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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

 
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 6:29:01 PM   
DBeves

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 7/29/2002
Status: offline
.

< Message edited by DBeves -- 4/25/2013 6:31:02 PM >

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 91
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 6:53:11 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2232
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

quote:

your total lack of customer service skills.


Sorry, what a bunch of bullocks and insulting for all the many guys from Matrix, Slitherine, Ageod, Lordz and many, many other developers giving support and helping out customers, even in weekends, during holidays or at night!




It sure is. The customer service is superb. Even to the extent of getting games I purchased long ago and downloaded long ago, but either lost the backup or forgot to do it.

(in reply to Lord Zimoa)
Post #: 92
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 7:02:45 PM   
Lord Zimoa


Posts: 681
Joined: 10/10/2008
Status: online
quote:

what is your rationale behind such a feat being completely impossible


That is not what Iain ever said or claims, in fact we do look at sales and price reductions, we do take in feedback and listen to customers and their ideas, wishes, hopes, expectations, advise. Than analyse and make a decision based on our available data, experience, befriended external advise and sometimes on a gut feeling or take a gamble, but being flexible.

As if we never had sales or price reductions and have not evaluated that data... before this whole rant started they were, and still are, actually looking at it for older games.

quote:

Finally, an idea regarding sales of back catalogue from Tim Stone a reporter at RPS has a certain resonance, as coincidentally we have been looking at doing something along the lines he suggests. Firstly we have to hear back from our developer partners, as we don’t cut their prices without consultation and they may not be interested.


In Dutch we have a wonderful expression: "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal"

The best helmsmen/steermen stand ashore.

< Message edited by Lord Zimoa -- 4/25/2013 7:34:50 PM >


_____________________________



www.thelordzgamesstudio.com
www.panzer-corps.com
www.commander-games.com


(in reply to Tomn)
Post #: 93
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 7:37:38 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2232
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

quote:

what is your rationale behind such a feat being completely impossible


That is not what Iain ever said or claims, in fact we do look at sales and price reductions, we do take in feedback and listen to customers and their ideas, wishes, hopes, expectations, advise. Than analyse and make a decision based on our available data, experience, befriended external advise and sometimes on a gut feeling or take a gamble, but being flexible.

As if we never had sales or price reductions and have not evaluated that data... before this whole rant started they were, and still are, actually looking at it for older games.

quote:

Finally, an idea regarding sales of back catalogue from Tim Stone a reporter at RPS has a certain resonance, as coincidentally we have been looking at doing something along the lines he suggests. Firstly we have to hear back from our developer partners, as we don’t cut their prices without consultation and they may not be interested.


In Dutch we have a wonderful expression: "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal"

The best helmsmen/steermen stand ashore.


Those who can — do. Those who can’t — criticize.


(in reply to Lord Zimoa)
Post #: 94
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 7:38:49 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2232
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
.




< Message edited by Aurelian -- 4/25/2013 7:39:48 PM >

(in reply to Lord Zimoa)
Post #: 95
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 8:29:08 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
It's clear that to argue on here is like watching a three year old trying to put together a four piece picture puzzle . It's fun for awhile but you get tired of it sooner or later. I have the right to my own opinion mr. Lord. Instead of telling me that I'm rubbish why don't you get started on commander the Great War for the iPad in which your company promised to put out in which I will pay full price for. Now that's customer service. Now off with you....shooo
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

quote:

your total lack of customer service skills.


Sorry, what a bunch of bullocks and insulting for all the many guys from Matrix, Slitherine, Ageod, Lordz and many, many other developers giving support and helping out customers, even in weekends, during holidays or at night!





< Message edited by rogo727 -- 4/25/2013 8:37:26 PM >


_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Lord Zimoa)
Post #: 96
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 8:45:09 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
And you can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a bulls ass but wouldn't you rather take the butchers word at it?
Tommy boy the movie.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

quote:

what is your rationale behind such a feat being completely impossible


That is not what Iain ever said or claims, in fact we do look at sales and price reductions, we do take in feedback and listen to customers and their ideas, wishes, hopes, expectations, advise. Than analyse and make a decision based on our available data, experience, befriended external advise and sometimes on a gut feeling or take a gamble, but being flexible.

