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Has anyone actually got the editor to work?

 
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Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/13/2013 2:50:49 PM   
Steely Glint


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And, if so, how?

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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/13/2013 7:26:21 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint
And, if so, how?


I am using ToF game version 1.04 and Editor version 1.04 and have done some small scale editing of stock scenarios. Others have done larger scale work, including creation of new scenarios with earlier versions of the game and editor, these are discussed in the mods section of the forum.

When you say 'get the editor to work', are you having trouble getting the editor to run, or problems in using the editor when it does run.

I am using Windows 7 Home Premium on a laptop and the editor runs. I have had problems using the editor in finding out how it works and after saving edited scenarios, getting them to run in the game.

One problem I have just discovered is that after editing a scenario, it fails to run in the game. I would do the editing work in stages and check run the edited scenario to see how it looked in the game. After several successful stages the edited scenario would then crash and not run, for no apparent reason. I found that the commanders.csv got scrambled lines of data after being saved by the editor. This happened on lines which had names using accents (Brašiæ, Dönitz), this does not happen when you manually edit and save the file. The fix is restore the file from a clean back-up.

A lot of editing can be done by working on files direct in Excel and Notepad, I am only using the editor to change maps.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Steely Glint)
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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 12:30:17 AM   
Steely Glint


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quote:

I am using Windows 7 Home Premium on a laptop and the editor runs


I am trying to use it on three different Windows 7 Home Premium systems. They all have dot.net and XNA installed. It gives me errors on all three. I wish I knew how you got it to work. I would love to do some map editing.

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"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 7:12:17 AM   
Magpius


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don't even go there.

I am a Wastelands fan, BUT the editor is their Achilles heel, for ALL their games.
Still waiting for a finished robust intuitive editor with an accompanying manual or tutorial.

(in reply to Steely Glint)
Post #: 4
RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 8:27:24 AM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S
don't even go there.

I am a Wastelands fan, BUT the editor is their Achilles heel, for ALL their games.
Still waiting for a finished robust intuitive editor with an accompanying manual or tutorial.


Agent S you are the pinnacle for modding the look of these games and I use a lot of your work, but I am making progress with the editor on amateur small scale work, having noticed that the editor corrupts files on save. Finding and fixing the scrambled, or missing text, allows the edited scenarios to work. I still get CTDs at random times, whatever I do, but the scenarios do eventually run and seems to be OK, after the initial teething period is over and you get into a game.


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Magpius)
Post #: 5
RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 8:55:09 AM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

quote:

I am using Windows 7 Home Premium on a laptop and the editor runs


I am trying to use it on three different Windows 7 Home Premium systems. They all have dot.net and XNA installed. It gives me errors on all three. I wish I knew how you got it to work. I would love to do some map editing.


What sort of errors are you getting, one simple problem was that the game files are set to read only and you have to go into file properties to allow changes to edit them. No way am I claiming to be an expert, but I have stumbled over this ground and made some progress.


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 5/14/2013 5:17:43 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Steely Glint)
Post #: 6
RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 12:33:53 PM   
Magpius


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Rasp, thanks; yes, if you persevere with regular ctd's and constant spreadsheet tweaks, I am sure existing scenarios can be modified for game balance and a.i strengthening.
But the editor is such a pain there is still no community with posted scenarios that suggest any large scale successes.
It's a real pity, because I enjoy this series of games from Wastelands, and while the graphics are 70% modifiable; (30% off due to the random selection of terrain tiles!, but that's another story), we shouldn't have to stumble about trying to walk a software minefield waiting for an inevitable glitch. To derail or stall a scenario attempt.

We (not just me) have been politely and patiently requesting a revamp of the editor since Time of Wrath, Storm and Fury, and while I appreciate that only a tiny number of people would create scenarios, it would continue to strengthen these titles. But it seems more time is devoted to projects already in the pipeline. Perhaps these will ship with a more complete editor.
We shall see.
[EDIT]
...and please no discussing the upcoming ashes tour...everyone in Aus. are already embarrassed.

< Message edited by Agent S -- 5/14/2013 12:37:58 PM >


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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 5:15:45 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S
Rasp, thanks; yes, if you persevere with regular ctd's and constant spreadsheet tweaks, I am sure existing scenarios can be modified for game balance and a.i strengthening.
But the editor is such a pain there is still no community with posted scenarios that suggest any large scale successes.
It's a real pity, because I enjoy this series of games from Wastelands, and while the graphics are 70% modifiable; (30% off due to the random selection of terrain tiles!, but that's another story), we shouldn't have to stumble about trying to walk a software minefield waiting for an inevitable glitch. To derail or stall a scenario attempt.

We (not just me) have been politely and patiently requesting a revamp of the editor since Time of Wrath, Storm and Fury, and while I appreciate that only a tiny number of people would create scenarios, it would continue to strengthen these titles. But it seems more time is devoted to projects already in the pipeline. Perhaps these will ship with a more complete editor.
We shall see.
[EDIT]
...and please no discussing the upcoming ashes tour...everyone in Aus. are already embarrassed.


