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check out this AI move - 5/12/2013 1:14:27 PM

phoenix

Posts: 1801
Joined: 9/28/2010
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The AI continues to surprise me. Check out the image below. I've given 2 BN - Frost's men - a command to take the Arnhem road bridge, with Attack checked. Bn has decided to put in an attack. Over to the north-west there's that pesky flak unit (intel says it's a mortar, but I know it's flak) that, in previous run-throughs, I've found very hard to eliminate. This time I thought I would just ignore it for a bit and get on and take the bridge first. But look what the BN plan includes - C company to attack the flak unit. Amazing, I think, that the AI decided to deal with it without my intervention, because it threatens the bridge approach, I guess. It's tasked to take the bridge and in its plan it decides to take out also a relatively distant flak unit which presents a danger to the bridge attackers. Great.

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< Message edited by phoenix -- 5/12/2013 1:17:01 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 2:20:10 AM

navwarcol

Posts: 613
Joined: 12/2/2009
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That is very cool Phoenix... I am regularly impressed with this AI as well.
A curious question... do you generally when playing, command at btn level? above? below?
And when you are at your "comfortable" command level, do you find yourself stepping in when your 'subordinates' make what seems to be a mistake? or do you 'trust them' in the style of 'auftragstaktik'?

(in reply to phoenix)

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RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 8:20:12 AM

phoenix

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Joined: 9/28/2010
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Nearly always Bn level for me. Certainly never above that. I interfere a lot. I regularly detach the Bn mortars, for example (the mortar belonging to 2 Bn above is detached and under my command, and their AT unit has been detached and sent sth to hold a crossroads). When this attack - above - played out what happened was that in the time the Bn gave c company to root out the flak unit it couldn't do it. And meanwhile the remainder of 2 Bn and the 3 indep cos (separately commanded by me)overran the bridge defenders. The Bn then gave C co a move order to the other side of the bridge, abandoning the attack on the now slightly battered flak unit. Great that it did all that off it's own bat, I think. But I then detached C company, gave it an attack order on the flak unit and put in a lot of manual bombards to help. I'm about 4 hours on in this scenario and the flak unit is still there. It's a strong unit though, I think about 6 flak guns and 150 men. I wish I could just form the plan and let the AI cock it up (or succeed), but I always interfere. I'm convinced I'm better trained than they are. If they were making cardboard boxes I could let them learn by their mistakes, but there are lives at stake....

Once they were all over the bridge I then, however, grouped 2 Bn and the indeps and gave them one command to defend there. So that's higher than Bn level, I guess.

I'm REALLY looking forward to the tactical level iteration, if it comes off. In the example above, for example, I have beefed up all those coup de main companies, so C company consists of nearly 250 men. Yet it still all went one way round the lake in front of the flak unit and put in an attack from one side only. There were enough men there to pin the unit from the front and send two platoons down the sides and rear. Wish I could see that.

What about you, navwarcol? You ever command at Regiment level? You role play it and don't interfere? Or are you worse than me?

(in reply to navwarcol)

Post #: 3

RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 12:51:18 PM

sharper

Posts: 271
Joined: 5/14/2009
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Impressive I agree!

What is the game time at this point?
Is the the big Maas-Rein scenario?

I was left bloody in my attempt.

_____________________________

All the best
Stephen

(in reply to phoenix)

Post #: 4

RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 2:25:03 PM

phoenix

Posts: 1801
Joined: 9/28/2010
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About 4pm, Day 1. It's an adapted Maas-Rhine, Stephen. I have landed 2BN plus the 3 indep para companies as a 'coup de main' force, just sth of the Arnhem Road bridge. Also, I dropped 1-508 on Hill 64.6 just sth of the Nijmegan road bridge,again, as a coup de main. I made these CDM companies much stronger, with beefed up supply, logistics and leaders (if the main force dropping north-west of Arnhem don't take the Arnhem rail bridge then the CDM companies will need extra supplies!). I moved the airdrop SEPs a little too - the 82nds to the heathland at Berg en Dal, first Airborne's to Renkum Heath, sth of the Arnhem-Ede railway line, to give them a fighting chance of establishing supply perimetres. What else? Gave the Poles some luck and dropped them at Driel (as originally intended) on Day 2. Gave the allies some limited airpower and pulled out all the stops to improve the initial supply situation. Dropped the day 2 arty for 82AB on heathland nearer Nijmegan, so that those too distant drop zones - N and T - needn't be held. I'm not sure whether all this makes it winnable as Allies. Still playing it through. The supply situation is still very tough. Wouldn't surprise me if I lose still, but there's a chance now because the Arnhem CDM force will make it difficult for the Axis to send reinforcements down to Nijmegan.