As if we never had sales or price reductions and have not evaluated that data... before this whole rant started they were, and still are, actually looking at it for older games.

quote:

Finally, an idea regarding sales of back catalogue from Tim Stone a reporter at RPS has a certain resonance, as coincidentally we have been looking at doing something along the lines he suggests. Firstly we have to hear back from our developer partners, as we don’t cut their prices without consultation and they may not be interested.


In Dutch we have a wonderful expression: "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal"

The best helmsmen/steermen stand ashore.


Those who can — do. Those who can’t — criticize.





< Message edited by rogo727 -- 4/25/2013 9:35:34 PM >


_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 97
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 9:43:26 PM   
sulla05

 

Posts: 1097
Joined: 1/11/2005
Status: offline
Wow, I think some people had better break out the ludes.

Matrix and Ageod and Norbsoft have jumped through hoops for me as a customer. I have no direct experience with Slitherine in the same circumstances but I would be surprised if they didn't with all the other posts I have seen on their website.

We can either believe the posts about the sales #s or not. I for one do not see any reason to doubt them unless proved otherwise.

It would be nice as a consumer to see some sales but if the company and developers are still making money I can live with it so long as the wargames keep coming.

One thing I do not remember seeing talked about is something I have thought about for a while.

What about a one time deal where the Slitherine group gave X# of percent off for every game you have bought from them. A pleasant surprise to the faithful, so to speak. Not to ruffle feathers but maybe not have this apply to people who have beta tested. I say this because we testers have either gotten the games for free or were given a percentage off to buy the game after it was released.



_____________________________

Windows 7 home premium 64
Intel quad core I7
6 Gb DD3
ATI 5800

Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 98
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 9:50:26 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 549
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Wow, I think some people had better break out the ludes.

Matrix and Ageod and Norbsoft have jumped through hoops for me as a customer. I have no direct experience with Slitherine in the same circumstances but I would be surprised if they didn't with all the other posts I have seen on their website.

We can either believe the posts about the sales #s or not. I for one do not see any reason to doubt them unless proved otherwise.

It would be nice as a consumer to see some sales but if the company and developers are still making money I can live with it so long as the wargames keep coming.

One thing I do not remember seeing talked about is something I have thought about for a while.

What about a one time deal where the Slitherine group gave X# of percent off for every game you have bought from them. A pleasant surprise to the faithful, so to speak. Not to ruffle feathers but maybe not have this apply to people who have beta tested. I say this because we testers have either gotten the games for free or were given a percentage off to buy the game after it was released.

A loyalty programme, whether providing direct discounts, some kind of in-company currency, or some other tiers of enhancements, are definitely on our todo list. The key holdup is the sheer quantity of work the backend team has on its plate, esp with game-centric features and support.

Cheers

Pip

(in reply to sulla05)
Post #: 99
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 10:18:12 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 19443
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Thanks for the psychological analysis. I'll let my doctor know so he can stop looking for something more serious :)

There is definitely a clear misunderstanding here.

We greatly value customer feedback. You only have to look at the forums and see all the things we've changed at the request of our fans - basically you guys on the forums. We really appreciate the feedback and ideas and suggestions. However every idea that you present is reviewed and while many get implemented because we agree they are good ideas, many do not. We use our judgement to decide which of the suggestions to go with, and our experience and knowledge of the games industry and 13 years running the largest strategy games publisher in the world to filter the wheat from the chaff.

So the basic summary is - we are listening to our fans. We trust them. We believe they are telling us what they think is best and have our best interests at heart.

But...

We do not agree on this point. Does this mean we're paranoid, arrogant and out of touch.

That is one way to interpret it, but it assumes we are wrong.

