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RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/29/2013 7:05:41 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 4383
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel




I'm referring to the former Governor of your neighboring state, Mark Sanford. He had this story he was hiking the Appalachian trail when he was actually in Argentina cheating on his wife.

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Post #: 31
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/29/2013 8:08:57 PM   
USS America


Posts: 16075
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

<snip>

The AE Forumites discuss topics like "lost loves" and "who's really responsible for the loss at Gettysburg" intelligently and with good humor and grace, seldom if ever uttering a harsh word.

<snip>



Canoe, you're confused. Gettysburg was a resounding victory!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 32
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/29/2013 8:34:41 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 1441
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LST Express

Could give a hoot about the price, I love the game. The forum is interesting most of the time too.


+1

(in reply to LST Express)
Post #: 33
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/29/2013 9:49:12 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 16466
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I just wrote a $17,000 check to the IRS, $7,000 to the county, $1,500 to Allstate and $212 every month the HOA. I don't ever recall having warm fuzzies about any of those "investments". On the other hand, AE is the best wargame ever invented and I have spent at least 1000 hours enjoying the thing. I even bought 2 copies because my computer crashed and I did not want to wait 3 days to get a new copy of the game.

That works out to less than 17 cents per hour. I just spent the equivalent of the purchase price of the game to go deep sea fishing. I got seasick and didn't catch anything.

What kind of loser does one have to be to complain about the cost of a game online? Really?

I will lay cash money that half of the complainers are sales clerks at head shops and the domestic ones are probably texting their complainst from their Obamaphones.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 34
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 12:10:30 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 4383
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


What kind of loser does one have to be to complain about the cost of a game online? Really?


Well, I am jealous. But don't feel too bad for me. My lot in life is looking up. I'm moving into a larger cardboard box and I'm adding a sunroom made of newspapers.

_____________________________

Darwin has his eye on me.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 35
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 12:29:44 AM   
Skyros


Posts: 1272
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline
Interesting tidbit from that discussion.

As was explained at release, the reference to the tutorial was an editing error. The 300+ page manual, largest we've still printed to date (until World in Flames is released), is there for you though. That said, a new manual is actually in the works for AE, and hopefully will be ready before the next reprint.

AE was a community project from start to finish, so I think it's fair to say that without some very talented and skilled members of the commmunity, AE would not even exist. While we at Matrix and 2by3 love WITP at that point 2by3 did not have time to revisit WITP on their own. I think the number of folks who are playing it speaks to the fact that it can be learned just fine. Figuring out how to play it is not that hard - playing it well is much more challenging and experience and discussion with other players is the best aid there. A new tutorial or larger manual would be of limited use, there's only so much that can really be explained without practice.

Regards,

- Erik



< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 4/29/2013 6:27:59 PM >

_____________________________

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Director of Product Development and Business Relations


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 36
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 12:36:20 AM   
MineSweeper


Posts: 652
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Nags Head, NC
Status: offline
AE best game - best forum.....nuff said

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(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 37
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 12:41:29 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12813
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-NE-IL ?
Status: offline
I'd happily pay 3 times as much for an new version. And am very happy with the price of the current. Anybody notice that the card board counter version that this game was based on sells for over $400!

I rarely pay attention to the general fourms, unless directed there by my fellow WITP fans. Sometimes when I visit them I feel my IQ dropping just by reading them.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to MineSweeper)
Post #: 38
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 12:44:50 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 16466
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


What kind of loser does one have to be to complain about the cost of a game online? Really?


Well, I am jealous. But don't feel too bad for me. My lot in life is looking up. I'm moving into a larger cardboard box and I'm adding a sunroom made of newspapers.


Oh, that sounds lovely! Maybe some M C Escher prints to round things out?

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 39
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 12:48:09 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 16466
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I forgot to mention the educational value of AE. For example, I never knew that Aden was an 80x40 mile walled fortress with an absolutely lovely 500 mile long reflecting pond!

