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The Problem of Clark

 
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The Problem of Clark - 5/15/2013 7:18:21 PM   
el cid again

 

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Why is the Japanese Army so unable to take Clark when it attacks in force?

Because the hex is wrongly coded as "rough jungle."

This was explained years ago "because there is jungle in the hex, the hexes are large."



Yet the Central Luzon plain is the key fact - the good road infrastructure with open country - and IRL it was not possible to stop the IJA even with nominally superior numbers of troops. The exception was the Philippine Scouts, armed with the M-1 Garand - who consistently could stop any Japanese unit. But they were always flanked and the flanking (not Scouts) units could not hold, so they too had to fall back. [79,176]

Regretfully, I have concluded this means we must reissue pwhexe files with this hex recoded as clear terrain.

At the same time, I found that Samulaki [78,117] is improperly coded in pwhexe. The ONLY direction from which a ship can really approach the port is shown as a blocked hex side! So along with urban hex definition updates, the "final" pwhexe set will correct these issues.



< Message edited by el cid again -- 5/15/2013 7:36:04 PM >
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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/15/2013 9:14:17 PM   
SuluSea


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I believe the development team made a call and it was correct. Could a different call be made and it be correct? Maybe! Would plains or open country be one of them? I don't believe so!!

All one has to do is look at a topography map or this one to note that the 40 mile hex around Clark is not "plain" or "open country".



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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/15/2013 9:23:21 PM   
Terminus


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Well I'm just going to make the call that if Trevethan says something it's untrue.

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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/15/2013 9:55:40 PM   
oldman45


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Is that shaded blue area to the right of Clark swamp?

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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/15/2013 10:30:39 PM   
SuluSea


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The map legend states rice paddy. The spiked looking green lines near San Augustin and Mt Arayat volcano are tropical grasses . US Army has it all wrong it can't be a volcano in that hex even if it is extinct.



< Message edited by SuluSea -- 5/15/2013 10:41:22 PM >


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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/16/2013 1:53:54 AM   
V I Lenin

 

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Essentially it is a question of - what do you care more about? - the hex taken as a 46x46mi whole is mountainous, but for most practical purposes *Clark Field itself* is not - ok, if you're attacking it from the west you're going to have big problems, but from the east, which is really the relevant bit (since the Japanese in early war will 95% be coming from there, and in later war Americans probably also if they come at all) it is a relatively clear run - so it depends whether you consider the land positions or the airfield more important, I guess. Neither are 'wrong', just a different emphasis...though making it a straight jungle hex as a compromise between the two extremes seems like a better idea to me; as the attacker, there is a relatively easy run 'through' the Clark hex to the Bataan hex, so it shouldn't be a super defensible location (since troops in the super defensible areas can ~ be bypassed); but, also taking the airfield itself does not automatically make it usable if you have enemy troops in the overlooking hills - so there will be some work required to get them out, at least.

e: if you do reduce the defensibility of Clark you should probably make Bataan a rough jungle, though - since there there isn't really an easy way 'around' the mountains.

< Message edited by V I Lenin -- 5/16/2013 1:55:57 AM >

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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/16/2013 2:53:45 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

The map legend states rice paddy. The spiked looking green lines near San Augustin and Mt Arayat volcano are tropical grasses . US Army has it all wrong it can't be a volcano in that hex even if it is extinct.




Sure looks more than a bit like a "shield" volcano to me.

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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/16/2013 10:17:38 AM   
moonraker


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Isn't Mount Pinatubo (Sp) near Clark ?

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RE: The Problem of Clark - 5/16/2013 11:45:05 AM   
SuluSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Isn't Mount Pinatubo (Sp) near Clark ?

Yes, it's roughly 10 miles W/SW of Clark. I believe the evidence in the maps show that the Clark hex is not clear and the developers of this game made the right call....



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