The other option is that we are right and this is best for our business and our developers. So we have 2 options
1) Follow a business plan based on 13 years of running a successful company and over 20 years in the games industry.
2) Follow a business plan based on what a journalist and our fans (none of whom to my knowledge have ever made a game or run computer game publisher) suggest because we don't have the guts to follow our beliefs.

I know which option I will be choosing :)

warspite1

Iain - you responded with the above to my post..... I assume this was a mistake on your part? I would be grateful for a response. Thank-you.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to Iain McNeil)
Post #: 100
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 10:27:11 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
This is an easy one. You start from scratch . The only work needed is signing people up. Members who spend x amount of dollars with you get first crack at "new" games or you have a point system. The cheaper the game the less points you earn, the more expensive the game the more points. Once you get up to say 20 points you get 10% off or something like this.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Wow, I think some people had better break out the ludes.

Matrix and Ageod and Norbsoft have jumped through hoops for me as a customer. I have no direct experience with Slitherine in the same circumstances but I would be surprised if they didn't with all the other posts I have seen on their website.

We can either believe the posts about the sales #s or not. I for one do not see any reason to doubt them unless proved otherwise.

It would be nice as a consumer to see some sales but if the company and developers are still making money I can live with it so long as the wargames keep coming.

One thing I do not remember seeing talked about is something I have thought about for a while.

What about a one time deal where the Slitherine group gave X# of percent off for every game you have bought from them. A pleasant surprise to the faithful, so to speak. Not to ruffle feathers but maybe not have this apply to people who have beta tested. I say this because we testers have either gotten the games for free or were given a percentage off to buy the game after it was released.

A loyalty programme, whether providing direct discounts, some kind of in-company currency, or some other tiers of enhancements, are definitely on our todo list. The key holdup is the sheer quantity of work the backend team has on its plate, esp with game-centric features and support.

Cheers

Pip




_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 101
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 10:32:23 PM   
dutchman55555

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

My beef with you and slitherine is your total lack of customer service skills.



It's not a total lack, I think it's just lower than is expected (and delivered) by Matrix competitors. I have had issues with their software (although not recently) and they were resolved within an acceptable length of time and standard. Matrix has a very strong vision, and that vision is not shared with many of its customers, but sticking to that vision is not "lack of customer service skills".

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 102
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 11:26:35 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 549
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is an easy one. You start from scratch . The only work needed is signing people up. Members who spend x amount of dollars with you get first crack at "new" games or you have a point system. The cheaper the game the less points you earn, the more expensive the game the more points. Once you get up to say 20 points you get 10% off or something like this.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Wow, I think some people had better break out the ludes.

Matrix and Ageod and Norbsoft have jumped through hoops for me as a customer. I have no direct experience with Slitherine in the same circumstances but I would be surprised if they didn't with all the other posts I have seen on their website.

We can either believe the posts about the sales #s or not. I for one do not see any reason to doubt them unless proved otherwise.

It would be nice as a consumer to see some sales but if the company and developers are still making money I can live with it so long as the wargames keep coming.

One thing I do not remember seeing talked about is something I have thought about for a while.

What about a one time deal where the Slitherine group gave X# of percent off for every game you have bought from them. A pleasant surprise to the faithful, so to speak. Not to ruffle feathers but maybe not have this apply to people who have beta tested. I say this because we testers have either gotten the games for free or were given a percentage off to buy the game after it was released.

A loyalty programme, whether providing direct discounts, some kind of in-company currency, or some other tiers of enhancements, are definitely on our todo list. The key holdup is the sheer quantity of work the backend team has on its plate, esp with game-centric features and support.

Cheers

Pip




You're missing the point. Any system needs to be implemented server-side, across all the sites. This is a major technical task.

Cheers

Pip

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 103
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/25/2013 11:53:49 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
You mean to tell me that there is not one UK tech college student you can't hire? Yes it will take some work. Even I have to delegate work out.....let me put it this way.....what are you willing to do to be the best war gaming company out there? If this means you eat chopped steak instead of prime rib for a couple of months then make it happen. So in reality I'm not missing the point at all .
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is an easy one. You start from scratch . The only work needed is signing people up. Members who spend x amount of dollars with you get first crack at "new" games or you have a point system. The cheaper the game the less points you earn, the more expensive the game the more points. Once you get up to say 20 points you get 10% off or something like this.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Wow, I think some people had better break out the ludes.