I'd very much like to visit.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 40
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 2:19:01 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2186
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Northern Virginia
Status: offline
+1
quote:

ORIGINAL: MineSweeper

AE best game - best forum.....nuff said



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(in reply to MineSweeper)
Post #: 41
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 2:27:33 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5621
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

That said, a new manual is actually in the works for AE, and hopefully will be ready before the next reprint.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development and Business Relations


Didn't know that, good news. I hope they offer the manual separately.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 4/30/2013 2:28:12 AM >


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 42
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 2:51:03 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 4383
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


What kind of loser does one have to be to complain about the cost of a game online? Really?


Well, I am jealous. But don't feel too bad for me. My lot in life is looking up. I'm moving into a larger cardboard box and I'm adding a sunroom made of newspapers.


Oh, that sounds lovely! Maybe some M C Escher prints to round things out?



No such luck. Every once in a while MOMA sends an agent around to look at my graffiti on the inside of my box. When there's no room for any more they give me a bigger box and a new set of crayons. The things I do for culture. I will be expecting you for tea at 3 pm tomorrow, Mandrake.

_____________________________

Darwin has his eye on me.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 43
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 5:12:44 AM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 14519
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


What kind of loser does one have to be to complain about the cost of a game online? Really?


Well, I am jealous. But don't feel too bad for me. My lot in life is looking up. I'm moving into a larger cardboard box and I'm adding a sunroom made of newspapers.


Oh, that sounds lovely! Maybe some M C Escher prints to round things out?



No such luck. Every once in a while MOMA sends an agent around to look at my graffiti on the inside of my box. When there's no room for any more they give me a bigger box and a new set of crayons. The things I do for culture. I will be expecting you for tea at 3 pm tomorrow, Mandrake.

Bah, that's nonsense - newspapers! Everybody knows that reptiles need direct sunlight.

_____________________________

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(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 44
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 7:23:33 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 17196
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

1. There is a small group of regulars who dominate the postings in the General Discussion forum.

2. That small group is smaller than the regulars who post on the AE forum and more often than not their posts are content free zones. There is very little cross forum postings.

3. AE regulars clearly spend time playing AE. For many of the General Discussion regulars, despite their often boisterous claims, it is not obvious that they actually spend much time playing games. Very few seem to be interested in the more complex Matrix games, nor do they seem to apply themselves to coping with complexity.

4. Far too many over there just like to bump up their post numbers. Consequently they love to repeat ad infinitum sterile positions, tilting at windmills (as if the current Slitherine management is going to change any of the practices which they have run for the last decade), and availing themselves of being unnecessarily abusive to each other which they may think is humorous but in fact is not at all.

5. People come to the AE forum for assistance in how to play the game. Newbies generally receive prompt and polite attention. Most threads here are content full. This all sets a certain unspoken standard which is generally adhered to whereas there is no focus on the General Discussion forum.

6. I'm certain most of the AE regulars have a view on Sitherine's pricing policy. But it is a pointless subject to discuss. AE regulars don't regularly splurge out on buying too many other Matrix products per annum. The unit cost is high but the cost per gaming hour is incredibly low so what is the point of complaining. The amortisation cost of AE is incredible low; those on the General Discussion forum who complain have much higher amortisation costs because of the nature of the games they purchase and their too easy cast off approach.

7. I've tried to follow Slitherine's pricing arguments and they are just plain wrong but their error will not be obvious to them for several years. They conflate initial stock pricing with back catalogue pricing. They fail to directly address links to other game developers/publishers who demonstrate their product life cycle revenues which contradict Slitherine's position. Those are links to other so called "niche" markets/products too. No other industry operates how Slitherine claims market demand and supply operates. No marketing class supports Slitherine's assertions. But ultimately it is all irrelevant. If I want a game of the standard of AE I have no option but to come here (hint hint Symon there would be a true niche market for a commercial version of DaBabes) and because of the factors mentioned in point 6, the cost is acceptable.

8. And no, I'm not really interested in going over the same sterile arguments re pricing here.

Alfred
warspite1

Thanks for this fascinating insight into the world of the General Discussion Forum. You will be amazed to realise that some of us who frequent that forum can actually read. On second thoughts I suspect you knew that and can therefore only assume that you don't care how insulting your post was; full of sweeping generalisations and untruths.

quote:

and more often than not their posts are content free zones.


