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SU Flamethrower units

 
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SU Flamethrower units - 4/24/2013 8:39:51 PM   
morvael


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SU Flamethrower Company has start date 5/42, but it's main component, Flamethrower Squad has start date 7/42. Are such things bugs or not?

Since you are fixing the swap/upgrade loop of death issue by adding upgrade path to force production of new elements before they will be used by units, may I suggest several more places where adding such upgrade path would be useful? From my TOE details report several more cases can be found that show TOEs that do not update, use only old elements that cease to be produced and have no upgrade paths, resulting in such units having big problems in filling up. I believe there is no harm in adding upgrade paths between auto-produced items (there are no factories to carry on to new type) so they can be added everywhere there is a problem, like adding 122mm Howitzers between the old and new 152mm Howitzers for SU, or from 76mm AA guns to 85mm AA guns.
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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/24/2013 9:56:17 PM   
jaw

 

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The flamethrower company/squad date issue looks like a typo but I'll have to research it to find out which date is correct.

As for the artillery upgrades, these are usually deliberate to simulate historical shortages. I wouldn't want to mess with that without a direct request from Joel or Pavel. In WitE 2.0 (as is now true in WitW under development) artillery will also be fixed production so shortages or overages will be results dependent.

Jim Wirth

(in reply to morvael)
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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/24/2013 10:27:43 PM   
morvael


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Hard to explain "historical shortages" when armament points accumulate in the pool, but units are understrength. As a player I would expect lack of arm to be the source of shortages, not some weird combinations of start and end dates for ground elements and TOEs. But I understand the idea behind this. Bad luck that sometimes it causes armies to collapse prematurely. Also, I know it's hard to fix as each case has to be examined separately to find out if the shortage is on purpose or accidental.

Good to know about fixed production in WitW. I think it's better working than the on-demand one, which should be used only for squads and maybe minor weapons like MGs, Bazookas etc. I understand it requires more research, but arm-costly weapons like tanks, planes and guns should all follow historical numbers.

(in reply to jaw)
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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/25/2013 12:43:17 PM   
jaw

 

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Fixed the flamethrower company (it, not the squad, had the wrong date) and the squad upgrades have been restored.

In WitW we are experimenting with having infantry type units "import" rather than upgrade to newer versions. Still to early in development to know how well this process will work but it has the potential to be a far faster and more efficient way of handling the pool issue.

Jim Wirth

(in reply to morvael)
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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/25/2013 8:33:46 PM   
Denniss

 

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"Importing" to old squads into the new type should be even better as it prevents the armament sink of the newly-produced squads and partially prevents the armament block by thousands of old squads sitting pool for 12 months awaiting scrapping. Thats especially a problem for the pioneer squad change in 11/44 as they get never scrapped.

BTW this import fuction is working fine, I'm using it in my modified campaign for tank upgrades (a feature missing in WitE). I my last test with 1.07.04 this was not working for Soviet equipment though.

(in reply to jaw)
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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/25/2013 8:43:23 PM   
morvael


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How did you enable "imports" in WitE?

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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/25/2013 9:24:07 PM   
Denniss

 

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That's a virtual/mis-used export function, just set up the import from the new squad type and source it to the old squad type. AFAIR you have to setup a limit of how many are imported, I doubt leaving it at zero would be an unlimited "import". Sadly new production also counts vs the import of old squads so if you hit the limit by import and production you'll see no more imports. Also the value is probably limited to about 32k to avoid problems with the game engine.

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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/25/2013 11:10:02 PM   
jaw

 

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Current import limitations are exactly why I didn't try to retrofit this method to WitE. 32,000 just isn't enough, especially for the Soviet player.

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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/26/2013 1:09:08 AM   
Denniss

 

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Soviet player has more than anough armament points to stay alive in the current situation although the situation may be tough in 41 (but limitations are wanted here due to the initial chaotic situation). Offloading the soviets from building 3x 32k (net probably 20-25k each) rifle squads and probably some thousand cav squads would be a great help for them in 41/42 and nice in 43. Probably needs a small adjustment downwards in arm production.
The Axis side would also benefit from this, not only germany which does not really have great arm production but especially the minors (ROM with almost nil arm production is able to convert from 17 to 10 men squads without taking ages waiting for the arm points.

(in reply to jaw)
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RE: SU Flamethrower units - 4/26/2013 2:05:40 AM   
rmonical

 

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quote:

In WitE 2.0 (as is now true in WitW under development) artillery will also be fixed production so shortages or overages will be results dependent.


Does fixed production also include some ability to re-prioritize types as imbalances develop?

(in reply to jaw)
Post #: 10
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