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Cold war gone HOT - central front: Red Lightning2

 
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Cold war gone HOT - central front: Red Lightning2 - 5/14/2013 9:10:37 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Noted this forum seems more busy than where I posted 1st. So I copy my entries to here. This scen will be ready in 1 week or so.

From http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3311922

NOTE: THIS WAS DESIGNED IN HARPOON GOLD 2002 - using the HDS9 battleset series3 "GIUK"....scen ready in mid of May

If you wanna play a game with landforces for WW3 in 1989 refer to http://www.myabandonware.com/game/red-lightning-qy I had the Amiga version years ago, I cannot run this DOS version however. If someone knows another good WW3 game like Red Lighting1 SSI tell me.....

Well I fired up Harpoon ca. 1 month ago, inspired by some cool vids on youtube with modern fighters and AA fire. I thought it seems their is no scen for Harp which modells the "cold war gone hot" in the central European front (NL,DK,B, France, Southeastern part of the UK, West+East Germany, Poland, USSR (or CIS like called in this battleset....).

I will post more info as soon I playtested the scen, it has not dozends but hundreds of planes from all nations involved (ex: Mig21, Tornado, F16, FRG version F4, Mirages, SU27, TU16/22, MIG23,27,29 etc.)... some nice toys...also well ca. 200 ships and subs....most of them smaller types you normally dont see to much btw.

I use Harpoon Gold from 2003 btw. I dont want to deal with the even heavier detail of the newest Harp version. It runs with Battleset No. 9 (enh. GIUK i believe).


Well the orig. version had to be scaled down quite a bit, since it was way too massive (too much bases and different planes on these). In game every second a message popped up also very difficult to plan flights for the AI.

Still this version has some of the main real historic Nato bases (like Bitburg,Ramstein, Soesterberg for the US or Leuwaarden for the Dutch, Kleine Brogel in Belgium, Nordholz+Laarbruch+Neuburg in W-Germany, as well some main military ports = Den Helder+Wilhelmshaven+Copenhagen).

This should be played firstly only by BLUE side (I may do a version for RED if I get the time later). So in this Blog post I try to avoid giving too much info on the red side.

But in the next post you will get an overview of the Blue forces, from a historic point and game point. I have the 1989 Nato OOB, whichw as the last Cold War year. However for severall reasons this plays in the 90ties. This means THE COLD WAR DID NOT END at the historical point. Rather it went well up in the 90ties - untill the great clash of the blocks happened....

STORYLINE (a little writing up for the scen so you get a clue what is about):

Sometime in the 90ties: The coup in Russia succeeded. Not only was the president imprisoned but the freedom movements in Poland and the GDR (=East Germany) were supressed. Not with violence, but more "quietly". So the west had not much clues what went on at all. First they were shocked by the turmoil in the Kremlin, but soon the relations between the sides normalized, because the new government in Russia seemed reasonable. They wanted a new deal with the US for delivery of non millitary items and the US business needed new deals - pressured the white house to be more friendly with the east. So they did, also the West German cancellor who also was more a puppet of big corporations that wanted export to the east, met with eastern president Lisy to discuss new trade deals. He was impressed by the chance of language - the new officials seemed to be more realistic and friendly than the old guard around Honecker.

But little did they know what was happening, as in reality the millitary planned to get back the old soviet glory and demand what was rightfully them. If demand wasn´t working, pressure maybe would.....first the old Finnish wound should be healed. As their demand was not really bad (a "leasing" of the old territories which the Generals felt belonged to Russia), the Fins caved in to not have a second winter war. But the Russians didn´t stop there, they wanted a better protection of their northern flank. Sweden was strictly neutral and too strong, so Norway was the only option....

