply your fleet. One of Japan's challenges, of course, is to prevent that from happening. The UK has a fairly decent fuel source at Karachi. But all forward bases, dominions, and colonies, including Australia and New Zealand, have to have theirs shipped in.

Japan is a different story entirely. They have massive stores, but once you blow through that you have to replenish it with either fuel captured through conquest, or with oil which is shipped through Auto-Convoy system to Japan to be refined into oil.

quote:

I finished my first game, the Jutland scenario, and was astounded to see that in addition to the 4BCs and two BBs I had encountered, the Japanese had something like 10 BB in port that I had never seen! Was that due to fuel, poor AI, or some other factor?


<Sigh> I wish I could say more good things about the WPO AI but the fact is it's pretty lousy. Every now and then it will surprise you, but overall it's not that good. Ironically, the scenario where it is best is probably the one you are considering next, Clash of the Titans. Like Pacific Jutland it is on a mini-map. Both sides have clear objectives, and the action starts almost immediately.

I'd play against the AI to familiarize yourself with the rules, etc. You might also want to give Japan a try vs. the AI to get the full game experience. After that, I'd graduate to PBEM for a much richer, more satisfying experience. I wouldn't worry about getting pounded because you are a new player, there are other new ones out there too, and often "house rules" are set up to balance things out between the players.

(in reply to amandkm)
Post #: 72
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 4/25/2014 3:08:03 AM   
amandkm

 

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Yeah, I'm trying clash of titans and noticed more clearly something I'd seen in the first game. Once I send a task force out, it immediately returns to base once it reaches its objective. Is there a way to order it to patrol?

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 73
RE: Ask WPO Questions Here - 4/25/2014 3:46:38 AM   
Connfire


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From: Connecticut, USA
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On the task force window, under the graphic showing what kind of a TF it is (surface combat, transport, etc), click "Retirement Allowed". It should switch to "Patrol/Do not Retire". That will keep the TF from returning to base. Note if the TF is attacked, it may retire anyway if it is non-combat TF, like transport, escort, etc. If it is a combat TF it should remain in place unless its fuel or ammunition gets too low.

Anything that is in yellow text in the windows you open can be clicked and changed.

(in reply to amandkm)
Post #: 74
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