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AI vs AI - Expectations?

 
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AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/9/2013 4:54:01 PM   
rmonical

 

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I noticed that in AI vs. AI using the 42-45 scenario, the Axis did better than historical.

In my first test with the 41-45 scenario, the Axis barely get past the Stalin line. I ended up disbanding almost a million men worth of Soviet units (down to 9.5 million) and cranking morale down to 90 and logistics and transport down to 95 just to get the test into 1943. Is this what is expected from AI-vs-AI? This is a custom scenario in which I am playing with TOE and element upgrades in late 42 and 43.
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RE: AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/9/2013 6:59:48 PM   
Joel Billings


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Yes, the German AI requires at least 110 help to pull off a decent 1941 attack. Too much finesse is required that the computer just isn't very good at.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to rmonical)
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RE: AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/9/2013 8:45:22 PM   
SigUp

 

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The AI has (understandably) a hard time pocketing units. Furthermore it tends to rout units out of the pockets it forms and generally (ab)uses its panzer divisions too harshly. So of course it has a hard time in 1941.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
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RE: AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/10/2013 6:31:38 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22418
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

The AI has (understandably) a hard time pocketing units. Furthermore it tends to rout units out of the pockets it forms and generally (ab)uses its panzer divisions too harshly. So of course it has a hard time in 1941.


AI does know how to pocket... Gary made this happen about a year ago...

Below is my animated GIFfrom February 2012!


Leo "Apollo11"




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 4
RE: AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/10/2013 8:20:51 AM   
morvael


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I did a 25-turn '41 test and the Germans were happy with just pushing the Soviets back (getting a lot of routs, but no encirclements). The AI knows how to maintain a front-line, but I'm afraid proper encirclements are out of it's reach (except when terrain and forts will help to funnel advances in proper direction).

(in reply to Apollo11)
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RE: AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/10/2013 3:32:32 PM   
janh

 

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AI can do pockets, but the more superior the attacking units are, the more often it simply keeps pushing hard and retreating or routing units by deliberate attacks when a human would rather bypass them. So the more you increase the disparity between German force quality and Soviet unit strength, e.g. German AI morale >>100-110 and Soviet smaller, the likelier it gets past the threshold to keep attacking. However, as you need to go beyond 110% in forst place for good results there is little option.

I also noticed the same as SigUp mentioned: AI tends to route units out of freshly formed pockets which are not under the isolation rule yet. While AI in its first part of the movement phase seems to establish pockets or situations which could lead to pockets in the second part of its movement phase, or next turn, it very often screws its own plans during that second part of the movement phase by not simply closing pockets or pushing deeper with the left-over MPs, but rather attacking the units already doomed in the rear of the (new) front line.

I guess this helps against AI spear-heads being cut-off or over-extension (being pocketed in return due to lack of rear-guard and holding the shoulders of the axis of advance), but at least in 41 it would be nice if it would leave a few more units in such doomed positions for capturing next turn.

< Message edited by janh -- 5/10/2013 3:33:38 PM >

(in reply to morvael)
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RE: AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/10/2013 4:43:47 PM   
rmonical

 

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quote:

but at least in 41 it would be nice if it would leave a few more units in such doomed positions for capturing next turn.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3287981

(in reply to janh)
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RE: AI vs AI - Expectations? - 5/14/2013 12:19:42 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22418
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

I did a 25-turn '41 test and the Germans were happy with just pushing the Soviets back (getting a lot of routs, but no encirclements). The AI knows how to maintain a front-line, but I'm afraid proper encirclements are out of it's reach (except when terrain and forts will help to funnel advances in proper direction).


AI is capable of pocketing but it needs "percentage boost" in order to be bold and function properly (as told here numerous times by Joel and me)!

In 110% vs. 100% of 110% : 100% types of games one can see the pockets being made...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 8
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