NATO wasnt prepared at all, lulled in by the new warm climate between the blocks. But the homeguard was. But they were too few. Russian speznaz and paratroops suddenly stormed key bases and the tanks came later. There were not much Nato forces in Norway at all, so this was solved fast. The norwegian government called a ceasefire with the option offered by the Russians that only the northern half of the country will be occupied, the other half became a norwegian "vichy". The few US marines with their few helis and harriers fled to Denmark as well some left over planes from the Norway airforce (some F16+F5 Tigers). So all 3 countries in the north now were more (=Norway) or less (=Sweden) controlled by the USSR.

While Nato was still discussing how to react, the Russians made their next coup, demanding from Denmark free passage for all shipping. If this demand would be fullfilled, the case would be settled and there would be peace again. So the Kremlin. The Denish had a resolute prime minister at this time, who send Moscow a package with a letter and a bottle in it: "You can have this bottle of Denish beer for free, but not more". Also it contained a bottle of Danish beer.........


Overview of the BLUE forces (this is in the 90ties, but no specific date):

a) Belgium (only airforce - their few ships are employed in convoi duty and coastal patrol).

They have mostly F16s and a few Mirages. Belgium had MirageIIIs but they are substituted with 2000s in game (there is also no MIII in the database for this batttleset). Also you can use some Alpha Jets for light bombing duties (these are substituted by Hawks in game cause no Alpha Jet in database). Bases represented are Kleine Brogel and Florennes (the latter the bigger one).

b) Canada

Canada had CF18s stationed in Germany. In this scen it is assumed they are mostly withdrawn, but the last ones are still there: At Frankfurt Rhein Main airport ready for departure to Canada (ferry loadout)......

c)Denmark

They have also mostly F16s and a few Saab Draken. But also some F5s which fled from Norway. The Saab isnt in the database so you need to do without them, therefore the F16s look really cool (see pic). Also some Hawks are provided as light attack planes (or trainer but you do not need to train your pilots in this game). They also have some asw helis and all the US marine corps transport helos that fled from Norway. You should not lose too much of these transports they are needed for a air landing attack in Eastern Germany later....they have severall bases mostly at the coast (biggest one Copenhagen). Their navy consists of small corvettes, fast missile boats and diesel subs (2 of them in game).

d)France: They always were (and wanted) something special and their own way. So in the 90ties the French werent keen on Nato service anymore (in fact they had withdrawn from the active duty member role in reality but returned later). But there was no question that they would defend themselves and their neighbouring allied countries (mainly WGermany and Belgium in central front). So as soon someone in earnest may attack these countries the French will be involved...but most of their forces are already occupied in the med and atlantic and the southern front.There are no French navy assets available for the northsea and baltic regions (this wasnt their responsibility anyways).

They provide some air assets however: At the airfield Cambrai they have assigned Mirages (2000s and F1s) as well asw forces in the form of 2 brandnew Atlantic2 and 2 Puma helos to Nato central command....

ROE for France: Their force can only be used if a hostile shot is fired on Belgium or WGerman territory....Cambrai is pretty much far away from Red bases so should face no direct attack normally.

e) Germany (WEST): Provides the main force in the central front, severall bases are spread over the whole country as well the important war ports of Wilhelmshaven (Northsea) and Kiel/Eckernfoerde (Balticsea). Their bases are only medium in size with only "large" aircraft capacity - but some have good defenses in the form of Patriot batteries + Flak guns (most bases have Hawks+AA guns at least like all the others in W-Europe). The main exception is the huge military part of the airport Frankfurt/Main with 3 runways and Vlarge capacity! This is mostly used by the US airforce however.

The Luftwaffe employs Tornados in interdiction/attack role, some of the new SEAD/recon versions "ECR" are already there. Since their F4s in the attack role are mostly now overtaken by the more modern Tornado, the German F4Fs were modified as specialized fighter versions with better radar, avionics and they can use AMRAAM missiles. But note this is an early version of the missile not much better except in range as the newer Sparrows (AMRAAM range 40nm, Sparrow 24nm)... also some light attack planes/trainers can used (here Hawks which substitue the Alpha Jet in game). Note that Tornados can fly at Vlow altitude with afterburner on.

