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Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES

 
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Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 6:50:56 AM   
mantrain

 

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I was playing the campaign until late December when my computer crashed. I need to start another game so I thought of GC until I can retrieve the old saved game. I am a little disoriented on this scenario. Should I just start amphibing the island? I guess I am just not sure what to do exactly. maybe someone can give me an idea how to approach this as allies..
as far as air support, is it all going to come from CV until I can build a air base? Looks like louganville is too far away. What am I really trying to accomplish here? just taking the island and keeping it? thanks!
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 8:26:43 AM   
Alfred

 

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Read this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2359112&mpage=1&key=guadalcanal%2Cstrategy�

Alfred

(in reply to mantrain)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 5:25:47 PM   
mantrain

 

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thanks.As a Noob, a basic question I have is, how do you
-- get the engineers to build/do the things you want?
-- how do you provide the support your troops need?
I want to make sure there are toilets built; runway strip is nice and smooth; troops build proper fortifications,trenches where they need to, and so forth..

(in reply to Alfred)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 6:20:45 PM   
HexHead

 

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OK, background: you aren't supposed to be able to solve all your problems. I know for sure this applies to the General Campaign and, having played Guad into November 42, it applies to the scenario.

You will be short of something, somewhere. This is not like me being mindless and playing Paradox's WW2 game with my beloved Real US Industrial Capacity Mod, otherwise known as BWAHAHA, it's clobberin' time.

Just keep that in mind - you need to prioritize and compromise.

Your Qs:

* Put ENGs in Combat/Defend. Leave them like that. If anyone else wants to make a suggestion, chime in, but that's how they work, literally. They might benefit from Rest/Train once they're 100% Objective, but other than Move or Strat (moving), leave 'em in Combat.

* Click on and examine the LCU's screen. There are Base Forces, Engineers, Combat Engineers, Aviation Support, Naval Support - HQs provide Support, also. The screen will spell out & specify Support (in general), Aviation Support, Motorized Support, etc, & how much. Mouseovers on the LCU symbols tell you how much, also.

* Combat LCUs (infantry, armor, artillery, AA, coastal guns) tend to have some modest Support integrated into it, also.

* Each Base's Info screen specifies how much Support (in general) and Aviation Support is required there & how much is present.

Now, I have a bit of homework for you - PM me and tell me what kind of unit provides Torpedoes, 20 at a time. It ain't obvious, but it's one of the types I have mentioned here (not a Combat unit, though).

HH

< Message edited by HexHead -- 5/27/2013 6:45:24 PM >


_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to mantrain)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 6:44:53 PM   
Shellshock


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

This is not like me being mindless and playing Paradox's WW2 game with my beloved Real US Industrial Capacity Mod, otherwise known as BWAHAHA, it's clobberin' time.



It's funny. The few times I've tried played Paradox's "WW2 game", I noticed the AI Japan gets routed by a vast Chinese host in the 1930s, hightails it back to the Home Islands (sometimes handing over Korea in the process) and it's pretty much game over for Japan at that point. Maybe they've balanced things out since then, but it seemed pretty ahistorical.

(in reply to HexHead)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 8:03:28 PM   
mantrain

 

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Hex, PM not working right now. My regular computer is in da shop. Not sure why but I get a error message when I attempt to pm.
anyways, we're all among friends here, so let's talk about that unit that can discharge 20 torpedoes at a time. IT would have to be a destroyer, or light cruiser, or modification thereof.

edit -- not a combat unit.... hmmm

yes, need to do some homework. but if any unit discharges a weapon (torpedo) I would think by definition it is a combat unit.

< Message edited by mantrain -- 5/27/2013 8:10:08 PM >

(in reply to Shellshock)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 8:12:19 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock
It's funny. The few times I've tried played Paradox's "WW2 game", I noticed the AI Japan gets routed by a vast Chinese host in the 1930s, hightails it back to the Home Islands (sometimes handing over Korea in the process) and it's pretty much game over for Japan at that point. Maybe they've balanced things out since then, but it seemed pretty ahistorical.



Heh, here you have the opposite. Japan run amok in China usually capturing it before 42 is up!

(in reply to Shellshock)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 8:18:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

Now, I have a bit of homework for you - PM me and tell me what kind of unit provides Torpedoes, 20 at a time. It ain't obvious, but it's one of the types I have mentioned here (not a Combat unit, though).

