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American Tank Production - 5/7/2013 3:56:05 PM   
ny59giants


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I hope this more a thread that is venting than truth, but why do the Americans have so few tanks to rebuild their tank battalions for both the Army and Marines?? I'm in a battle for the recapture of western Australia and will probably lose two Marine tank units in the next few days (June '43). I looked at what I have in the pools and the replacement rates for both the M5 Stuart light tank and M4 Sherman tank.

M5 14/month
M4 28/month

The M5 is the light tank replacement for the M3 that you get at war's beginning. Each of these Marine tank will need 51 M5 and take 3 1/2 months worth of replacements. Meanwhile, the Japanese can rebuild a whole tank division over and over again.

Am I missing something here??

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/7/2013 5:42:06 PM   
koniu

 

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Europe first?

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/7/2013 5:50:57 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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You already have the Marines... why do you need tanks?

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 5/7/2013 5:51:14 PM >


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RE: American Tank Production - 5/7/2013 5:54:09 PM   
Yaab


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Can the Japs destroy M4s in land combat? I guess they need their 75mm field guns to shoot directly at the Shermans for that.

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/7/2013 6:05:58 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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By the time the US fielded M4s, Japan was using suicide "lunge mines"





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RE: American Tank Production - 5/8/2013 12:26:15 AM   
wdolson

 

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Tanks were of marginal value in the island hopping campaign and in the jungles of Burma. The terrain of most of those places was very poor for employing tanks. Small tank units were formed to support where tanks could operate, but on a typical island invasion the number of tanks put ashore would be very small. I read an article a few months back about the tanks employed in the invasion of one of the atolls. I think it was Makin (the actual taking of the island, not the raid). It was the first time Shermans appeared in the Pacific battlefields. I think there were 6 total along with about a dozen light tanks.

Tank production in game reflects the extreme high priority Europe had for tanks. The US tank units in the ETO sucked up most of the supply leaving few for the Pacific or CBI.

The invasion of Australia never happened in the real war. If it had, it's possible more tanks would have been diverted to the Pacific. As Allies you have to make do with what the Allies actually had in the real war instead of what you might need for the situation at hand.

Bill

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/8/2013 2:16:50 AM   
Shellshock


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Can the Japs destroy M4s in land combat? I guess they need their 75mm field guns to shoot directly at the Shermans for that.



The Japanese 47mm anti-tank gun was a pretty effective weapon against Sherman tanks on Okinawa. Always at close range though, which in the tumbled compartmentalized terrain of Okinawa was often the case. They didn't always score a kill, but even disabling a tank might lead it to being abandoned by it's crew. Supposedly, due to heavy tank losses M-26 Pershing tanks were shipped to the island in the late stages of the battle, but arrived to late to take part.

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/8/2013 3:25:26 AM   
PaxMondo


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You get a lot of devices via those transport groups that arrive periodically ... so not just the production figures ...

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/8/2013 8:19:40 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I hope this more a thread that is venting than truth, but why do the Americans have so few tanks to rebuild their tank battalions for both the Army and Marines?? I'm in a battle for the recapture of western Australia and will probably lose two Marine tank units in the next few days (June '43). I looked at what I have in the pools and the replacement rates for both the M5 Stuart light tank and M4 Sherman tank.

M5 14/month
M4 28/month

The M5 is the light tank replacement for the M3 that you get at war's beginning. Each of these Marine tank will need 51 M5 and take 3 1/2 months worth of replacements. Meanwhile, the Japanese can rebuild a whole tank division over and over again.

Am I missing something here??



you won't feel a difference between the M3 and M5 so it won't affect you much, if you haven't completely trashed your USMC tank btn which usually doesn't happen.

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/8/2013 8:23:30 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

You get a lot of devices via those transport groups that arrive periodically ... so not just the production figures ...



US? There is the "AA equipment convoy" that disbands sometime in mid 42 that goes into US pools but thereafter I've only seen supply (which you don't need) and fuel (which you don't need) going to US off map bases. The convoys that bring in reinforcements for the pool are pretty much all Commonwealth so that won't help the USMC.