The Bundesmarine has as their main assets still the ex US destroyers of the Lutjens class (2 left at this time), Bremen frigates, as well 1 of a new frigate type just completed. They have an old destroyer still of the Hamburg class and auxilary tenders which should be protected (if possible?). Light forces are severall fast attack craft Excocet armed. Of course the light Diesel subs of class 206A not to forget....while only small they pack a heavy torpedo punch and are silent (untill they fire.....)..... the Marine also has Tornados (can be armed with Kormoran2 anti ship missiles) and severall Sea King and Atlantic1 as asw assets...

So this is the right forum finally I hope (too confused with all the versions of Harp that exist )

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 6/2/2013 5:26:47 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/14/2013 9:20:37 PM   
Alpha77

 

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f) The Netherlands (sometimes refered to as Holland or simply cheese and windmill country)

They have 2 bases here: Soesterberg + Leuwaarden. While the first one holds a US airforce unit of F15s the latter has all the F16s in different loadouts. Dutch navy provides 2 Diesel subs as well a major sufarce fleet with 1 DD and 4 frigates. These are based at Den Helder port, where also the cheese ASW helos can be found.

g) Norway: Is already beaten and occupied by Red - but neither side has any bases in range for this conflict. Part of the Norwegian airforce managed to flee to Denmark tho (mostly F5 "freedom fighters")


MEANWHILE: What happens at the front??? The politicians are concerned about the Russian reaction to the Danish reaction to their demands. They decide that now the point is reached where the fun ends and mobilize their forces. Nato will prepare to defend their member Denmark this time (better than Norway?) and themselfes....

Luckily the Nato news agency was able to catch some of the actions and ban them on film which you can view here:

- The modern DUTCH army mobilizes (but the common soldier does not seem concerned about the situation so impression from movie)Codenamed Operation "Donderslag":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU3ezksnGvk

- Dutch Pionierpanzers are building dugouts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td3VOQcWiHQ

- The UK BAOR (army of the rhine) are leaving Hildesheim to go into a eastern forward position, they do a parade as bye bye from the city (maybe there last one???) Citizens watching hope they come back alive....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ch2uR_RV-8

- German Panzers and Grenadiers march into their asigned sectors in case of something bad happens....while concerned citizens are fleeing in their cars to the more save western part of the country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiQM_cwLsDo

- Anti air artillery is preparing for the case of red air assaults, in this case a Gepard AA tank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kvdhth6mSo





< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/14/2013 10:38:49 PM >

(in reply to Alpha77)
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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/15/2013 12:02:35 AM   
Terminus


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Denmark has at no point in history operated ASW helicopters.

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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/15/2013 3:09:46 AM   
aspqrz

 

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I think he's saying the ASW Helos are *Norwegian*, or, maybe, US, and fled to Denmark with the USMC Transport Helos.

Phil

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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/15/2013 12:22:55 PM   
Terminus


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Norway had no ASW helicopters in this time frame either. They're only beginning to develop that capability today.

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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/15/2013 5:23:18 PM   
CV32


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Denmark has at no point in history operated ASW helicopters.


While they did not operate in the dedicated ASW role, or carry weapons, the Lynx Mk 80 helos that began delivery to Denmark from 1980 could easily be employed in the role, if only to provide patrol and reconnaissance duties. Spotting a submarine is three-quarters (or more) of the battle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Norway had no ASW helicopters in this time frame either. They're only beginning to develop that capability today.


Again, much the same is true of the Lynx Mk 86 and Sea King Mk 43 types for Norway. Although not used or equipped for offensive ASW, its not hard to imagine these helos being pressed into useful wartime roles in a pinch. What with World War III and all.

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(in reply to Terminus)
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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/16/2013 2:37:20 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Joined: 9/24/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Norway had no ASW helicopters in this time frame either. They're only beginning to develop that capability today.