Really? Or may be you are confusing a bit of light-hearted fun with a content free zone.

Speaking for myself I have begun a few threads that have proved of interest and I think describing them as "content free zones" is unfair. Note: we are talking about a General Discussion Forum; i.e. General topics - not just war and wargames. Some of the threads that I have started (and are still going strong) are:

- Latest film/documentary/program you are watching
- Latest Book you are reading
- There is a football (soccer) thread and a Motor Racing thread.
- A music thread (not started by me) is one of the most popular.

Personally I have got a lot from these - the book thread and the music thread in particular where I have read/listened to books/music I would not ordinarily have done.

Admittedly the Australian Beauties thread CAN be largely described as a content free zone - but you may recall that when I brought WWII naval vessels into that thread, the response (with the exception of a few WITPAE regulars - for which much thanks) was staggeringly silent. Indeed one WITP-AE forum member decided to set up his own thread on the same subject here. Plain rude.

quote:

There is very little cross forum postings.


Well that is simply not true of the regulars such as myself, Orm and parusski to name just three. There are others.

quote:

For many of the General Discussion regulars, despite their often boisterous claims, it is not obvious that they actually spend much time playing games.


Thanks again, but wrong. parusski, Orm and myself have been/are beta testers for games. We are all players of a number of Matrix games.

quote:

Very few seem to be interested in the more complex Matrix games, nor do they seem to apply themselves to coping with complexity.


Please re-read that sentence and tell me you are not embarrassed by it. Could you be more condescending? Even if that was true, so what if complex games are not for everyone? BTW I don't think World In Flames is exactly beer and pretzels.... nor is WITE.

quote:

Far too many over there just like to bump up their post numbers


You know that do you? You would never raise the subject of that "heinous" crime with members of The Thread would you?

quote:

People come to the AE forum for assistance in how to play the game. Newbies generally receive prompt and polite attention. Most threads here are content full. This all sets a certain unspoken standard which is generally adhered to whereas there is no focus on the General Discussion forum.


Yes I would agree that in general this is a very, very good forum and this is one of five that I regularly visit. There is a great knowledge base here and I have had many a question answered by some of the more helpful people and had some good debates. I only got my sig line thanks to help provided by guys on this forum. However, this forum too has its ..er... "characters"....


Just to finish. Maybe one or two would consider visiting the GD forum occasionally. I am sure your input would be welcomed. There are a few that do already from time to time and their presence is very much appreciated.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/30/2013 7:49:47 AM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 45
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 7:54:17 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 17196
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Re: the General Forum-I could take it or leave it. There are a few pleasant chaps. One of them, I'll just call him HMS Resolution1, is a very pleasant chap. Another, I'll call him Permanutsy, is also entertaining. Their banter makes the General Forum worth dipping an occasional toe into. 90% of the General Forum stuff is just tripe.


warspite1

An R-class???? Oh CB you cut me real deep

_____________________________

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Post #: 46
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 7:55:16 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 17196
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I rarely pay attention to the general fourms, unless directed there by my fellow WITP fans. Sometimes when I visit them I feel my IQ dropping just by reading them.
warspite1



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




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Post #: 47
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 5:11:00 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 1981
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline
I've never spent any real time on any of the other forums, so I am not competent to comment on them. WITP/AE forums has had a couple of people that I have used the green button on, but not many.

As for the price, I have no problem with paying for quality. If AE was not the best game and best supported game and most historical game all in one package, it would not cost as much because it wouldn't worth it. With the time I've spent on this game, I'd say it is underpriced. The mmore money they make the more likely they are to continue to produce great games and perhaps make another gem like AE.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 48
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 7:09:45 PM   
sventhebold


Posts: 288
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: MN The greening fields
Status: offline
+1

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Post #: 49
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 8:05:51 PM   
House Stark

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 4/30/2011
Status: offline
WITP: AE was by far the most expensive game I've ever bought, except perhaps Civilization 4 with all of its expansions. I have no idea how much time I've spent playing AE, but it's definitely in my top 3 games as far as that statistic is concerned. And I've only had it for two years. So yes, worth every penny.