Matrix and Ageod and Norbsoft have jumped through hoops for me as a customer. I have no direct experience with Slitherine in the same circumstances but I would be surprised if they didn't with all the other posts I have seen on their website.

We can either believe the posts about the sales #s or not. I for one do not see any reason to doubt them unless proved otherwise.

It would be nice as a consumer to see some sales but if the company and developers are still making money I can live with it so long as the wargames keep coming.

One thing I do not remember seeing talked about is something I have thought about for a while.

What about a one time deal where the Slitherine group gave X# of percent off for every game you have bought from them. A pleasant surprise to the faithful, so to speak. Not to ruffle feathers but maybe not have this apply to people who have beta tested. I say this because we testers have either gotten the games for free or were given a percentage off to buy the game after it was released.

A loyalty programme, whether providing direct discounts, some kind of in-company currency, or some other tiers of enhancements, are definitely on our todo list. The key holdup is the sheer quantity of work the backend team has on its plate, esp with game-centric features and support.

Cheers

Pip




You're missing the point. Any system needs to be implemented server-side, across all the sites. This is a major technical task.

Cheers

Pip




_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 104
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 12:08:17 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
When I speak of customer service I speak about the things they do that TOTALY ALIEANTE their customers who are the most loyal. In my personal email I have got a lot of emails who say they agree with me on this but are to afraid to say anything do to the fact that there are bullies on here (in which I have NO fear of). I have no doubt that Erik , Iain and mr.p have been greatly offended by my points of view. One fact that has been "RESEARCHED" is the older you get the less likely you are open to new ideas or charge.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

My beef with you and slitherine is your total lack of customer service skills.



It's not a total lack, I think it's just lower than is expected (and delivered) by Matrix competitors. I have had issues with their software (although not recently) and they were resolved within an acceptable length of time and standard. Matrix has a very strong vision, and that vision is not shared with many of its customers, but sticking to that vision is not "lack of customer service skills".



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to dutchman55555)
Post #: 105
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 12:38:42 AM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 549
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

When I speak of customer service I speak about the things they do that TOTALY ALIEANTE their customers who are the most loyal. In my personal email I have got a lot of emails who say they agree with me on this but are to afraid to say anything do to the fact that there are bullies on here (in which I have NO fear of). I have no doubt that Erik , Iain and mr.p have been greatly offended by my points of view. One fact that has been "RESEARCHED" is the older you get the less likely you are open to new ideas or charge.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

My beef with you and slitherine is your total lack of customer service skills.



It's not a total lack, I think it's just lower than is expected (and delivered) by Matrix competitors. I have had issues with their software (although not recently) and they were resolved within an acceptable length of time and standard. Matrix has a very strong vision, and that vision is not shared with many of its customers, but sticking to that vision is not "lack of customer service skills".


I can guarantee nobody is the tiniest bit offended by anything you or anyone else has said. I also haven't noticed any bullying - just the back-and-forth of healthy debate.

Cheers

Pip

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 106
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 12:42:07 AM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 549
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

You mean to tell me that there is not one UK tech college student you can't hire? Yes it will take some work. Even I have to delegate work out.....let me put it this way.....what are you willing to do to be the best war gaming company out there? If this means you eat chopped steak instead of prime rib for a couple of months then make it happen. So in reality I'm not missing the point at all .
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is an easy one. You start from scratch . The only work needed is signing people up. Members who spend x amount of dollars with you get first crack at "new" games or you have a point system. The cheaper the game the less points you earn, the more expensive the game the more points. Once you get up to say 20 points you get 10% off or something like this.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Wow, I think some people had better break out the ludes.

Matrix and Ageod and Norbsoft have jumped through hoops for me as a customer. I have no direct experience with Slitherine in the same circumstances but I would be surprised if they didn't with all the other posts I have seen on their website.

