Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

COTA to be split into two data packs

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Command Ops Series >> COTA to be split into two data packs Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 2:11:49 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Hi all,

You might recall in the CO2 thread I said we were considering going to a lower cost format for delivering product and that we would aim to price our data packs at $30 and limit these to around 10 to 12 scenarios. We have decided to go ahead with that pricing structure. I will advise some exciting plans regarding future development in another thread shortly.

So we will be dividing up the COTA scenarios into two data packs. One will focus on the Greek Campaign and the other on the Mediterranean Battles. Both will sell for $29.99 for new customers and $19.99 for customers who already own COTA.

The scenario breakdown for the two packs would be:

Greek Pack (20 scenarios)

  • Battle of the Pindos Bases
  • Blunting the Spear
  • Charge of the Centaurs
  • Cutting the Line
  • Elasson Rearguard
  • First Clash at Veve
  • First Clean Break
  • Foothills of the Gods
  • Gamble and Scramble
  • Intro 1 - Bridges to Lamia
  • Intro 2 - Setback and Rebound
  • Parachutes over Corinth
  • Pindos Historical Campaign
  • Pulling Tight the Noose
  • Spartans at the Pass
  • Springing the Trap
  • Stemming the Tide
  • Take the Pass
  • Tanks at Platamon
  • Tempe Gorge Crisis


Mediterranean Pack (12 scenarios)

  • Battle for the Maltese Cross
  • Clash of Armour
  • Folgore at Maleme
  • Iraklion Airfield Falls
  • Iraklion Historical Campaign
  • Kiwis Fight Back
  • Maleme Historical Campaign
  • Ray of Hope
  • Rethymnon Historical Campaign
  • Rethymnon Roadblock
  • Storm Over Iraklion
  • Trial By Combat


I'm hoping to flesh out the Med pack with three other user designed scenarios. I have emailed the users seeking their permission to include the scenarios for a small royalty. So hopefully I will hear back from them shortly. If you know these users, please let them know in case the email I have is an old one. The three scenarios are:

  • Leros - by Hoplomachia
  • Cyprus - by Judge Dredd
  • Battleaxe/Brevity - by Prince of Eckmuhl


With these three, there will be 15 scenarios in the Med pack.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com
Post #: 1
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 10:20:19 AM   
ulisin

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 1/27/2010
Status: offline

anyway

I love you

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 2
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 10:42:02 AM   
ulisin

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 1/27/2010
Status: offline
and, if you can, be careful and check night visibility for 2 scenarios:
trial by combat - bir el gobi
and Sidi Rezegh

playing MP, I've noticed they have a very low parameter for night visibility - 5 if I remember well - while all other scenarios have 15.
In effect, infiltrations through enemy lines have been a lot easier. Too easy in my opinion.
All battles for these scenarios have been very confused (Sidir REzegh has been a very confused battle, I know, but in my game battles I've had a lot... a lot of confusion, too much!! Same as far as Bir el gobi).

If your parameters for night visibility are a thought choice, delete this post, but, perhaps, 5 for night visbility in those maps is a mistake ...

bye
thanks

(in reply to ulisin)
Post #: 3
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 1:13:14 PM   
Tophat1815

 

Posts: 1793
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ulisin

and, if you can, be careful and check night visibility for 2 scenarios:
trial by combat - bir el gobi
and Sidi Rezegh

playing MP, I've noticed they have a very low parameter for night visibility - 5 if I remember well - while all other scenarios have 15.
In effect, infiltrations through enemy lines have been a lot easier. Too easy in my opinion.
All battles for these scenarios have been very confused (Sidir REzegh has been a very confused battle, I know, but in my game battles I've had a lot... a lot of confusion, too much!! Same as far as Bir el gobi).

If your parameters for night visibility are a thought choice, delete this post, but, perhaps, 5 for night visbility in those maps is a mistake ...

bye
thanks


Interesting you use confused for Sidi Rezegh. Soon as I read that I remember Bob Crisp's account from "Brazen Chariots" and totally confused seems to perfectly sum up that battle. Of course his account is from the tank troop commanders perspective. Basically this desert battle was more sweeping melee with positions changing daily and the perspective of which side was winning at which point also in flux.