(in reply to mullk)
Post #: 50
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 8:12:44 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 4383
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109
WITP/AE forums has had a couple of people that I have used the green button on, but not many.


It's not easy being green.

_____________________________

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Post #: 51
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 9:55:03 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1968
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
.... you don't care how insulting your post was; full of sweeping generalisations and untruths.....

Just to finish. Maybe one or two would consider visiting the GD forum occasionally. I am sure your input would be welcomed. There are a few that do already from time to time and their presence is very much appreciated.


Warspite1, in regard to your opening, wow you hit hard! But is it really constructive to do so?

And in relation to your last point, I simply don't know how people can find the time to keep up with all the stuff that goes on here let alone cross deck to other areas of the forum. There are only 24 hours in a day and I do like to spend some of them with wife and friends! But I'll try to peek into the GD forum as you have tweaked my interest. I for one can not even begin to generalize about the content of any other forum given that I've almost never been there! Wish me luck... Hal

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 52
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 4/30/2013 10:12:14 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 17196
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
.... you don't care how insulting your post was; full of sweeping generalisations and untruths.....

Just to finish. Maybe one or two would consider visiting the GD forum occasionally. I am sure your input would be welcomed. There are a few that do already from time to time and their presence is very much appreciated.


Warspite1, in regard to your opening, wow you hit hard! But is it really constructive to do so?

And in relation to your last point, I simply don't know how people can find the time to keep up with all the stuff that goes on here let alone cross deck to other areas of the forum. There are only 24 hours in a day and I do like to spend some of them with wife and friends! But I'll try to peek into the GD forum as you have tweaked my interest. I for one can not even begin to generalize about the content of any other forum given that I've almost never been there! Wish me luck... Hal
warspite1

Constructive? Probably not, but it does reflect how strongly I feel about that post. If you think I was over the top, imagine how you would feel if I posted a similar comment about the WITP-AE forumites on the GD forum? I suspect you would be a tad miffed to at being so unfairly labelled.

The post was totally uncalled for.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 53
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 5/1/2013 3:38:50 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 4383
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Bah, that's nonsense - newspapers! Everybody knows that reptiles need direct sunlight.


You misunderstand, the newspaper is only the floor of my new sunroom. I also have a deck, it happens to double as the fire escape for another building. Ask Oscar the Grouch. He thinks my digs are rather palatial.

_____________________________

Darwin has his eye on me.

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Post #: 54
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 5/1/2013 3:44:52 AM   
JeffK


Posts: 5131
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


What kind of loser does one have to be to complain about the cost of a game online? Really?


Well, I am jealous. But don't feel too bad for me. My lot in life is looking up. I'm moving into a larger cardboard box and I'm adding a sunroom made of newspapers.


Cardboard box, bottom of River?

Luxury!!!!!

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 55
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 5/1/2013 3:59:23 AM   
JeffK


Posts: 5131
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From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!
Status: offline
While i think the pricing thread on the GD Forum got a bit over the top, I support Warspite's reaction to the post from Alfred ( and love the one straight after)

I love WITPAE and would pay more for a modernised engine and a WITPII.

A lot of what was said about the pricing is that Matrix/Slitherine (are they the same thing?) have continued to charge full price for an old game in a new label with promises of improvements to come, later, sometime down the track plus the ability to purchase the game cheaper elsewhere.

What would the reaction be if PACWAR or UV came out in a new wrapper and not much else changing and the price remaining the same as it was on original release?

Unfortunately, Matrix/Slitherine dont get out many original games, around half, maybe more, have been taken over from other retailers.





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Post #: 56
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 5/1/2013 4:30:43 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41344
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
It's all Slitherine now.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 57
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 5/1/2013 4:40:52 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 3088
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline
I think I saved five grand in bar tabs.

(in reply to mullk)
Post #: 58
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 5/1/2013 5:41:19 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5621
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It's all Slitherine now.

Yup. Still watching to see what that means .... undoubtedly there will some changes, but which direction?

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 59
RE: Off Topic: WITP-AE forum members don't... - 5/1/2013 7:21:51 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4505
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
I think it will more and more focus on "beer and pretzels" games that sells to a bigger market (like Panzer Corps) and earns bigger revenues.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 60
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