We can either believe the posts about the sales #s or not. I for one do not see any reason to doubt them unless proved otherwise.

It would be nice as a consumer to see some sales but if the company and developers are still making money I can live with it so long as the wargames keep coming.

One thing I do not remember seeing talked about is something I have thought about for a while.

What about a one time deal where the Slitherine group gave X# of percent off for every game you have bought from them. A pleasant surprise to the faithful, so to speak. Not to ruffle feathers but maybe not have this apply to people who have beta tested. I say this because we testers have either gotten the games for free or were given a percentage off to buy the game after it was released.

A loyalty programme, whether providing direct discounts, some kind of in-company currency, or some other tiers of enhancements, are definitely on our todo list. The key holdup is the sheer quantity of work the backend team has on its plate, esp with game-centric features and support.

Cheers

Pip




You're missing the point. Any system needs to be implemented server-side, across all the sites. This is a major technical task.

Cheers

Pip




We would never let a new hire near the backend systems that run the shop, forums, and other critical systems, for obvious reasons. This is simply a question of having the right people with the appropriate knowledge and skills available.

I have no idea what your steak-based comments are supposed to imply.

Cheers

Pip

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 107
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 12:51:01 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
I also like a good debate. Please understand I'm not against you but want to make you better. Some say I want stuff for free. No that's not the case. Anyone who disagrees with slitherine is subject to being "shunned ". From the old guard . Like I have said never been a "yes" man I always question, and for this I am respected. While you adopt the my way or the highway approach always remember that in a basement somewhere in the world there is a group of people working on how to be a better company than slitherine. Is slitherine a "proactive" company or a "reactive". Company?. If you want honesty it's a "reactive" company. If there is any doubt please see the PON thread, Easter egg sale, panzer korps mega pack sale ext...ext...
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

When I speak of customer service I speak about the things they do that TOTALY ALIEANTE their customers who are the most loyal. In my personal email I have got a lot of emails who say they agree with me on this but are to afraid to say anything do to the fact that there are bullies on here (in which I have NO fear of). I have no doubt that Erik , Iain and mr.p have been greatly offended by my points of view. One fact that has been "RESEARCHED" is the older you get the less likely you are open to new ideas or charge.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

My beef with you and slitherine is your total lack of customer service skills.



It's not a total lack, I think it's just lower than is expected (and delivered) by Matrix competitors. I have had issues with their software (although not recently) and they were resolved within an acceptable length of time and standard. Matrix has a very strong vision, and that vision is not shared with many of its customers, but sticking to that vision is not "lack of customer service skills".


I can guarantee nobody is the tiniest bit offended by anything you or anyone else has said. I also haven't noticed any bullying - just the back-and-forth of healthy debate.

Cheers

Pip




< Message edited by rogo727 -- 4/26/2013 12:52:35 AM >


_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 108
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 12:56:02 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 1417
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
Oh my.......did I say run the shop? Oh dear. But I do thank you for helping me understand your way of thinking. If you don't understand chopped steak from prime rib I have but two responses to,that, "Out of touch" and "worlds apart" comes to mind. Good luck to you sir.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

You mean to tell me that there is not one UK tech college student you can't hire? Yes it will take some work. Even I have to delegate work out.....let me put it this way.....what are you willing to do to be the best war gaming company out there? If this means you eat chopped steak instead of prime rib for a couple of months then make it happen. So in reality I'm not missing the point at all .
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is an easy one. You start from scratch . The only work needed is signing people up. Members who spend x amount of dollars with you get first crack at "new" games or you have a point system. The cheaper the game the less points you earn, the more expensive the game the more points. Once you get up to say 20 points you get 10% off or something like this.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Wow, I think some people had better break out the ludes.

Matrix and Ageod and Norbsoft have jumped through hoops for me as a customer. I have no direct experience with Slitherine in the same circumstances but I would be surprised if they didn't with all the other posts I have seen on their website.

We can either believe the posts about the sales #s or not. I for one do not see any reason to doubt them unless proved otherwise.