Looking forward to these 2 expansion packs.

< Message edited by Tophat1812 -- 4/22/2013 1:27:41 PM >

(in reply to ulisin)
Post #: 4
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 2:17:58 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Yes well there are numerous accounts of the Crusader battles which included Sidi Rezegh and they all convey the fact that no one knew what was going on other than in the immediate area they were in. The British armoured Bns attacked in waves through mountains of dust. sometimes they found the Germans lying in ait others they caught them on the move and other times they encountered no one. It was a very confused battle.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 5
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 4:19:42 PM   
ulisin

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 1/27/2010
Status: offline
I apologize in advance for my english, I'm Italian

By the way:

Yes, I know, and I've read Bob Crisp's account from "Brazen Chariots", and so on.
But why 15 for night visibility for all cota scenarios and 5 for Sidi rezegh and bir el gobi??

Night in the desert is more dark?
-)
Sure, now - in 2013 - you can say it! Now we have - in europe - a lot of light pollution. But in 1941?
And, again, the night of greek mountains was less black than near tobruk?

And - above all: I've played other desert scenarios, like those of Prince of eckmuhl- both multiplayer and vs AI - (very very beuatiful) and there is also, there, a lot of confusion too.
But they have 15 for night visibility!

And they work very well, in my opinion, there is confusion, but you can prevent infiltrations, in some way.
You can perform infiltrations, it's easy, but you can also prevent them. In sidi rezegh and bir el gobi you can attack enemy HQ in their beds without any problem, and you can't prevent enemy infiltrations, or quite so.

I think Cota models night vibility in abstract, it's not only a matter of 'vision', but you have also scout activity, for example, and so on. Or I'm wrong?
It seems to me that in Sidi rezegh and Bir el gobi, scenario designer doesn't keep in the right consideration this aspect.

bye
above all, tnhanks for you game
best wargame of my life, and I play since 1981!



< Message edited by ulisin -- 4/22/2013 4:22:01 PM >

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 6
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 5:08:16 PM   
Txema

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 5/9/2003
From: Basque Country
Status: offline
So... Which North Africa scenarios are going to be included in the Mediterranean Pack??


Txema

(in reply to ulisin)
Post #: 7
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 8:55:36 PM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2427
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline
Txema - looks like Trial by Combat and Clash of Armour. That's what it says above.

(in reply to Txema)
Post #: 8
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 10:04:19 PM   
Tophat1815

 

Posts: 1793
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline
Lets hope he gets in touch with some of the scenario designers and gets their scenarios in the pack as well.

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 9
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/22/2013 10:13:51 PM   
Txema

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 5/9/2003
From: Basque Country
Status: offline
Phoenix,

Which battles are covered by those scenarios ?

Sorry but I can not remember that...

Thanks for your help !!


Txema

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 10
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/23/2013 8:06:32 AM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2427
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline
Txema. Trial by Combat is 22nd Armoured v Italian Ariete Division at Bir-El-Gubi. Clash of Armour is, I think, the first sallies of Rommel against Crusader at Sidi Rezegh on 21st November. Both battles, historically, the Allies fared not so well.

(in reply to Txema)
Post #: 11
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/23/2013 4:34:13 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 3984
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
So, I want to make sure I understand...It will be $30 per pack, not $30 total, right?

Does anyone think it odd that it comes down to about $2US per scenario, about the same as HTTR? I mean, I have bought BFTB and the HTTR expansion, but $60US for 35 scenarios seems kind of steep. Is there anything else in these packs...

I find my gaming hobby slowly winding down because of pricing. Between the CM2 pricing model and this game, I find myself going back to older games because of it. I am also worried that companies like Matrix are forcing themselves into niches by setting prices where they are.

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 12
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/23/2013 9:08:12 PM   
RayWolfe

 

Posts: 1553
Joined: 2/5/2003
From: Kent in the UK
Status: offline
Here we go again!
Dave, I don't know why you bother.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 13
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 1:02:43 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
Yes I wonder that too Ray.