First: This is no historical scenario (or did we have the wall still standing and 2 Germanys in 94??) and of course the OOB is NOT historical either but the historic OOBs are used as templates - Second: But in your case just assume they are British, German or US... if you dont like the Danes to have helos at all But they have electric light already I assure you that ah and third: If you dont like asw helos, use the loadout "FERRY" so they are unarmed.....

Yup I know it is much to read, but I just enjoy to tell fantasy stories....


h) USA (only air assets, their fleet has no business in this part of the front)

Upper Heyford, UK vlarge and 3 runways: F111s, B52s (which are a just per coincidence here...) also the few Awacs Nato has in this scen can be found here.

Soesterberg, NL: F15c
Ramstein, Ger: F16, F4 "wild weasel"
Bitburg,Ger: F15c
Frankfurt/Main,Ger: F15 c+e (ferry loadout as they are ready to leave Germany) also here you find the large transport planes and helis. These are most important and should be protected of course. Losing too much important transports will certainly NOT improve Natos chances for surviving, even if in-game they are more or less useless....Also do not forget the Canadian CF18s at this airport.

i) UK (air and 1 sub)

Brits have 1 modern upholder diesel sub in the north of the baltic (mission was recon so it should stay only in emergency fire)

Coltishall, UK: TornadoF3, Tornado GR4, Jaguar plus some AEW/ASW helis
Laarbruch; Ger: Tornado GR4, Harrier

NOTE1: There are no CAS planes ala A10 and only a few light attack planes (like the Hawk, Alpha Jet.. which are really roughly comparable) in this scen. As these were/are really for support of ground troops/training not for strikes on major ships or airports. But a few are provided which can be used for these purposes in emergencies. The RED side also has also only a few of these planes (if someone misses SU25 for example).....EDIT: You even allowed to use these "Alpha Jets" for ATA missions as I just read Alpha Jet could carry 2 sidewinders (as well in German version a 27mm Mauser)

NOTE2: In V1 of this scen (which is the "easier" one) Nato has a few more planes (please look at some ports which will hold Harriers and the Belgians have differing OOB, more F16 no M 2000, but therefore M F1.....) But no big differences on Nato site.....as for Red I wont spoil that of course. You need to find out yourself.....

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/16/2013 3:34:46 PM >

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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/16/2013 3:52:35 PM   
Alpha77

 

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So what does the intel say about the RED forces and their intentions???

It is assumed that the Russian generals are not very pleased with the Danish reaction. Marshall Ustinow even went in a rage he was reported yelling :" What dare this dwarf country to resist to our might and rightful demands.........". Plans obtained in the 80ties assume that speznas and air landing troops might attack important Nato assets, as well SSMs launched. As Russians are well aware that in modern war air suppority is needed to move large armies, they might try to neutralize airports and the assets on them. Ports like Wilhemshaven might be also priority targets . The East German and Polish forces werent as good as the Russians ones, but still they hold major roles. Like landing in Northern Germany or Denmark coasts and of course support the air campaign, but their ships are older and mostly small.

a) Germany (EAST)
Air: They provide all the bases for the Russian forces, as well substantiell strength of their own. However they should only have few Mig29s as planes that hold modern standards. They still employ MiG21 for mostly AtA duties but might also use them for strike (even if payload is small), their main combat plane is the Mig23 tho. They posess SU17/22 strike planes too. Exact locations and distribution of all the Red assets unknown, we only can identify numbers and size of planes (eg. we can of course tell from satellite recon if a airbase holds small Mig21 or TU16 bombers). We prepared for the commander a map where all our known infos are collected (select red base, click on full report).....
Navy: They have mostly older smaller Russian types, but built some own designs as well (eg. Balcom, Frosch LSTs). Osa1 missile boats can be expected, no submaries afawk......of course the Russians and Poles might help them out with ships....

b) Poland
Provides bases for Russian airforce. Has good airforce themselfes too. Check the East Ger report, as it is roughly the same for Poland. However the main base is Brzeg (vlarge, 2 runways) which should be used by the Russians with modern planes....navy smaller but they might possess the one or other bigger older DD (Kashin?)....