HH


I think I know what you're trying to get at, but you should re-check what this mechanic does. It's supply-control related, not disbursing so far as I understand. And not limited to 20.

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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 8:31:54 PM   
HexHead

 

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Well, I was trying to be polite and not be a smart---, just encouraging our colleague to find something out - I don't care if mantrain PMs me or not, but in ascertaining the info, he'll start to see what the screens are telling him & the system to the UI.

At first, the UI can be a bit daunting - and I dissect UIs for a living. There's a degree of 'unclarity', maybe a few things I would've displayed differently or written differently, but if you're patient and work with it, you start to see the logic and the design.

It's not easy to see how to work with units en masse - after awhile, though, you can see how to do so. I could go on about the UI, there are definitely things I think could've been improved or clarified, but, on the whole, not bad. A bit challenging when you first work with it.

No, not trying to be snarky - if mantrain figures out how to replenish torps, he'll be on his way to Comfort Level II.

ADDENDUM

Don't quite understand the distinction you're making re supply/disburse. If they're there, the recipient can draw 'em, right? PM or start a thread - mebbe I will. I do understand the '20 at a time' mech.

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 9
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 8:39:00 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

ADDENDUM

Don't quite understand the distinction you're making re supply/disburse. If they're there, the recipient can draw 'em, right? PM or start a thread - mebbe I will. I do understand the '20 at a time' mech.


As far as I know there is no limit to how many torpedoes an Air HQ can disburse per turn. The control is there so the player can control how much base supply is invested in standing torpedo inventory. I think it's 10 supply per fish, but I'd have to check. That it starts universally at 0 is a valid UI quibble IMO.

Also, if you hit the "Show unit TOE" button on an Air HQ you will see the torpedo inventory line turn yellow, indicating a hotpoint. You can type in a number, even three figures, which the HQ will seek to always have on hand. Saves countless +10 click cycles on the front-end UI for the Air HQ torpedo stocks.

I believe that was in a patch, and a lot of players don't know it's there.

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The Moose

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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 9:26:14 PM   
mantrain

 

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Let me back up a little here. I know I had this discussion before, and Al got pissed, but in your opinions, is all the info I need in the manual? Let's say I do nothing else but study the manual. Will all my questions be able to get answered there? Bc somethimes I feel that the manual does not provide procedural info very well. IE, how do I make an engineer build an airfield? that sort of thing.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 9:39:53 PM   
HexHead

 

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The manual is somewhat superannuated - out of date. It's a good foundation (hey, I've really only read it once, but then, I'm used to dissecting & explaining programs).

On some of the other subforums there is a wealth of information. I've had the game about three or four years - played it some, knew the basics, even played some PBEM, but really knew little more than you do right now. Just playing, making mistakes, relaunching - it's all learning.

Read the AAR "The Power of Inexperience" (GreyJoy (Allies) vs Rader (IJ)) - I found it instructive. GreyJoy's English is unique, shall we say, and the AAR is funny, but I definitely learned quite a bit reading it. Bullwinkle has one right now I'm following, too, a good one.

The forums & AARs supplement the manual's knowledge base.

And don't worry about mistakes and defeats - we've all had them. Most of my specific learning is usually of the "How come this didn't work?" variety. I figure it out, ask Qs here, or even read the manual again.


HOW TO BUILD ANYTHING AT A BASE

Base Info screen has three choices in Upper RH: Expand AF, Expand Port, Build Fortifications.

Click the one you want. I don't know if ENGs are mandatory, but if not, any progress without 'em is glacial. Have your ENGs on Combat, as mentioned.

< Message edited by HexHead -- 5/27/2013 9:43:35 PM >


_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 12
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 9:41:27 PM   
HexHead

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

ADDENDUM

Don't quite understand the distinction you're making re supply/disburse. If they're there, the recipient can draw 'em, right? PM or start a thread - mebbe I will. I do understand the '20 at a time' mech.


As far as I know there is no limit to how many torpedoes an Air HQ can disburse per turn. The control is there so the player can control how much base supply is invested in standing torpedo inventory. I think it's 10 supply per fish, but I'd have to check. That it starts universally at 0 is a valid UI quibble IMO.

Also, if you hit the "Show unit TOE" button on an Air HQ you will see the torpedo inventory line turn yellow, indicating a hotpoint. You can type in a number, even three figures, which the HQ will seek to always have on hand. Saves countless +10 click cycles on the front-end UI for the Air HQ torpedo stocks.

