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Would you accelerate B6N1 ?

 
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Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/26/2013 8:34:33 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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I am looking for opinions on the B6N1 Jill.

It is obviously better than B5N2, but is it that better? to a the point of accelerating?





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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/26/2013 9:33:56 PM   
Chickenboy


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The B6N1 is marginally better than the B5N2, but the real 'meat' behind the upgrade is the furtherance along the B6N chain. Yes, the chain of Jills is worth researching and yes, upgrading to available B6N1 from B5N2 is worthwhile. So's upgrading from B6N1 to B6N2 and so on.


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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 4:48:46 AM   
PaxMondo


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The B6N is only better because of the cruising speed which impacts coordination. The B5N is SO slow that even with the A6M3 you are suffering coordination penalties.

B6N is no lightning bolt either though. Its cruise speed is 60kts slower than the D4Y. You really need the B7A to get decent cruise and attack speed. Still the B6N is 40 kts faster than the B5N, so it is worth the research.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 6:11:44 AM   
MineSweeper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury


I am looking for opinions on the B6N1 Jill.

It is obviously better than B5N2, but is it that better? to a the point of accelerating?






B6N2 is better IMO - faster, better range, and has a SR1 vs 2

whoops - thought you were comparing the B6N2 to the B6N1

< Message edited by MineSweeper -- 4/27/2013 6:14:47 AM >


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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 12:15:34 PM   
GreyJoy


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The Jill is WAY better than the Kate. And the greatest improvement is that it has a normal range that allows you CVs to attack with torpedoes at 8 hexes... something that can really change the balance of a CV-CV battle

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 3:10:20 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The Jill is WAY better than the Kate. And the greatest improvement is that it has a normal range that allows you CVs to attack with torpedoes at 8 hexes... something that can really change the balance of a CV-CV battle

True, just remember that the allies start getting the Helldiver which can hit you with a 1000 lb bomb at 9 hexes at about the same time. So after 5/43 the allies have a 1 hex advantage on you in any CV engagement. That's why I don't consider the Jill that big of a deal. Better yes. But it isn't the difference maker that the Grace is. Grace changes everything in your CV setup. Assuming you still have CV's when you get it.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 4:42:15 PM   
1EyedJacks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The Jill is WAY better than the Kate. And the greatest improvement is that it has a normal range that allows you CVs to attack with torpedoes at 8 hexes... something that can really change the balance of a CV-CV battle

True, just remember that the allies start getting the Helldiver which can hit you with a 1000 lb bomb at 9 hexes at about the same time. So after 5/43 the allies have a 1 hex advantage on you in any CV engagement. That's why I don't consider the Jill that big of a deal. Better yes. But it isn't the difference maker that the Grace is. Grace changes everything in your CV setup. Assuming you still have CV's when you get it.



Ahhh - but that's why you want to advance the Jill - 2 get that range advantage B4 U lose it... <grin>

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 5:10:44 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The Jill is WAY better than the Kate. And the greatest improvement is that it has a normal range that allows you CVs to attack with torpedoes at 8 hexes... something that can really change the balance of a CV-CV battle

True, just remember that the allies start getting the Helldiver which can hit you with a 1000 lb bomb at 9 hexes at about the same time. So after 5/43 the allies have a 1 hex advantage on you in any CV engagement. That's why I don't consider the Jill that big of a deal. Better yes. But it isn't the difference maker that the Grace is. Grace changes everything in your CV setup. Assuming you still have CV's when you get it.


Afaik Allied CVs have an hardcoded attacking range of 7 hexes

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 5:13:06 PM   
Captain Cruft


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Don't ignore the B6N2a Jill. It has a radar which makes it potentially very useful for night torpedo attacks. No other 1E bomber has it.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 5:15:05 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Afaik Allied CVs have an hardcoded attacking range of 7 hexes


Really? Hmm, it would be very nice if that were true. Can anyone support or disprove it? I need to keep a closer eye on Allied CV attack ranges.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 5:45:35 PM   
GreyJoy


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Pretty sure it is correct.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 5:52:37 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The Jill is WAY better than the Kate. And the greatest improvement is that it has a normal range that allows you CVs to attack with torpedoes at 8 hexes... something that can really change the balance of a CV-CV battle

True, just remember that the allies start getting the Helldiver which can hit you with a 1000 lb bomb at 9 hexes at about the same time. So after 5/43 the allies have a 1 hex advantage on you in any CV engagement. That's why I don't consider the Jill that big of a deal. Better yes. But it isn't the difference maker that the Grace is. Grace changes everything in your CV setup. Assuming you still have CV's when you get it.


Afaik Allied CVs have an hardcoded attacking range of 7 hexes



Even though I have not read the manual, I too have seen it said by highly informed sources.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 6:03:25 PM   
witpqs

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The Jill is WAY better than the Kate. And the greatest improvement is that it has a normal range that allows you CVs to attack with torpedoes at 8 hexes... something that can really change the balance of a CV-CV battle

True, just remember that the allies start getting the Helldiver which can hit you with a 1000 lb bomb at 9 hexes at about the same time. So after 5/43 the allies have a 1 hex advantage on you in any CV engagement. That's why I don't consider the Jill that big of a deal. Better yes. But it isn't the difference maker that the Grace is. Grace changes everything in your CV setup. Assuming you still have CV's when you get it.