Many of the frustrations reported in the game come from faulty scenario design and with a more user friendly editor the gaming community would produce much better configured games, but ........

As regards the Ashes, counting chickens come to mind.


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Magpius)
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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 5:49:45 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I don't use the editor. Not being a big modder. However, since you guys report that it doesn't work, why not fall back on the tried and true method of text editing the data files? Notepad works well enough.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 6:53:30 PM   
Steely Glint


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What data files do I edit to turn the Qattara Depression into sea hexes?

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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/14/2013 11:16:30 PM   
gwgardner

 

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countries.csv?

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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/15/2013 7:12:21 AM   
Magpius


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GW, I have often asked for someone at Wastelands to do an AAR for a scenario design,(from start to finish), so we could follow along, create our own in parallel, and ask questions along the way; all to no avail.

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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/15/2013 10:08:10 AM   
Peter123

 

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I have revisited the Editor and noticed that newer versions seem [do not work properly].EDIT: False alarm;they work fine.
Version 1.01 is the one I employ to make scenarios. look at this post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

What data files do I edit to turn the Qattara Depression into sea hexes?


No data files, you need to edit the map in the editor to do that.


< Message edited by Peter123 -- 5/16/2013 6:42:27 PM >

(in reply to Steely Glint)
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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/15/2013 10:53:47 AM   
Ariennye


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I used the SWiE Editor v.1.05.
I made there a small (single hex) Island with a port on it (the Canaries) just for e test. And I made some railroad tracks along the north african coast as well.
It all went well.

Have al look here:

"How to make a new island with a new port - problem" in the forum "Strategic War in Europe" >> "Mods and Scenarios"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3186145


< Message edited by Ariennye -- 5/15/2013 10:59:10 AM >


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f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/15/2013 12:36:08 PM   
Magpius


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I've made the 1915 Gallipoli peninsula with initial units. and a space opera game with colony fleets and a starship troopers bug planet.
..all with the appropriate graphic mods...
But it all begins to fall apart with fleets, sea zones, connecting zones and the like.
If I had the patience and the time I'm sure I could eventually bash it enough to work.
BUT IT SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE SO DIFFICULT!
almost all the games on matrix come with working editors or none at all, why not this one?

(in reply to Ariennye)
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RE: Has anyone actually got the editor to work? - 5/15/2013 3:03:18 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I suspect Wastelands does not use the editor, but does it all manually, maybe with the exception of the map? I don't know, speaking from ignorance. Just seems like if they used the editor, they would make it work.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 5/15/2013 3:06:01 PM >

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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/15/2013 3:26:36 PM   
Peter123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S
almost all the games on matrix come with working editors or none at all, why not this one?


Maybe that's the question: I assume that TOF does not include an Editor (it is not included in the features list) instead they give us the software they use to create scenarios -Almost- an Editor for free.
I am grateful that they have taken this decision instead of not including an Editor at all.

(in reply to Magpius)
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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/16/2013 11:07:40 AM   
Magpius


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Peter, I generally agree.
I've been with Wastelands since road to victory.
It's just the bugginess of what passes as an editor just leaves things a little sour.
Your modding work however, seems to have largely overcome the hurdles that have stumped me.
perhaps a tutorial thread???

(in reply to Peter123)
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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/16/2013 11:45:39 AM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S
Peter, I generally agree.
I've been with Wastelands since road to victory.
It's just the bugginess of what passes as an editor just leaves things a little sour.
Your modding work however, seems to have largely overcome the hurdles that have stumped me.
perhaps a tutorial thread???

It's not just finding out how to use the editor, important though that is, if the editor is going to scramble files on save, you don't get to use your work. Is this something that came in with later versions, or is it my system.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Magpius)
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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/16/2013 8:28:25 PM   
Peter123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
Is this something that came in with later versions, or is it my system.


That happens; the last country Id. in countries.csv is the only thing I must fix.

Do not replace your playable scenario with the Editor outpout (it replaces most files).

Edit a copy of your scenario and move only the files that you have modified (usualy the map, or cities, units, etc.) to your playable scenario folder.

Edit by steps. Keep backups.

Later versions are fine, I was wrong.

< Message edited by Peter123 -- 5/16/2013 8:32:13 PM >

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/16/2013 10:15:51 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter123

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
Is this something that came in with later versions, or is it my system.


That happens; the last country Id. in countries.csv is the only thing I must fix.

Do not replace your playable scenario with the Editor outpout (it replaces most files).

Edit a copy of your scenario and move only the files that you have modified (usualy the map, or cities, units, etc.) to your playable scenario folder.

Edit by steps. Keep backups.

Later versions are fine, I was wrong.


Thanks, I have been editing in scenarios separate from the games I am playing. I have several copies of the game on the HDD and have multiple backups, so that I can replace damaged files from the other versions of the scenarios.

It just all takes so much time to achieve anything with the editor.


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Peter123)
Post #: 21
RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 2:57:24 AM   
Peter123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

It just all takes so much time to achieve anything with the editor.