I believe that was in a patch, and a lot of players don't know it's there.


Well, whaddaya know. Thank you, very much.

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 13
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 9:51:15 PM   
HexHead

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

This is not like me being mindless and playing Paradox's WW2 game with my beloved Real US Industrial Capacity Mod, otherwise known as BWAHAHA, it's clobberin' time.



It's funny. The few times I've tried played Paradox's "WW2 game", I noticed the AI Japan gets routed by a vast Chinese host in the 1930s, hightails it back to the Home Islands (sometimes handing over Korea in the process) and it's pretty much game over for Japan at that point. Maybe they've balanced things out since then, but it seemed pretty ahistorical.



The "2" was OK - after a while, it's kinda mindless - you really hafta tweak it to get a challenge, although some mods make Barbarossa a good run Fun, though, I like it - especially as the US with Real US IC slapped on - 950 IC! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to Shellshock)
Post #: 14
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/27/2013 11:43:34 PM   
mantrain

 

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as far as island sizes, like guadalcanal, which is not listed in the appendix p.288 because it was not an island on Dec 7, how do we know th island size and therefore limits of troop placement? I am presuming that Guadalcanal is near in size to Tulagi which is listed in the appendix and therefore is "large." but otherwise, how do we know?

(in reply to HexHead)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 12:40:55 AM   
Quixote


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quote:

as far as island sizes, like guadalcanal, which is not listed in the appendix p.288 because it was not an island on Dec 7, how do we know th island size and therefore limits of troop placement? I am presuming that Guadalcanal is near in size to Tulagi which is listed in the appendix and therefore is "large." but otherwise, how do we know?



Pretty sure Guadalcanal was still an island on December 7th. (It wasn't a base yet, though.) In answer to your question, you can use the Editor, or just pull the base up. Both island size and troop limits are listed. Note that many of the good sized islands won't have a limit.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to mantrain)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 12:43:45 AM   
HexHead

 

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It's on the Base Info screen - in this case, it is unlimited, which, IIRC, is the case for every non-Atoll hex.

Hmmm...from Quixote's s/shot above, it looks like I might be mistaken about all non-Atolls - nonetheless, the Base screen has the lowdown.

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to mantrain)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 12:46:28 AM   
Bo Rearguard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

as far as island sizes, like guadalcanal, which is not listed in the appendix p.288 because it was not an island on Dec 7, how do we know th island size and therefore limits of troop placement? I am presuming that Guadalcanal is near in size to Tulagi which is listed in the appendix and therefore is "large." but otherwise, how do we know?


For the purposes of the game, Guadalcanal is just a large land mass with two bases on it (Lunga and Tassafaronga) which have unlimited stacking.

(in reply to mantrain)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 12:55:24 AM   
HexHead

 

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Also, mousing over the Base tells you about such limits (and a lot of other info, too).

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)
Post #: 19
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 1:03:15 AM   
HexHead

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Hex, PM not working right now. My regular computer is in da shop. Not sure why but I get a error message when I attempt to pm.
anyways, we're all among friends here, so let's talk about that unit that can discharge 20 torpedoes at a time. IT would have to be a destroyer, or light cruiser, or modification thereof.

edit -- not a combat unit.... hmmm

yes, need to do some homework. but if any unit discharges a weapon (torpedo) I would think by definition it is a combat unit.


OK, I muddied the waters here. Here's what I was trying to get you to discover.

Unless I'm horridly wrong, Air HQs are the sole source of torpedoes for air units (Catalinas, for instance) and most others (not subs, tho, IIRC - hafta to make sure where subs get torps - b'leev an AS will do or a big enuff Port).

Why this is so, I have no idea. Not Naval HQs - Air HQs. I have a suspicion why this is, but it is nugatory, really.

***

Oh - 'combat unit' - mostly I was talking Land units above (i. e., LCUs). I regard Inf, Arty, Armd, etc., as 'Combat'. ENGS, HQs. etc., not.

Some Auxilary vessels have guns - I don't think most players think of these as Combat units. Carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, subs & their kind - Combat.

Almost all Air units are Combat, except for Transports and maybe dedicated Recon and some of the Search types, perhaps.

I use this as my own terminology, BTW, altho many here might think of it congruently.

