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Maps, maps and more maps.

 
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Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 2:35:57 PM   
Mad Russian


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This is the thread to discuss, you guessed it, all things maps.

Good Hunting.

MR

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 2:40:07 PM   
Mad Russian


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One question was about the ability to see elevation differences.

The basic ground hexes are color coded for the different elevations. The terrain has been sculpted to show where the elevation changes occur. Meaning that the forest is not applied in a single indistinguishable blob over various hill masses.

You will also only find fields at levels 1 and 2. Things like that were used to help you determine where terrain elevations might be changing with a glance simply at the map itself.

Here is a close up of a section of the map showing different terrain elevations and how I did the terrain sculpting.

Good Hunting.

MR






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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/26/2013 2:41:49 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 2:53:31 PM   
Hexagon

 

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Ummm do you think in add a hex border to mark diferent elevations??? in Tiller games it works fine to help see elevations with zoom out...

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 3:07:02 PM   
Mad Russian


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We thought about it. In the end we thought that a greater number of maps outweighed all the time stealing little things that could be done to the maps. That was on the list when we started but as we played on them we found they are very functional the way they currently are.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 3:53:59 PM   
Mad Russian


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These maps were created in a multi-step process that involves going to Google Earth for the information concerning the area of the map. Getting elevations, road net, urban, cultivated and forested areas identified. Then I transferred that information to HexDraw and created the map. Rob then to the maps I made and had the game create the in game information about the map. Which shows hex obstructions, etc.

Capn said once that the FPG maps were a labor of love. That he literally drew those maps by hand. These maps are labors of love as well. I hand placed the terrain in every single hex on these maps. In some cases I redid maps multiple times to get them right.

The maps are 500 meter representations of actual terrain in Germany. Many of these same maps could be used to recreate WWII scenarios for the battles in those locations.

The nations orders of battles don't change much in a week. So, to keep from having scenarios get to much of a sameness about them it was important that they all be different in some way. That way is generally the map you are fighting on. Each map is so different as to be almost unbelievable that they sometimes have overlapping parts of other maps on them.

You may find yourself with roughly the same equipment mix in many battles but you will be fighting a vastly different fight in each of our scenarios.

The battle area covered is roughly 15x20km. There is normally lots of room to maneuver. How you bring your forces to bear is determined greatly by the terrain you are moving through and fighting in.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/26/2013 3:56:35 PM >


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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 4:06:31 PM   
Capn Darwin


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To clarify, the FPG maps were hand drawn and looked awesome, but it was not my hand doing them. Rob may remember who did them.

I am guilty for the map art elements, markers, skin, and other graphics items in this game. I am not a graphics artist by trade. Only necessity. I'm positive others will make better looking content down the road.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 4:20:09 PM   
Mad Russian


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Since Capn created the graphics for these maps I've been working on learning how to do graphics myself. In the future I may be able to do the graphics and maps without relying on the other team members. That will free them up to do what they do best. Create the game you are playing!!!

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 10:03:46 PM   
Mad Russian


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This map has two river valleys plus forested ridge lines.






Each area of hexes that has elevation changes has had the forest sculpted around it for ease of determination. Different types of trees can also be seen where elevation changes occur.

Good Hunting.

MR

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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/26/2013 10:06:04 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 10:08:57 PM   
Mad Russian


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Here is a closeup of the forest sculpting for roads and elevation changes.

Good Hunting.

MR




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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 10:13:39 PM   
Mad Russian


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I was as faithful to rivers and road nets as I could be. That makes for some interesting terrain features.

Bridges are extremely important even with many units being amphibious. It takes time to cross a body of water with amphibious movement. Much more time than going by road and bridge...if there is a bridge when you get there.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/26/2013 10:17:12 PM   
Mad Russian


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You will find out there is a reason battles are fought where they are.

Here is a 6 point road intersection that connects to five different bridges. Think this intersection might be important at some time during the battle?

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/4/2013 2:58:37 PM >


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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 1:30:02 AM   
BASB


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So each colour shade is how many metres in elevation. Is there different bridge classifications? This would makesome bridges far more important than others.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 1:43:39 AM   
Mad Russian


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There are two classes of bridges. Those with Victory Points on them and those without.

Then of course there are the bridges that you can drive over and those that have been blown.

There are no other classes of bridges in the game.

Elevation differences are between 50 and 100 meters. Sometimes it's difficult to determine within a 500 meter hex the height. In those cases I look at the general lay of the terrain and try to make the height 'fit'.



Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/27/2013 1:49:50 AM >


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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 1:50:57 AM   
Capn Darwin


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Right now as MR said, a bridge is a bridge. Big enough to be used by armored vehicles. We will look at more variations when we add more detailed engineering operations down the road.