I have made a test: 2 hrs. to make a very basic (playable) scenario; indeed the basis for a scenario (Version 1.03).






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 3:08:39 AM   
Peter123

 

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I have uploaded the scenario here:http://www.mediafire.com/?fjl5kv2oqnncqlc

I have relied upon this map:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Peter123 -- 5/17/2013 3:32:22 AM >

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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 8:24:45 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Peter123

Thanks, I don't have the experience that you have demonstrated, but I had successfully used the editor to achieve some small scale map changes to correct faults and add to map features. What took the time were constant CTDs when trying to run the edited scenario to check the work.

Now I know that the editor has been scrambling the data in some files and by replacing with clean files from back-up, it has become easier.

It would be useful to know which files are needed to transfer all the required map data from one edited scenario to another, so that I don't have to repeat the map editing work.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 5/17/2013 8:30:50 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Peter123)
Post #: 24
RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 9:14:22 AM   
Magpius


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Amazing Peter.
Could you please (if time permits) create a walkthrough AAR, for us of a scenario with, say 2 island combatants surrounded by a dozen sea zones.
Playable.

A basic model such as that could be tweaked to provide a wide range of scenarios.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 25
RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 9:54:42 AM   
Peter123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Peter123

Thanks, I don't have the experience that you have demonstrated, but I had successfully used the editor to achieve some small scale map changes to correct faults and add to map features. What took the time were constant CTDs when trying to run the edited scenario to check the work.

Now I know that the editor has been scrambling the data in some files and by replacing with clean files from back-up, it has become easier.

It would be useful to know which files are needed to transfer all the required map data from one edited scenario to another, so that I don't have to repeat the map editing work.



Thanks Rasputisa. My only intention is to encourage you to not give up because it is easier than it seems.
I'm not sure if you mean passing geographical changes to a different scenario, for example from Grand Campaign to Barbarossa. If so, I Think it is not possible. Geographical data is in the map.wim file, but it includes also ownership data wich is different in each scenario (frontiers are not the same).

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
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RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 10:12:30 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2377
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter123
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
Peter123

Thanks, I don't have the experience that you have demonstrated, but I had successfully used the editor to achieve some small scale map changes to correct faults and add to map features. What took the time were constant CTDs when trying to run the edited scenario to check the work.

Now I know that the editor has been scrambling the data in some files and by replacing with clean files from back-up, it has become easier.

It would be useful to know which files are needed to transfer all the required map data from one edited scenario to another, so that I don't have to repeat the map editing work.


Thanks Rasputitsa. My only intention is to encourage you to not give up because it is easier than it seems.
I'm not sure if you mean passing geographical changes to a different scenario, for example from Grand Campaign to Barbarossa. If so, I Think it is not possible. Geographical data is in the map.wim file, but it includes also ownership data wich is different in each scenario (frontiers are not the same).


I was afraid that might be the case and a lot of the frustration on the forum is because due to the lack of documentation, each person has to discover the workings of the editor in turn.

My position has been to say that I am using the editor and making progress, but it has been slow, the work of yourself and others has helped, as I have been able to pick up hints from the forum, so your contributions have been a great encouragement. The more you learn the easier it becomes.


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Peter123)
Post #: 27
RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 10:19:54 AM   
Peter123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S


Amazing Peter.
Could you please (if time permits) create a walkthrough AAR, for us of a scenario with, say 2 island combatants surrounded by a dozen sea zones.
Playable.

A basic model such as that could be tweaked to provide a wide range of scenarios.



You will say that it is easier than it seems , but it is hard to me to do so because muy poor english and lack of time. May be you can start such AAR and report the issues you find?.

(in reply to Magpius)
Post #: 28
RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 10:20:05 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2377
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter123
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
It just all takes so much time to achieve anything with the editor.

I have made a test: 2 hrs. to make a very basic (playable) scenario; indeed the basis for a scenario (Version 1.03).




It looks like you have regimental symbols on your German unit icons, is that just eye-candy, or does it represent a different level in the game. The game runs on two levels, Corps and Division, so have you transferred that into Division and Regiment, or have you got a third level.

P.S. nice work recreating the historical map into game hexes.


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 5/17/2013 10:21:49 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Peter123)
Post #: 29
RE: f r u s t r a t i o n - 5/17/2013 10:36:53 AM   
Peter123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

It looks like you have regimental symbols on your German unit icons, is that just eye-candy, or does it represent a different level in the game. The game runs on two levels, Corps and Division, so have you transferred that into Division and Regiment, or have you got a third level.

P.S. nice work recreating the historical map into game hexes.



Its a mistake (it was late)
The scenario is a starting point. About the units, my intention is to split the divisions in a lot of subunits covering the front. This can be done "in game" by playing both sides and making a save, then copying the landunits file from the save to the scenario folder.
The level should be the same for all units, because I like free merge and split for every unit.

< Message edited by Peter123 -- 5/17/2013 10:43:18 AM >

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
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