Afaik Allied CVs have an hardcoded attacking range of 7 hexes

Yup: 7 hexes for Allied carrier launched planes against ships; 8 hexes for Japanese carrier launched planes against ships. Note that the range can increase for experienced pilots/leaders. I don't know the formula, but if the die rolls are made, a groups or groups can go farther for a given mission.

Note that there is no such range limit for carrier launched planes flying against land targets.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 6:06:26 PM   
GreyJoy


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That's where the combo J4D4 (with 500kg bombs at extended range) and the B6N2 (with torps up to 10 hexes) really comes into play.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 7:55:04 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Don't ignore the B6N2a Jill. It has a radar which makes it potentially very useful for night torpedo attacks. No other 1E bomber has it.

device not active until '45

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 7:56:28 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[Yup: 7 hexes for Allied carrier launched planes against ships; 8 hexes for Japanese carrier launched planes against ships.


You're right, I found the conversation that C&G had with Michael just prior to his departure. I had thought this removed. Oh well. Unfortunate feature leftover from old code and not within the AE scope to fix. Sad.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 4/27/2013 8:11:36 PM >


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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/27/2013 10:13:16 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[Yup: 7 hexes for Allied carrier launched planes against ships; 8 hexes for Japanese carrier launched planes against ships.


You're right, I found the conversation that C&G had with Michael just prior to his departure. I had thought this removed. Oh well. Unfortunate feature leftover from old code and not within the AE scope to fix. Sad.


Although JFB's vivaciously agrue the borkness of 4E's and strat bombing and/or ground bombing .. there seems to be a strange quietness about this little game feature... yet no historical record supports such an advantage Although the Allies Lauched a late afternoon raid at around 8 hexes during the battle of the Phlillpine Sea. For those that want to argue .. 335 miles distance at time of launch plus steaming at 20 knots west for the one hour plus to intercept making it about 8 hexes ... (7.71) ..

Yet the JFB's do the 8 hex unanswered strike with glee ...

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/28/2013 12:13:49 AM   
MineSweeper


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We need all the help that we can get

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/28/2013 1:25:33 AM   
witpqs

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[Yup: 7 hexes for Allied carrier launched planes against ships; 8 hexes for Japanese carrier launched planes against ships.


You're right, I found the conversation that C&G had with Michael just prior to his departure. I had thought this removed. Oh well. Unfortunate feature leftover from old code and not within the AE scope to fix. Sad.


Although JFB's vivaciously agrue the borkness of 4E's and strat bombing and/or ground bombing .. there seems to be a strange quietness about this little game feature... yet no historical record supports such an advantage Although the Allies Lauched a late afternoon raid at around 8 hexes during the battle of the Phlillpine Sea. For those that want to argue .. 335 miles distance at time of launch plus steaming at 20 knots west for the one hour plus to intercept making it about 8 hexes ... (7.71) ..

Yet the JFB's do the 8 hex unanswered strike with glee ...

I recall there being much argument about the feature, but I do not recall any statement from developers that the feature was in error, or anything implying that indirectly by saying it was out of scope to remove it. I remember having the impression that the developers (as a group) stood by it. That feature doesn't bother me.

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RE: Would you accelerate B6N1 ? - 4/28/2013 3:15:02 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[Yup: 7 hexes for Allied carrier launched planes against ships; 8 hexes for Japanese carrier launched planes against ships.


You're right, I found the conversation that C&G had with Michael just prior to his departure. I had thought this removed. Oh well. Unfortunate feature leftover from old code and not within the AE scope to fix. Sad.


Although JFB's vivaciously agrue the borkness of 4E's and strat bombing and/or ground bombing .. there seems to be a strange quietness about this little game feature... yet no historical record supports such an advantage Although the Allies Lauched a late afternoon raid at around 8 hexes during the battle of the Phlillpine Sea. For those that want to argue .. 335 miles distance at time of launch plus steaming at 20 knots west for the one hour plus to intercept making it about 8 hexes ... (7.71) ..

Yet the JFB's do the 8 hex unanswered strike with glee ...

I recall there being much argument about the feature, but I do not recall any statement from developers that the feature was in error, or anything implying that indirectly by saying it was out of scope to remove it. I remember having the impression that the developers (as a group) stood by it. That feature doesn't bother me.

If you go back and read the original threads you might have a different view. It was put in explicitly by Gary and the dev's were fairly mum about it. There was a LOT of discussion within the community, but nothing changed. Ergo my conclusion that it was out of scope.

No mention about why it was put in, so I'm guessing play balance. Which is ok, but this one has no work around. You can't HR it like you can other IJ gimme's. For me, that is why it is sad.

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