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/8/2013 10:58:25 PM   
Treetop64


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You get M10s beginning in May. Army M10s, mind you...

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/11/2013 3:33:15 PM   
bigred


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

You already have the Marines... why do you need tanks?



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RE: American Tank Production - 5/11/2013 3:59:43 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Michael,

I have yet to have a M4 even disabled in combat. I guess banzai bayonet charges doesn´t work very well against tanks?

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/12/2013 5:31:23 AM   
crsutton


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Yeah, I would have to say that you are not using them too well. I found Allied tank units to be all but invulnerable unless they were cut off and surrounded. Not trying to be critical as OZ is unique and I did lose two or three tank units there. Might be too late for this but there is not too much difference between the M3 adn M5. So don't upgrade all of your Marine tank units. Leave some with the M3s and you should then have plenty. M4s have not been a problem since they rarely get killed. Same for the M10s and the Jacksons. Biggest problem for me is the Commonwealth units. You have really got to be careful as you just never have enough tanks for them. Many of my units are still fielding The Grant and Lee tanks as there are not many sherman V tanks built. But the Grant and Lee tanks might as well be king tigers vs the Japanese crap boxes that you run into.

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/12/2013 8:34:44 AM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

... But the Grant and Lee tanks might as well be king tigers vs the Japanese crap boxes that you run into.


Which is why Australia kept them as their "cruiser" tank until the end of the war despite them all being delivered in 1942.

The infantry tank role was filled admirably by the Matilda though they were in the process of upgrading them to Churchills when the war ended.



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RE: American Tank Production - 5/12/2013 11:54:50 AM   
JeffK


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And the Brits only started upgrading from Lee/Grant to Sherman in the last campaign in Burma, the 14th Army was usually on the hind teat for everything except Generals.

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/12/2013 1:49:47 PM   
Jim D Burns


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Because of the draconian replacement pools, you need to think of the allied units as a glass hammer. They can hit hard, but you won't be using them again if they get broken. You simply don't have any flexibility to sustain non-historical casualties in game. That's why so many allied players play so cautiously, they simply can't afford to take looses that don't conform to a draconian production system slaved to historical loss rates.

India or Australia gets invaded and you sustain massive non-historical casualties depleting half your standing armies? Tough, you still only get what the allies got historically with no way to make up your massive losses. That's why the most aggressive Japanese players are the best Japanese players. Their play style really digs in to the critical weakness that is the allied replacement pools. Nothing good allied play can do to counter it either, it's a game design weakness.

Jim

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RE: American Tank Production - 5/12/2013 3:11:59 PM   
rms1pa

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Because of the draconian replacement pools, you need to think of the allied units as a glass hammer. They can hit hard, but you won't be using them again if they get broken. You simply don't have any flexibility to sustain non-historical casualties in game. That's why so many allied players play so cautiously, they simply can't afford to take looses that don't conform to a draconian production system slaved to historical loss rates.

India or Australia gets invaded and you sustain massive non-historical casualties depleting half your standing armies? Tough, you still only get what the allies got historically with no way to make up your massive losses. That's why the most aggressive Japanese players are the best Japanese players. Their play style really digs in to the critical weakness that is the allied replacement pools. Nothing good allied play can do to counter it either, it's a game design weakness.

Jim

yes,yes,yes.

AFBs only fight for what you Must. fight for what you must. use rested prepared troops. if you do a Sir Robin
wait till those half trained partialy equipped divisions are fully recovered and trained.on the attack a month of target prep and isolation with overwhelming strength of combined arms. 2 divisions are better than one 3 is even better.plus ARTY and Tanks. no one goes alone.

pay for the best admin skills you can get. this is undervalued by many but plays an important part in the recovery of a half disabled unit.

look at the unit. a 23 exp/17 moral unit needs to be moved to supply and rested with good leadership and admin. out of bomber range.

shoestring operations are for the LUCKY only.

rms/pa






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