< Message edited by HexHead -- 5/28/2013 1:06:33 AM >


_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to mantrain)
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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 1:29:03 AM   
Will_L

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Also, if you hit the "Show unit TOE" button on an Air HQ you will see the torpedo inventory line turn yellow, indicating a hotpoint. You can type in a number, even three figures, which the HQ will seek to always have on hand. Saves countless +10 click cycles on the front-end UI for the Air HQ torpedo stocks.
I believe that was in a patch, and a lot of players don't know it's there.


Missed this, thanks for mentioning it.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 21
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 1:24:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Let me back up a little here. I know I had this discussion before, and Al got pissed, but in your opinions, is all the info I need in the manual? Let's say I do nothing else but study the manual. Will all my questions be able to get answered there? Bc somethimes I feel that the manual does not provide procedural info very well. IE, how do I make an engineer build an airfield? that sort of thing.


All of your questions will not be answered by the manual. But reading and understanding the manual is the necessary base for all other learning. You will not understand the patch notes--which you should closely read--unles you first understand the manual. Many of the questions posed here on the forum concern cracks between topics IN THE MANUAL.

There's no easy way out of it, no way to avoid it. If you want to learn to play this game well, you must read, and re-read, the manual. You cannot go take a graduate-level course in AE, which a lot of threads are here, without first attending elementary/grammar school.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 5/28/2013 1:35:48 PM >


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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 1:32:50 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

It's on the Base Info screen - in this case, it is unlimited, which, IIRC, is the case for every non-Atoll hex.

Hmmm...from Quixote's s/shot above, it looks like I might be mistaken about all non-Atolls - nonetheless, the Base screen has the lowdown.


It is important for newbies to understand that Island Size, as described in App. B, 20.2, page 288 DOES NOT indicate terrain type. "Atoll" is a terrain type, NOT a size. Stacking is determined by island size.

They are rare, but there are large atoll-type islands. Christmas Island is an Atoll-type island, but is Very Large, with unlimited stacking. The island table which begins on page 289 is controlling.

Very often on the forum folks will shorthand "atoll" to mean "6000 stacking." While that is often true it can bite you in the hinder.

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The Moose

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Post #: 23
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 1:37:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

OK, I muddied the waters here. Here's what I was trying to get you to discover.

Unless I'm horridly wrong, Air HQs are the sole source of torpedoes for air units (Catalinas, for instance) and most others (not subs, tho, IIRC - hafta to make sure where subs get torps - b'leev an AS will do or a big enuff Port).

Take a look at ADs as well.




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The Moose

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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 2:00:30 PM   
HexHead

 

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As always, thx for the info & help.

ADs give torps to DD/DE?PC etc., only, or anything that can handle the device, like a Mk XIV, for instance?

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 25
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 2:17:22 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

As always, thx for the info & help.

ADs give torps to DD/DE?PC etc., only, or anything that can handle the device, like a Mk XIV, for instance?


I've never done a census to be absolutely sure, but I think of ADs as "all other" torpedo vendors. If it isn't a sub or an airplane an AD probably works. DDs, CLs, CAs, DEs cover 99% of the range and ADs are their friends.

PTs have their own tenders. AGPs. I do not recall ever trying to re-arm PTs from an AD. Perhaps someone has that answer.

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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 2:51:01 PM   
HexHead

 

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I think you're right on the last - the patrol craft have their own tenders and those cannot address issues for larger craft.

Oops, see you meant t'other way around. Hmmm...got a feeling AGPs are it for the small fry.

< Message edited by HexHead -- 5/28/2013 2:52:29 PM >


_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 27
RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 3:23:58 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

I think you're right on the last - the patrol craft have their own tenders and those cannot address issues for larger craft.

Oops, see you meant t'other way around. Hmmm...got a feeling AGPs are it for the small fry.


Also AGs for small fry repair, not arming.

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The Moose

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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 3:32:32 PM   
Numdydar

 

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There is a detailed Tender thread on the forum (too lazy to look for it ) that is very helpful in explaining what each class of tender can do for what ships.

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RE: Starting out the GC scenario, ALLIES - 5/28/2013 6:30:27 PM   
mantrain

 

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I am still not clear what the purpose of docking/undocking ships when forming a task force. For example, a transport, or amphib ---
I form TF, add ship, load units, where does the docking procedure fit in it all.

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