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RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing.

 
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RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 3:50:18 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1706
Joined: 10/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

I like homemade strawberry-banana ice cream.



At last, the voice of reason.

Best wishes,
Steve

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I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 61
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 4:16:41 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7934
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.

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Post #: 62
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 4:24:11 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1706
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.


They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 63
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 4:37:19 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18041
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.


They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 64
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 4:44:40 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1706
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.


They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?






I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 65
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 4:52:14 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18041
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.


They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?






I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

I think you are right - he looks a little quesy....





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 66
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 5:32:21 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2263
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

I’m still trying to figure out how the bean counters figured this benefits Matrix ? they couldn’t have asked for better (FREE) advertisement or endorsement for that matter……NWS was always plugging Matrix new releases across the community why cut them out ?

I ‘ve spent a boatload more on matrix titles at NWS then I ever have at the Matrix store, many I wouldn’t have even bothered with despite the discount pricing NWS, same as with GMT HPS.

good luck with it..........

AFAIK, NWS is much less known than Matrix Games. Though yeah, it's a pretty big loss for gamers with lower budget.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

I’m starting to get an idea why David H leaving Matrix was never announced, many here have been supporting Matrix and Company for a decade + and understood their strategy /pricing . It’s becoming exceedingly tuff to make that argument with the current library of Slitherine and Matrix titles.

“We” are a small owner/operated “niche” hobby publisher was understandable back in the lean early days , this policy or argument is no longer valid to me or should be to anyone that’s been around to see the evolution of this company, hell I remember the days I would pick up the phone and just shoot the $hit with David. I understand that atmosphere is gone but also understand along with that is any pricing leverage imho ………………….. it wasn’t just the game I was purchasing , it was a small hobby store and the people involved I was investing in.

freemarket has nothing to do with it, I expect to pay a premium at “mom ‘n pops” , honestly I no longer see Matrix storefront in that light ………………………….just saying

What about developers themselves?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

No it doesn't. but that is the current agenda of a few disgruntled.

And it isn't just software publishers. Book publishers should too. I have one book with two page 108s. Another with a page put in backwards. Guess they should lower the price now.

I happened to look at a later printing of Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon some time ago. $110 for a book that hasn't changed in content since published. I have an earlier one listed at $95. And yet, people buy it.

Too bad there's no localized wargaming market like with history books. Generally, local releases of specialist books tend to have prices adjusted to local market like for example technical manuals or history books that cost 50$ in US, cost 50PLN in Poland, those who cost 100$ cost 100PLN, etc.
I recently bought a few translations of books that I would be unable to buy if I'd have to import them from the west because the local economy would turn their prices from merely expensive to insanely expensive.

That is Matrix Games used to have a deal with some Polish company but that company didn't localize the games and was selling them for some ridiculously low prices like 20PLN.
Interestingly, it was the same company that later kicked the founder of a planned technically advanced Fallout-like game project - Afterfall and instead of making the planned turn-based cRPG, started making first person shooters set in that world. Pretty shady company.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Perturabo,

If that is true then all software developers (not just game developers) stand guilty as charged. I agree though that all software developers should carry the warning - This Software May Not Be Perfect.

Besides, it is my understanding (and again, I could be wrong) that AGEOD intends to resume development of PON and it was the ultra low prices and the low income from the game that caused development to stop in the first place.

There's also a question of games that are not only potentially bugged but already known to be bugged.

Though one thing that annoys me especially with Matrix Games is that they are still falsely advertising CMMT as having "Accurate and realistic modern equipment modelling" and "Accurately depicts modern tactical warfare and its challenges" long after it was proven that equipment data contains glaring errors, the engine simulates only WWII equipment and is unable to simulate ATGMs and modern tank armour, a newer version of CCM that was specifically updated to be vaguely accurate about the challenges of modern tactical warfare (stuff that is very characteristic for modern warfare like presence of civilians on battlefields, IEDs, combatants masking as civilians, night combat with asymmetric equipment, etc.) was made even before CCMT was released, so the version of CCM that CCMT is based on isn't anywhere near being an accurate depiction of modern tactical warfare, etc.
Not to mention lack of AI that is capable of attacking. Waiting in vain for enemies to show up is rather lame.
Meanwhile it's unfairly competing with games from other developers that actually bothered to at least try to implement these features.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 67
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 5:33:59 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1411
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.
quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.


They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?






I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 68
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 5:43:35 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18041
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.
quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.


They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?






I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve


warspite1

I trust you are not including me in the name calling dept? Despite the fact you once called me Pudding Pants in an argument, I like to think that we have risen above that and can disagree in a civilised manner without resorting to childish name calling...what do you say Mr Poopy Pants?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 69
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 5:48:03 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1411
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
LOL! yes of course agreed!
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.
quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I never notice any developers coming to defend Slitherines stance (On their older games) in these sorts of threads..that maybe telling aswell.


They know they cannot win the argument.

They have already tried to explain that PON has been on steam, it made very little money due to the massive discounts offered. AGEOD left Paradox because of it. And now, hopefully can earn some money in order to support the game.

This, of course, is totally wrong. The game must be on Steam and continue to be sold at a massive discount because this makes business sense apparently and I fully agree that there is an elephant in the living room.

This bloody thread goes round and round and round and round and round and round.....

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

Yeah? well now you know how Dumbo feels...hey - maybe he is the elephant in the room?






I think he's the one eating all the strawberry and banana ice-creams.

Best wishes,
Steve


warspite1

I trust you are not including me in the name calling dept? Despite the fact you once called me Pudding Pants in an argument, I like to think that we have risen above that and can disagree in a civilised manner without resorting to childish name calling...what do you say Mr Poopy Pants?



