Killer Tank of the 80's

[CapnDarwin]

Which of the following tanks would have been the most efficient tank killing machine of the Third World War? And why?

Tank versus tank. Best kill ratio at the end of the conflict. [8D]

[Mad Russian]

One vote for the Leo 2 but no comment about why it was the one that was voted for.

I'm thinking we need a bit of clarification about what 'most efficient tank killing machine' means. Does that mean tank vs tank, overall tank kills by that type by the time the war is over, kill ratio's...what exactly are we looking for here?

Good Hunting.

MR

[wodin]

Whilst checking out these tanks I came across this..it made me chuckle..

"Similar to every British tank since the Centurion, and most other British AFVs, Challenger 2 contains a boiling vessel (BV) also known as a kettle or bivvie for water which can be used to brew tea, produce other hot beverages and heat boil-in-the-bag meals contained in ration packs.[9] This BV requirement is general for armoured vehicles of the British Armed Forces, and is unique to the armed forces of the UK."

[CapnDarwin]

@ Wodin - That is funny. I guess we need to model a tea break in the command cycle. [:D]

[Mad Russian]

When I trained with BAOR in the mid 70's that was absolutely true! And yes, tea time would stop the war during training exercises! [&o]

Good Hunting.

MR

[cbelva]

Funny, we didn't get tea time when I trained with the West German Army [:(] in the 80s.

[Hexagon]

Leo2, the best combination of armor, firepower and movility... and the 2nd one, M1, be a killer after copy all it can from Leo2 [:D]

Challenger is for me the 3rd option but i doubt between it and T-80U

[Mad Russian]

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about using WWII tanks.

Most tank kills per type. PzIII took out the entire 1940 Western Allied tank park as well as over 17,000 Soviet tanks in the first 6 months of the war in Russia. By far the most successful tank killer of WWII.

Highest tank vs tank kill ratio. This is always in debate but the Tiger I usually takes that prize.

Tank vs Tank killer would more than likely be voted the Panther, because of it's tremendous combination of firepower, protection and mobility.

Best tank of WWII usually is a toss up between the Panther, T-34 and Sherman for varying reasons.

Which ever tank you choose as your own personal 'best' will be determined by one of the same criteria used to describe the WWII 'Best Tank' title winner. Depends on the criteria used as to who the winner is.

Good Hunting.

MR

[CapnDarwin]

Let's go with your Tank versus tank killer basis. Which is the Panther of WW3?

[Mad Russian]

If it is tank on tank it can't be anything other than the latest versions of each nations tank park.

That leaves out the T-72 and T-64, as well as the M1(IP), Leo I and the Chieftain II.

That would leave you with the T-80U, M1A1, Challenger 1 and Leopard 2.

Here are the in-game data sources for the 4 tanks.

Because of the Gulf Wars there is a public image that Western tanks are far better than their Soviet counterparts. Nothing could be further from the truth. Taking T-72's crewed with Arabs is nothing like challenging T-80's with Soviet crews in them. NATO would find it hard going against the modern Soviet tanks with quality crews. It's interesting to note that the M1 Abrams has the weakest armor of the 4 main contenders in a battle for Germany. That would not bode well for US tankers.

Good Hunting.

MR

[CapnDarwin]

MR, you will want to flip the M1IP out for the M1A1 with the 120mm gun. And something looks way off with the Soviet 125mm AP value. I will look into that Sunday.

[Hexagon]

Well, you use M1A1 that is the improved version with the 120mm sure its superior to the Leo2A1 but this Leo2 was the competitor of the M1 with 105mm, when appear the M1A1 germans have the Leo2A4 with similar gun to M1A1 and even better armor than A1.

Soviet tanks are not bad, allways have good numbers in protection, movility and firepower BUT they sacrifice important areas to have these numbers and they are as vehicle inferior in general... to have good armor they decide create a small tank this affect internal space that made 2 critical things, one is increase the chance that a pen hit something critical and crew lose effiency when the fight is long apart this finally they change the loader for a autoload system that is slower than a human loader and load less ammo... well, they are not planed to survive a lot and lose one tank is less critical for soviets than for NATO.

I find the point in T series but they are average tanks for average crews, nations that have armored forces as "elite" units find T series not very usefull for they armored "way of life".

Is hard find a relation between WWII and WWIII tanks maybe because west tanks are something like Tiger II meets med movility and soviets have something like KV-13 but mixing T-34/85 with IS-2.

For me when i compare tanks to decide what is better i allways do the same, ask "in what tank i want be in a fight???" thats solve all in tank by tank comparison other question is in a superior level where you are not in the tank and command them, here is a question of tastes and i dont see a great diference between soviet or west, trade quality for numbers.

PD: a little question... the game covers the first weeks in war no??? but in the very last battles you can see WP and NATO reserve units??? is something i allways dislike in Tiller MC, you are unable to use the 2nd and 3rd line reserves.

[CapnDarwin]

Not sure what I did wrong but a number of tank gun APs were messed up. I fixed them last night after going back through various data sources. That is the beauty of beta testing. Find the bugs early. Revised data files in the next update. [8D]

[Hexagon]

A little question, gun doesnt have an accurancy value like in SPBMT??? ooo and what means (AD) in weapons???

Thanks.

PD: dont worry, i edit an OOB for a game, test it, search bugs etc etc only to find a wrong value when i start playing it in a team game 3 VS 3

[CapnDarwin]

AD = Air Defense capable. There are a number of additional factors in the database for accuracy, fire control, range finding, etc. Not all of them show. In the case of tank guns the accuracy value of the "projectile" is low being unguided, but fire control and other systems of the tank itself give the weapon its final hit/kill values.

[Mad Russian]

Here are the correct values for the tanks.

Considering gun penetration vs front armor and mobility it looks to me like the T-80U is set to be the tank killer in WWIII.

We'll see if that holds true.

In any case my vote is for the T-80U to be the best AFV for tank vs tank combat.

Good Hunting.

MR

[CapnDarwin]

There are a few things that hurt the T-80U. No thermal sight. And the fire control and stability is not on par with its NATO counterparts. It does come at you in bigger numbers though. [;)]

[Mad Russian]

There are some things that help the T-80 in Germany though. Fog, the sun at dusk/dawn, it has a thermal/optical jammer, is a small target, with the shorter engagement ranges in Europe it won't be at a disadvantage with optics, it being smaller makes it easier to maneuver in the tight confines of many European villages.

Considering the Abrams much weaker defensive armor that's going to add up to trouble for NATO.

All in all, the T-80U will be a formidable foe.

As with most peacetime arms race there is no weapons system that is heads and shoulders above the rest. In short, I don't think there would have been an equivalent to the Panther in WWIII.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Richie61]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Leo2, the best combination of armor, firepower and movility... and the 2nd one, M1, be a killer after copy all it can from Leo2 [:D]

Challenger is for me the 3rd option but i doubt between it and T-80U

I have lined them both up in Shock Force and the M1 always wins! [:'(] - LOL!

[Mad Russian]

And there you have it. [&o]

Good Hunting.

MR