But I do realise that I will never satisfy some people's desires when it comes to pricing.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to RayWolfe)
Post #: 14
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 2:23:01 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 3984
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
Oh sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you might like some feedback. My bad.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 15
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 2:35:09 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 3984
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Yes I wonder that too Ray.

But I do realise that I will never satisfy some people's desires when it comes to pricing.


btw, I think your comment and rolling eyes emoticon is a pretty good thank you for spending $150 or so with your company.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 16
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 3:14:48 AM   
RockKahn

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/27/2011
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you might like some feedback. My bad.


Arjuna's always looking for constructive feedback.

_____________________________

I don't write Universal Law. I just live by it.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 17
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 3:55:00 AM   
loyalcitizen


Posts: 216
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline
How does one show that they previously bought COTA? Do I have to have it already downloaded to update? Because I don't have it downloaded.
My old computer and old disks have been lost to the ages (I have moved several times).

I've bought every release so far including RDOA. All I have on my computer is the new Command Ops stuff (Bulge and HTTR).

(in reply to RockKahn)
Post #: 18
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 5:13:56 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Yes I wonder that too Ray.

But I do realise that I will never satisfy some people's desires when it comes to pricing.


btw, I think your comment and rolling eyes emoticon is a pretty good thank you for spending $150 or so with your company.


My apologies. I should have exercised more restraint.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 19
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 1:03:27 PM   
AndrewKurtz

 

Posts: 579
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
btw, I think your comment and rolling eyes emoticon is a pretty good thank you for spending $150 or so with your company.


That would buy you about one whole hour of development from a software development company. Spend that hour wisely...


_____________________________


(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 20
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 2:16:25 PM   
jimcarravall

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Yes I wonder that too Ray.

But I do realise that I will never satisfy some people's desires when it comes to pricing.


People used to complain about the prices I had to charge for the auto parts I sold when I owned a business.

But, they didn't have to feed, clothe, house, heat, and transport my family; see that my employees could do the same for themselves and their families; and cover the costs of store space, inventory, equipment, heating, electricity and phone service before I even considered an obscure thing called "profit" at the end of the year.

Their choice, particularly if they walked up because their car wasn't working, was to either pay the extra dollar they complained about being charged, or walk down the street to the next store to save that buck.

Most stayed and paid.

Those that walked got plenty of exercise to learn the cheaper price offered them more exercise in another six months because the quality shrinks to make the item cheaper.

_____________________________

Take care,

jim

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 21
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 2:31:08 PM   
macob30


Posts: 165
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline
Exactly, how many times I paid more because I wanted to pay less. Quality is often more statisfaying than quantity and it often lasts longer. People have to see it that CO2 will be avaible in two years and for a fair price with the possibility to pay only for scenarios that they like. In addition battles packs already bought with CO1 will be free. Those who want to try the new features sooner will have the possibility to do it. It's an inovative way of product development.

< Message edited by macob30 -- 4/24/2013 2:33:17 PM >

(in reply to jimcarravall)
Post #: 22
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 3:15:09 PM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2427
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline
Well, I don't think people should be jumping on 'thewood1' (or anyone) for making a comment about pricing. The thread invites comments and the 'constructive only' thing is moot, since I'm sure thewood1 was sure it was constructive (and I'm sure he doesn't want to buy an hour of game development, he wants to buy a game...). Dave apologised, note. I'm sure if Wodin were let loose he'd have a lot more than that to say about it, and others who are keeping quiet because whenever the price thing comes up tempers seem to flare because there is often a tendency to ridicule those who don't want to pay that much. There are many different comparisons possible but at the end of the day some people can afford what's suggested, some can't. $2 a scenario seems small to me - as does $4,000 a scenario, which is what they would get if 2,000 people bought it (and I doubt, judging by activity in here, there are 2,000 people queing to buy). That would add up to what? Maybe, with say 40 scenarios and a few more pricey game engine updates - 250,000 max, I would think. Over two years. So, if 2,000 people buy the game Dave would get to live off it, maybe. But I would guess it's more like a thousand buyers, if that (I'd love to know...). None of which changes the fact that some poeple may find $2 a scenario expensive, even if invited to compare it with the price of (a) a bottle of beer, (b) a packet of fags, (c) a monthly cable subscription, (d) a meal out at McDonalds, etc. I wouldn't want to judge other people's finances. It's a market as many are keen to point out. Might be better, for the game, in that case, to explain to someone making a genuine query why $2 a scenario isn't bad value.