Elevations I will need to go back and look, but it varies a bit based on the map and how it was made.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 2:19:11 AM   
Mad Russian


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Another tool for checking elevation is to display the level of elevation on the map.

Good Hunting.

MR




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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 10:34:24 AM   
wodin


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Elevation looks fine to me..and after doing some map mods I know how difficult it is trying to get the right shades and make it look good...well done.

How much is hexdraw software and is it easy to use?

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/27/2013 10:35:30 AM >


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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 10:45:49 AM   
grosbil


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Well I think it is too hard to view the differences in elevations.
Perhaps keep green for level 1 and jump to different browns for elevations could give a better idea of the map ?
Yep, I'm an ASL player

I think marking contour will give a more beautiful map but I can understand it will be difficult the way you go for creating maps.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 10:54:12 AM   
wodin


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grosbil I'm not keen on the brown ASL maps..but I'm sure you could easily mod the shade when the game comes out..

I think the difference in shade is ample..as it seems the max amount of elevation will be four it make sit easier to do different shades..a game I was modding had 20!! elevation hexes..was a nightmare.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/27/2013 10:56:10 AM >


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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 12:05:30 PM   
Hexagon

 

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Numbers help to made a more clear view of the map.

Something i dont remember ask... there is only 1 type of road??? i refer if the game doesnt have diferent types like main road, secondary road... rails... ooo and what about tunnels??? is something i allways miss in this games, never see a hex that works as a river hex but on land to cross some impasable terrains like hills.

Thanks.

< Message edited by Hexagon -- 4/27/2013 12:07:14 PM >

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/27/2013 1:59:05 PM   
Mad Russian


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No tunnels yet.

Roads in Europe are a HUGE issue. We spent hours working through the roads issues. For those of you that live there I'm truly sorry. I lived in Germany for more than 3 years and was a driver on those roads.

There are three types of roads in Europe.
1) Autobahn - most famous. Very fast with easy access.
2) Main roads - since WWII not too bad in heavily bombed towns/cities. In other places very narrow.
3) Towns and villages - extremely narrow roads.

Roads 2 and 3 are depicted on our maps. The Autobahn started off on the maps and was removed.

The autobahn would be target #1 for both sides in a contested area. Neither side wants the other side to have a high speed access road available to them. Road craters and runway cratering munitions would all find their way to what would eventually be a memory of the way the autobahns were before the war started. It wouldn't take long before NATO started disabling the autobahn system in the combat zones. So, we took it off the maps as it's own class. It is on the map as a #2 road because it still is big and straight.

#2 are the roads you see depicted on the maps.

#3 are in the villages and cities themselves.

Here is a screen shot of a map section showing the mobility hindrance levels. The higher the number the more hindrance in the hex.

Good Hunting.

MR




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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/28/2013 9:19:38 PM   
jack54


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These maps look excellent, will there be different Zoom levels?

I am really looking forward to this game.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/28/2013 10:03:48 PM   
Mad Russian


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Yes, they zoom.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 4/28/2013 10:11:25 PM   
Capn Darwin


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We have set zoom levels to zoom out to see more of the map.

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2.08 Update should hit Thursday. We are ramping up on 2.1 now. Happy Holidays!

Visit Our Website

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/10/2013 8:26:24 PM   
Mad Russian


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Each scenario has it's own map except one.

Here is where the battle areas are located. They are the FPRS locations named on the map.

Good Hunting.

MR




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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/11/2013 5:50:33 PM   
JohnO


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MR, the maps to me look great, however there is one thing to me is I have a hard time reading the names of the towns, the lettering is white, can I change it to black or is it hard coded in the game for the map?

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/11/2013 6:49:38 PM   
Mad Russian


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The maps have the white names hard coded I think. It wouldn't take much to create maps with black names. We might include those in the game if that would be something people would want.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/11/2013 7:26:03 PM   
JohnO


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Couldn't HexDraw be used by a player to change the color of the names of the towns from white to black?

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/11/2013 7:28:03 PM   
Capn Darwin


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@ JohnO - No. You would need to have the native map file for that. Right now all of the game maps are graphics images (PNG format). You could use a paint program to swap colors though.

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2.08 Update should hit Thursday. We are ramping up on 2.1 now. Happy Holidays!

Visit Our Website

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On Target Simulations Developer

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/11/2013 7:52:37 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnO

Couldn't HexDraw be used by a player to change the color of the names of the towns from white to black?



Yes, I could that in HexDraw. Unless you had my original file you would have to create the entire map to do it.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/11/2013 8:20:13 PM   
cbelva

 

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I would recommend that you wait and get the game before you decide the map names are hard to see/read. They are easy for me to read in game. In fact I find that the pictures posted of the game are not as clean as the maps look in the game. Remember you design your own tiles fonts etc to use to make your own maps.

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