It would be nice as a consumer to see some sales but if the company and developers are still making money I can live with it so long as the wargames keep coming.

One thing I do not remember seeing talked about is something I have thought about for a while.

What about a one time deal where the Slitherine group gave X# of percent off for every game you have bought from them. A pleasant surprise to the faithful, so to speak. Not to ruffle feathers but maybe not have this apply to people who have beta tested. I say this because we testers have either gotten the games for free or were given a percentage off to buy the game after it was released.

A loyalty programme, whether providing direct discounts, some kind of in-company currency, or some other tiers of enhancements, are definitely on our todo list. The key holdup is the sheer quantity of work the backend team has on its plate, esp with game-centric features and support.

Cheers

Pip




You're missing the point. Any system needs to be implemented server-side, across all the sites. This is a major technical task.

Cheers

Pip




We would never let a new hire near the backend systems that run the shop, forums, and other critical systems, for obvious reasons. This is simply a question of having the right people with the appropriate knowledge and skills available.

I have no idea what your steak-based comments are supposed to imply.

Cheers

Pip




< Message edited by rogo727 -- 4/26/2013 1:38:07 AM >


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(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 109
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 1:06:29 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3175
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomn
I was pleasantly surprised to find that I did in fact recognize one of their games, and easily the most famous one on the list – Jagged Alliance 2, a tactical turn-based squad game that’s still considered one of the great classics by gamers across the world.


Nope, Jagged Alliance 2 was one of their cross-over attempt games, but at the time it was nowhere near as famous as it is today so wasn't a huge seller on a level that would have caused them to change business practices. The big success story at the time that caused their downfall in the end was Hidden and Dangerous. FPS covering WWII combat, probably the first of its kind.

Jim

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Post #: 110
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 1:17:16 AM   
**budd**


Posts: 1471
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline
I have a concern that is not totally off topic as it deals with customer service. First let me say that i have almost always received excellent customer service, and i have read many times where Erik Rutins has gone above and beyond to solve customer problems. My concern is about games not exclusive to Matrix/Slitherine, I will in fact not buy them here and i'm not sure i even want them to sell them at this point. I speak specially about APOS and Unity of Command. The level of support on non exclusive titles is defiantly different, patches lag behind, replies to concerns are slower, ect,ect.
I understand that limited resources must be channeled, but if your going to sell a game to a customer a certain level of support is expected and in the above game examples you defiantly left people hanging in the wind. I don't know if you plan too sell non exclusives games in the future but i won't be buying them here unless i can be sure that you have learned from the above examples. Hope you take the above as intended, feedback to improve your company in this area. As for my opinions on the rest of it:

I disagree with your stance on mostly no demo's, although a well done let play youtube video might be good enough. Not the movie trailer, very little game play video's i've seen you do in the past. Think Command Ops BFTB tutorial video's, i thought those were good.In fact I don't think you use youtube near enough.

I think your old games are too expensive. Especially the ones with no on going support or not sure they will run on modern systems.

Yes, you need more bundles.

Just one customers opinions.

Other than that i'm fine with you pricing how you want and me buying what i want. These are games and it's not like I don't have enough content already to last the rest of my life.




< Message edited by **budd** -- 4/26/2013 1:18:45 AM >


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*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 111
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 1:49:51 AM   
dutchman55555

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I have a concern that is not totally off topic as it deals with customer service. First let me say that i have almost always received excellent customer service, and i have read many times where Erik Rutins has gone above and beyond to solve customer problems. My concern is about games not exclusive to Matrix/Slitherine, I will in fact not buy them here and i'm not sure i even want them to sell them at this point. I speak specially about APOS and Unity of Command. The level of support on non exclusive titles is defiantly different, patches lag behind, replies to concerns are slower, ect,ect.