I can send you the file if you're interested in playing it through. It has minimal adaptations and, aside from the 'beefing up' of the CDM companies, it's all things that could have been changed historically. The drop schedule, aside from the Poles, is the same. Aside from 1AB CDM force, the drop locations are also more or less the same - only the Poles and the 2BN CDM force drop onto polder (and the Poles drop onto polder in the original, as, for that matter, do the 504 down at Overasselt). XXX corps still arrive on day 3. Let me know if you want it.

It's like a beginner's Maas-Rhine, in that you're in with a chance if you play it properly, whereas I don't think you have a chance in hell of anything higher than a draw in the original scenario (at least, I don't!)

< Message edited by phoenix -- 5/13/2013 2:26:21 PM >

(in reply to sharper)

Post #: 5

RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 2:56:06 PM

sharper

Posts: 271
Joined: 5/14/2009
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Sounds interesting Mr P. Ill give a try. I've just started Elsenborn Ridge (Allies). But will have a go. Send it over.

"It's like a beginner's Maas-Rhine, in that you're in with a chance if you play it properly, whereas I don't think you have a chance in hell of anything higher than a draw in the original scenario (at least, I don't!)"

A draw he says nonchalantly!

I should be so lucky

_____________________________

All the best
Stephen

(in reply to phoenix)

Post #: 6

RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 8:52:33 PM

navwarcol

Posts: 613
Joined: 12/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

What about you, navwarcol? You ever command at Regiment level? You role play it and don't interfere? Or are you worse than me?

I do command at rgt level, the higher level I command at, the more I interfere.. sadly haha. I almost always do as you are doing, pulling the "4th company"..weapon cpy usually, from each bn and command them, plus 1 company per regt, as my operational reserve under my own command.

(in reply to phoenix)

Post #: 7

RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 8:58:16 PM

phoenix

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Joined: 9/28/2010
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An operational reserve, 1 co from each reg - I like the sound of that. Do you do any redistributing to make good the Bn that loses the company? (Like putting that Bn together with another to make a super Bn under AI control?)Actually, now I think about it, you couldn't really do that. Because in order to group units you have to order them. Interesting. I suppose the best thing, in that case, would be to use the scenmaker to adapt the scenario and set up your reserve and consequent changes before you even start. Though I don't know, myself, how to tamper with the OOB in scenmaker. Will have to learn!

(in reply to navwarcol)

Post #: 8

RE: check out this AI move - 5/13/2013 9:26:09 PM

navwarcol

Posts: 613
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Yes, exactly how you said, I use the editor, if I am making good the lost company.. for smaller scenarios,I won't really repay the loss, I will sometimes look for an already over-strength btn, or I will just leave one understrength, which the AI then, smartly, often uses as its own reserve in attack orders.

(in reply to phoenix)

Post #: 9

RE: check out this AI move - 8/27/2013 3:22:23 AM

Noxos

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I'm still trying to figure out how "attacks" works. Is giving a move order with this checked the equivalent of giving a regular attack order except that you're giving the HQ total flexibility of how to do take the objective?

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Post #: 10

RE: check out this AI move - 8/27/2013 9:25:52 AM

phoenix

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Joined: 9/28/2010
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You mean, Noxos, giving a Move order with attack checked? As I understand it the force will move to the destination in column formation usually (quicker, but less safe)and when units encounter an enemy presence they halt, send a message back to their HQ for instructions. If Attack is checked the HQ can, if it wishes, then devise a full blown or lesser Attack all by itself and put it in. In my limited experience it is able to do this in about the same time (or slightly faster) than if you had initially given it an attack order (it used to be much quicker than the proper Attack order, hence how I got into the habit of using it - but that has been fixed a while back and proper Attacks go in much quicker now). There can be a speed advantage still because the unit(s) will have progressed quicker at Move speed before the enemy was encountered than if they were progressing in full attack order (which also tires them quicker), so you can often save time (and fatigue) that way. There are dangers though. One is that the HQ might decide to attack something quite a way off your route, because it perceives it as sufficient threat (which it might be - but if speed was what you were after then ticking 'bypass' would have made it go round such temptations instead).

(in reply to Noxos)

Post #: 11