It isn't such bad value, thewood1 - in my opinion - because there aren't many people playing this game, by comparison to many other games out there (and for reasons completely unrelated to price), and in order for it to continue to exist the developers have to charge something like that, as you see above, where other developers who have games that more (and probably younger, let's face it) people are playing could charge less and survive. If you think that a couple of beers, or a meal out, or any such relatively common trivial thing would cost a lot more and be gone in minutes, then maybe that's ok, given how much time it takes to put the things together, and how many hours pleasure you get get out of a single scenario, played carefully, always assuming you're really into the game. Personally, since I realy rate this game and do want it to continue, I'm very glad that you, like me, have spent $150 plus so far.

< Message edited by phoenix -- 4/24/2013 4:41:59 PM >

(in reply to macob30)
Post #: 23
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 3:50:02 PM   
macob30


Posts: 165
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline
My comment wasn't intendent directly to thewood1. And from its perspective I understand it may look expensive. IMHO, the split of COTA must be seen as a part of a new "business model". It may work or not, customers will tell. As I see it we have plenty of choices now. From a very fair price to a very expensive package. Even if I could afford the whole thing, I probably wouldn't have the time to play all this.

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 24
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 3:50:50 PM   
RockKahn

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/27/2011
From: USA
Status: offline
Wodin. Where are you? We need your input.

_____________________________

I don't write Universal Law. I just live by it.

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 25
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 4:28:07 PM   
vj531


Posts: 367
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline
If this price structure is successful and allows Dave to continue his commitment to this excellent product then I'm in.

I worked in the industry in a previous life, so believe me when I say we are all very lucky that Dave and co are still willing to put the hours in, and it is certainly not for the money.









_____________________________

All the best
Stephen

i5 Win 10 8GB RAM

(in reply to RockKahn)
Post #: 26
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 8:08:01 PM   
wodin


Posts: 9542
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Mr P..how well you know me

I'm keeping my mouth shut on any aspect of pricing on the CO forum.


Maybe not about the old games issue in General discussion..but here I wont utter a word again. I just feel bad in the end anyway when I do as everyone seems to jump down on me and think I'm trying to cause trouble..so as I said my mouth is stapled shut.

_____________________________


(in reply to vj531)
Post #: 27
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 10:18:14 PM   
Txema

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 5/9/2003
From: Basque Country
Status: offline
It would be very good to get more North African scenarios in the Mediterranean pack... I think that there are several of those North African scenarios developed by the users for COTA...


Txema

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 28
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 10:50:53 PM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2427
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline
Very wise, Jason. Don't stick your head above the parapet.

(in reply to Txema)
Post #: 29
RE: COTA to be split into two data packs - 4/24/2013 11:09:18 PM   
wodin


Posts: 9542
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Funny enough I don't mind being seen as a pain by Iain and Slitherine etc..but I don't like Dave seeing me that way..it does bother me...thats why here I will keep my mouth shut tight (well my finger sin control anyway). Dave and Panther do a superb job and if I had the money I'd buy all the upgrades etc etc..just finances dictate it can't really be done which actually bothers me as I'd like to keep Panther going.


So as I said I really don't like having a bad rep with Panther (simovitch posted something which kind of made me realise I wasn't exactly seen as the best member here something about not me not being on the beta team due to some indiscretion awhile back).

I think Panther do a superb job and am extremely thankful they are around.


As for Mr Woods comment..well this is one of the threads I restrained myself;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Very wise, Jason. Don't stick your head above the parapet.


< Message edited by wodin -- 4/25/2013 12:37:45 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Command Ops Series >> COTA to be split into two data packs Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.180