Yeah, I bought UoC on Matrix, then saw its DLC advertised on Steam. Went to Matrix, nothing. I went to the developers' website, saw it for sale there, e-mailed them asking if I could buy it there and apply it to Matrix's version. Short answer was "No". Longer answer was Matrix hadn't released the patch necessary to run the DLC, and the developers had no idea when they would. Bought the game again on Steam ($9.99 on sale) and the DLC for full price, a few days later. Haven't played my Matrix version since then, and certainly don't need the DLC for it. But this will please Matrix, as apparently the fewer sales something gets the more "value" it has.

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 112
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 4:21:23 AM   
Zap


Posts: 1686
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

re-invest in it



If There is ever a decision to do the above on a game in their catalogue. I would hope for Steel Panthers. Its unfortunate that the attempt to make Panzer Command: Ostfront it's successor didn't work.


I would be happy with the videos on U-Tube. I have paid full price for the games I own from matrix. It would be truly helpful to get a taste of the game before my purchases. Many I purchased I have not played. It was fine in the past because I wanted to support a young Matrix. Now, however, I want more value out of my games(choosier buyer today)

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 113
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 6:55:01 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2277
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Perturabo..well turn based is big business again...go check the graphics on many indie games..infact they try and be 8bit and sell in the bucketload..things have changed from even three years ago.

Indie hipster games. Nothing has changed. Their 8-bit is worthless, because they aren't making mechanically sophisticated games and can't match the mastery of special effects of the old devs.
Today's 8-bit = lazy cash in.

The return of isometric cRPGs - nothing to do with the future sophisticated cRPGs that were heralded by GURPS: Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2. Instead of that we get Shadowrun Returns that doesn't even have ammo and inventory, two story-based cRPGs with MMO-style combat and Fallout: Tactics 2.

If you want to see how stuff that is as hardcore as wargames fares look at Thorvalla and Grimoire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomn

Let’s assume that just one percent, a teeny, tiny one percent of everyone on Steam checks out a niche product, like a wargame, and finds it interesting. That’s 40,000 customers right there and then, and while wargaming may be niche, I truly and sincerely doubt that it makes up no more than 1% of the gaming population. Even if we remain conservative and kick it up to 5%, that’s 200,000 customers. Sure, you couldn’t compare such numbers to big names like Call of Duty or Assassin’s Creed, but it’s still quite enough to make a comfortable living for a niche developer.

That is, I should think, an incredibly different beast entirely from advertising in monthly or weekly gaming magazines back in the ‘90s, back when gaming itself was still a fairly small industry and still suffered from the stigmata of being for the “immature,” and where not everybody who played games subscribed to magazines or checked out everything on them.

No. The history of gaming is a history of decline caused by watering down of the audience - of computers becoming more and more common and thus ending up in hands of less and less intelligent people. Wargaming is for intelligent people and intelligent people like to be informed. That's why they were reading game magazines. Because picking up random expensive game in a store isn't something that an intelligent person does.
Wargamers are usually also passionate about history. Most of people are very stupid. History lessons quickly make their stupidity apparent to them so they don't like history.
"Stigmatas" and popularity or lack of it don't have influence on wargaming audience because the audience is accustomed to doing stuff that is unpopular among majority of people and not doing stuff that is popular.
If someone didn't read gaming magazines because gaming was "immature", it is almost certain that he was handed out a faulty brain just like some 90% of human population and thus is condemned to playing Call of Duty and the likes.

But returning to the part of humanity that wasn't handed out a faulty brain, a large part of that population won't be interested in wargames just because, similarly as one for example may have abilities to be very good at a math but simply find them not interesting enough to spend ones time on them. So, there's 5 percent of gamers capable of grasping complex wargames but sadly, most of them will be much more interested in stuff like Project Eternity, Torment 2 and Wasteland 2. (1% of gamers is a wildly optimistic assumption. But still there may be some who don't know that they prefer wargames. Though I have spent quite a lot of time trying to promote wargames among the 5% and almost all of them prefer cRPGs, RTS and similar game genres).

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 4/26/2013 6:56:26 AM >


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Post #: 114
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 10:01:11 AM   
Iain McNeil


Posts: 1973
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline
Hi guys,

we've said our piece and explained our position and don't really have anything else to add. There is nothing above that has been suggested that has not already been considered and debated internally. Every explanation just spawns more questions and while we could answer them we simply don't have the time and it would just lead to more questions so we're going to draw a line under it and move on :) We really do need to get back to making the games!

