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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Command Ops Series >> Mods and Scenarios >> Supply/resupply questions

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Supply/resupply questions - 5/29/2013 8:24:33 PM

TMO

Posts: 251
Joined: 4/12/2003
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

A number of questions regarding supply:

1) In the manual it states that if a base is forced to retreat it automatically loses half of its stocks and even more if the remainder can't be transported given the current availability of transport. What is the situation regarding a voluntary move assuming there is enough transport?

2) If an air-supplied (or any other) SEP is not scheduled to receive supplies on a particular day are the ones previously received still stockpiled and thus available for collection?

3) How do you set initial stock levels for bases? According to Frank Steer, 'Arnhem the fight to sustain, p.52, 1st Airborne Div took in 48 hours' supplies, how do I set this?

From Frank Steer (1), David Bennett, Magnificent Disaster: The failure of MG (2) and Martin Middlebrook, Arnhem 1944 (3) here's what appears to be the historical supply schedule for 1st Airborne:

D+1, 21t landed by three Hamilcars at DZ'X', 14t collected (only two could be unloaded) (1, 3); 85.7t air-dropped by 33 Stirlings (1,3) (12t collected, LZ'L') (1,2). 2 states latter collected from dedicated DZ north of Oosterbeek (could be SDP'V' but probably LZ'L' - see later post).

D+2, 389t (1), 390t (2) dropped at SDP'V', 21t (1), 31t (2) recovered. 3 p269 states 101 Stirlings and 63 Dakotas.

D+3, 386t (2) dropped, 135t collected (reference refers to change of DZ but does not specify where; (1) info very vague). 100 Stirlings and 64 Dakotas 3 p391 which also states:

quote:

The location of the new dropping point requested by 1st Airborne had reached England;it was a road junction 200 yds west of the Hartenstein. But the planners only sent 131 aircraft to that place; the remainder, 33 Stilings, were sent to LZ'Z'.

Given a Stirling could carry 2.64t of supplies and a Dakota 1.97t this would equate to 303t dropped at the new DZ and 87t at LZ'Z'.

D+4, 64 Stirling and 53 Dakota drop supplies on Hartenstein itself after message from Oosterbeek. Equates to 273t dropped (3). 2 states 11t collected.

D+5, No resupply (1,2).

D+6, 73 Stirlings and 50 Dakotas (245t) 3. 291.7t dropped, 7t collected (1). Hartenstein DZ?

D+7, No resupply (1,2)

D+8, 2.8t dropped, zero collected (1).

Source 1 estimates that an additional 100t fell in unit lines and was collected but admits to having no hard figures to support this estimation.

Regards

Tim

< Message edited by TMO -- 5/30/2013 8:49:32 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 5/30/2013 8:14:05 AM

phoenix

Posts: 1984
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline

Interesting, Tim. Thanks.

Don't know answer to all of that, at all. You can set drop zones and supply levels in the Scenmaker, easily enough. You could easily add a DZ north of Osterbeek, for example. You can up the supply levels in the 'Side' tab, under 'Supply Schedule'. For Maas-Rein it seems to be set to 60% for the first 3 days, rising to 80% for a bit after that, in the stock scenario.

To change the allocation to individual units is, I think, a bit more fiddly. So far I've only done it by clicking each unit I want to beef up (in the Scenmaker) and allocating its supply in the unit dialogue. You can go up to 200%, which will give you very satisfying initial supply levels. You can do this, individually, for ammo, fuel and basics, under the supply drop down. You can also alter the % of estab up to 200%, if you really want to make super-companies. Probably you know all this though. I don't know how any of these percentages would convert into tonnes etc. Someone else might.

I'm very interested in DZ info. I would really like to know where the exact location of the DZ nth of Osterbeek was (to put it in).

(in reply to TMO)

Post #: 2

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 5/30/2013 2:17:00 PM

TMO

Posts: 251
Joined: 4/12/2003
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Hi Phoenix

LZ'L' is to the north of Oosterbeek, so I now suspect this is what source 2 is referring to for the D+1 drop. LZ'L' also confirmed by Middlebrook p235.

Regards

Tim

< Message edited by TMO -- 5/30/2013 6:45:04 PM >

(in reply to phoenix)

Post #: 3

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 5/30/2013 8:49:21 PM

TMO

Posts: 251
Joined: 4/12/2003
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Updated my first post.

Regards

Tim

(in reply to TMO)

Post #: 4

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 5/30/2013 9:32:29 PM

phoenix

Posts: 1984
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline

Fascinating. That's a drop into the Osterbeek perim, more or less where KG Krafft starts out (on D1) in the game. But on D3, right? Can easily change the scenario in the Scenmaker to put that zone in, but it won't help anyone at Arnhem Highway bridge, I suspect. Nice info, TMO. When I've set up alternate SEPs so far I've assumed that they wouldn't drop into built up areas, but that's more or less into a town, in fact.

(in reply to TMO)

Post #: 5

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 5/30/2013 10:57:43 PM

TMO

Posts: 251
Joined: 4/12/2003
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Not D3 but D+3 (i.e. D4). Hartenstein is on the western edge of Oosterbeek. If you look at the map there is some clear ground about 200 yds west.

The above supply schedule is what actually happened, but to mimic the original plan of going for the bridge then SDP'V' (as was originally planned) should be the main DZ for supplies. What would be nice would be to be able to alter an SEP location during the course of a game, however this alteration must take into account the poor communications 1 Airborne suffered and so have a great deal of uncertainty surrounding it.

Regards

Tim

(in reply to phoenix)

Post #: 6

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 6/5/2013 9:44:22 AM

Bobbyb1

Posts: 28
Joined: 4/16/2003
Status: offline

Does anyone know the answer to the first question TMO asked re voluntary versus involuntary moves of the supply base?

And what level of disruption is caused by moving it? How long (once it is stopped again) before a supply base is able to actually start supplying again?

In a sort of similar (and I hope not thread-hijacking) vane, what if any impact is there on a subordinate unit if you kill off it's parent unit? E.g. if I were to kill a battalion HQ then is there any impact on the stat's/fighting ability of the attached companies?

(in reply to TMO)

Post #: 7

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 6/5/2013 2:32:18 PM

Arjuna

Posts: 17794
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: online

There is no culling for a voluntary move.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Bobbyb1)

Post #: 8

RE: Supply/resupply questions - 6/13/2013 7:05:01 PM

navwarcol

Posts: 638
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbyb1

Does anyone know the answer to the first question TMO asked re voluntary versus involuntary moves of the supply base?

And what level of disruption is caused by moving it? How long (once it is stopped again) before a supply base is able to actually start supplying again?

In a sort of similar (and I hope not thread-hijacking) vane, what if any impact is there on a subordinate unit if you kill off it's parent unit? E.g. if I were to kill a battalion HQ then is there any impact on the stat's/fighting ability of the attached companies?

I am curious about these questions also.. how long before ability to supply is restored for a voluntary (or even involuntary)move.. I have tested this a few times, and did not get any set 'rule' in my tests, with time varying quite a bit.
And the question of a destroyed HQ, is an interesting one as well. Generally these are my primary targets based on their rl value, but I am curious if it has a game effect comparable to real life.

(in reply to Bobbyb1)

Post #: 9