c) Russia
Air: They have put all their Mig21s in reserve or gave them to allies. Main fighters are Mig29 and Su27. For special duties they use some Mig25 still also the newer Mig31 *could* be in service. Mig23 latest version still used. As for attack, Mig27 seem to be numerous, small numbers of Mig29 *could* be used in this role too (they have more payload!). Russia still retained some older SU17s too but modernized with eg. better missiles...the early SU24 were a huge step for the Russian strike forces and it should be the main plane now used for longer ranges, it *can* be that a even more capable EW/patrol/SEAD version is in service now. Bomber and recon forces still like the TU16s... but the far faster Backfires would be prefered. However these are often used for maritime strikes so it is questionable if they are available for land attacks...main bases of Russia: Kaliningrad, Brezg and St. Petersburg port. Check the whole map, so you do not oversee Red bases (hint)

Navy: In this area not much cruisers should be expected cause the seas are to shallow and tight....but Russia has dozends of smaller craft, as well good numbers of DDs and FFs. They use older Kashins, together with modern Udaloys. New frigates might be in service, too. Russian base St. Petersburg is said to hold marine infantry so we can assume the landing ships to transport them are there too (Polnochny ? Alligator etc.?).... Russia uses merchants too in the role of landing support ships. Submarine thread should be high to servere.....mostly Diesel subs but we are not really sure about that aspect sadly....our knowledge of the Norwegian sea is slim cause Russia has air suppority there (there was a rumour that larger ships are headed there but we dont believe that Russia tries to intervene in the northsea, except with air+subs), slim too the recon of the northern baltic region, this is why we have sent our subs out.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/17/2013 2:49:04 PM >

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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 5/17/2013 2:37:18 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 492
Joined: 9/24/2010
From: Westfalen
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So here is THE final video for this scen: The Third World War - a fictional docu produced by 2nd German TV (its mostly in German of course!) Must see for people interested in Cold War and the 3rd World War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk34rmKjL_8

Here is a pic from scen:




Note that there will probably be a HARP3 version done by Herman Hum from this scen - as soon it is ready you can grab both versions

The next post here will be the BLUE orders as well of course all versions of the scen for download (also will be at Harpgamer scen database....). Maybe another week or so.

-> Meanwhile enjoy the videos provided to get yourself in the right WW3 mood

SYSTEM SPECS: a) Pentium P4 2.66ghz,1 MB Ram,onboard graphics b) Core 2 Duo 2.66,2 MB dualchannel Ram, Ati 6450 - both PCs WinXP SP3 - runs fine on both computers, slows down only during "hotter" battles....

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/17/2013 2:55:42 PM >

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RE: Cold war gone HOT - central front - soon: Red Light... - 6/2/2013 5:26:08 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 492
Joined: 9/24/2010
From: Westfalen
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Blue Orders:
a) Protect airspace and all installations

b) If the red side should do something stupid, you are authorized to attack and destroy any red assets. Order of priority: bases, ports, major ships, bomber-fighter-attack planes, subs......and every other asset.

c) Keep your forces intact for later ops.Also the transports!!

d) Protect our fleet and sortie out to the north and baltic seas to hunt down the submarine pests we suspect there...TIP: better wait untill you have air suppority, dont sortie the German and Danish ships too early!!! They may have trouble to deal with heavy air attacks.. As well you might have trouble to control all the assets on your command at once. So leave the surface actions alone untill the air war cools down.

e) Use the subsurface assets to gather intelligence on the Red fleet, but remember if you launch weapons you will mostly be detected early on. Heavy resistance by air ASW planes can be expected, so be careful.

Red Orders:

This scen is only playable by the blue side.....

I am sure this quite big (and not for the faint hearted) scenario needs some assistance and players will have question, just post them here I will also post some game tips after some time - as they may contain spoilers they will be published later to not spoil the game !


DOWNLOAD:


http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/file/820-red-lightning-2/

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 6/2/2013 5:31:35 PM >

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