We'll continue to listen but we won't be making any more posts in this thread.

Cheers

Iain


_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Slitherine Software
Website http://www.slitherine.com

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 115
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 12:04:39 PM   
Iain McNeil


Posts: 1973
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline
I wasn't planning to post anymore but I had a private message from Warspite and had to respond to this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Iain - you responded with the above to my post..... I assume this was a mistake on your part? I would be grateful for a response. Thank-you.


Very sorry about that Warspite - I have edited it to clarify but the response was definitely not towards you, it just happened to be the item above my response to Jerrystead & previous comments.

_____________________________

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Slitherine Software
Website http://www.slitherine.com

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Post #: 116
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 5:46:13 PM   
grogmaster


Posts: 36
Joined: 4/25/2013
Status: offline
I think this thread is living proof of what seems to be the issue at heart here. There is a detachment between Matrix Games and its customers that's damaging for everyone involved, and that seems to be the reason for their irregular pricing policies. Instead of responding to customer concerns here with:
"I'm sorry to hear that, what can we do to help?"

We get: "Bullocks!"

It all makes sense now. Clearly, Slitherine needs a reality check or they'll be out of business.

(in reply to Iain McNeil)
Post #: 117
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 6:05:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 19443
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

I wasn't planning to post anymore but I had a private message from Warspite and had to respond to this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Iain - you responded with the above to my post..... I assume this was a mistake on your part? I would be grateful for a response. Thank-you.


Very sorry about that Warspite - I have edited it to clarify but the response was definitely not towards you, it just happened to be the item above my response to Jerrystead & previous comments.
warspite1

Thanks Iain

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Post #: 118
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 6:33:08 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2232
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: grogmaster

I think this thread is living proof of what seems to be the issue at heart here. There is a detachment between Matrix Games and its customers that's damaging for everyone involved, and that seems to be the reason for their irregular pricing policies. Instead of responding to customer concerns here with:
"I'm sorry to hear that, what can we do to help?"

We get: "Bullocks!"

It all makes sense now. Clearly, Slitherine needs a reality check or they'll be out of business.


Funny considering how they explained their position over and over, and what they get is "You're wrong. You don't know how to run your business."

(in reply to grogmaster)
Post #: 119
RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche - 4/26/2013 7:25:56 PM   
Stormwaltz

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
Folks, I'll add my own perspective and skedaddle, because this is something I have thought about often in the past. Maybe it will be useful for statistics purposes. Or perhaps I'm merely an outlier. :)

I've been a computer wargamer since I was in junior high. I cut my teeth on the SSI and SSG classics of the 80s on a C64. And I've bought a number of Matrix Games - fifteen, according to my account. But for the purpose of this discussion, it's more relevant to mention what I *haven't* bought, and why.

There are some topics I will immediately pull out my credit card for. The Pacific War is a focus of mine, and I love the Distant Worlds and Advanced Tactics series. There are other topics I'm not heavily invested in, but still curious about. WWII in Europe. Ancient Battles. Napoleonics. I look over these subjects in the catalog from time to time, and because I love wargames in general, I debate whether or not I should give them a shot. But ultimately, I don't buy them, because I judge the cost too high relative to my level of interest.

What I'm saying is that if you start putting things on sale a year or two after release, I'm not going to stop paying full price for the subjects and specific titles I'm deeply interested in. Whenever my finances permit, they will be preorders or day-one purchases. But in my particular case, if you put those subjects I'm not as interested in on sale from time to time, I might judge it worth risking dollars on.

If you decide to run sales, I guarantee that you will not lose any of the revenue you would have gotten from me anyway. But by never or rarely having sales on titles at the fringes of my interest, you're leaving more of my money that you *could* have behind on the table.

That's all I have to say, so I'll go back to lurking. Thanks for listening. :)

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 120
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