_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 70
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 5:48:45 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1706
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.


Rogo727,

I do not like some of the comments that have been directed at you either. Disagreements are one thing but childish name-calling is something else entirely.

You just had to add dark chocolate syrup didn't you? You are evil! Next you will be suggesting a topping of crushed nuts.

Best wishes,
Steve



_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 71
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 5:57:53 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18041
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I just want to see this company grow and expand. Because I disagree with some things and express what I feel I am called names and told to grow up by the old time guard. Public perception is everything. It should be noted I also like strawberry banana ice cream with a heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup.


Rogo727,

I do not like some of the comments that have been directed at you either. Disagreements are one thing but childish name-calling is something else entirely.

You just had to add dark chocolate syrup didn't you? You are evil! Next you will be suggesting a topping of crushed nuts.

Best wishes,
Steve


warspite1

Dark chocolate syrup? I missed that reference. Dark Chocolate Syrup? rogo727 is there no form of depravity beyond your sordid bounds? you are just a filthy pervert aren't you?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 72
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 6:03:07 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1706
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline
Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 73
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 6:05:19 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18041
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve
warspite1

Et tu shunwick?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 74
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 6:14:36 PM   
Rtwfreak

 

Posts: 382
Joined: 12/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve


Don't forget the cherry on top.

Dammit now I have to goto SONIC and get me a Chocolate Sundae with nuts ana cherry on top.

< Message edited by Rtwfreak -- 4/21/2013 6:15:09 PM >

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 75
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 6:18:22 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1706
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Strawberry and banana ice cream sundae with heavy helping of dark chocolate syrup, crushed nuts, and a flake.

Best wishes,
Steve


Don't forget the cherry on top.

Dammit now I have to goto SONIC and get me a Chocolate Sundae with nuts ana cherry on top.


Oh Lord,

I want one. Give it to me now!

Best wishes,
Steve

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to Rtwfreak)
Post #: 76
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 11:18:28 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1411
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
Well all need sonic right now!

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 77
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 11:26:10 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7934
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Shunwick I wasn't talking about AGEOD as they are now part of Slitherine..I'm talking about developers of other games here that aren't part of the company and whose games that are getting on are sold at prices that I very much doubt anyone buys..there by they got no money in whatsoever. I know of at least one who has issues with the pricing policy of the older games and could compare the amount of money brought in from the games that weren't Slitherine exclusive so they could be sold cheaper elsewhere compared to the amount the games sold here at the higher price..This tells me the pricing policy for older games isn't in the developers interest at all.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/21/2013 11:27:05 PM >


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(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 78
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/21/2013 11:36:07 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2819
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: the pale blue dot
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

What about developers themselves?



how does charging $50-60 usd for Carriers At War help out SSG ?

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 79
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 1:07:30 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3474
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Plymouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

how does charging $50-60 usd for Carriers At War help out SSG ?


In a direct sense it doesn't, as nobody (to all intents and purposes) will buy it. Same with most of the older games.

The rationale must be to maintain an ongoing policy, to keep the prices of games high so people don't put off purchase in the months after initial release while they wait for a sale. OK, Matrix do have sales, but compared to what we come to expect from Steam and Gamersgate (and despite the quoted comment at RPS I see NO SIGN WHATEVER of that policy changing anytime soon) they are less than awe inspiring. I can't remember the last time a 30% discount tempted me into buying a Matrix game.. if I'd pay 70% I wanted it enough to pay 100%. Despite the utter tripe from Iain (no offence, m8) about 'value' and 'worth', it's about future games from AGEOD and others. Anything released already is a lost cause and they bloody well know it, just as Paradox did.

What interests me is where Slitherene/Matrix will go now with non-exclusive titles. I'm too embarrassed to say what you can pick up the superb 'Achtung Panzer' or not-quite-so good 'Armada 2526' for online elsewhere at preaent. Not to mention those taken on when they were already bargain-bucket elsewhere, 'Matrix Editions' or not. How many copies of 'Officers' or 'AI War' have been sold? The last is a brilliant game, but sadly it's the only big seller the guy at Arcen has had despite designing three other very good games, so it's been pushed out everywhere and - long past the initial sales run - been available for peanuts somewhere or other long before Matrix even started selling it. I just can't see any alternative to dropping non-exclusive games completely as all but a very few will buy cheaper elsewhere to compensate for the prices of future exclusive releases. If the devs choose to sell from site X as well as Matrix and site X is cheaper.. they know how the market works the same as everyone else.

In short, the catalogue AGEOD games have very little to do with 'supporting' anybody, as few will be sold. It's all about maximising revenue from future games. If that works, good luck to everybody concerned but if I didn't already own everything AGEOD bar RoP I'd feel little guilt picking up box copies at what is very much the market price and, sorry Iain, market value. New games are a different deal.


< Message edited by Hertston -- 4/22/2013 1:12:57 AM >

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 80
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 1:35:10 AM   
jday305


Posts: 117
Joined: 3/31/2013
From: Northeast Indiana
Status: offline
I hate strawberries!! I'll take any other flavor but that. LOL

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 81
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 1:58:42 AM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 127
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline
You mentioned AI War, which I just picked up on Steam since it was indeed on sale at a really low price. About $5 for the game plus all DLC. I had tried the demo before and found it to be interesting but I didn't have the time to get into it. For $5 I'm more than willing to take a shot at it. Might not make the developer a ton of money, but it's one more potential customer for future DLC and a little cash immediately. Obviously, not every game is only worth $5, this is just an example.

Just for fun I looked, and the regular Steam price for the bundle is almost half the price on the Matrix store, for the exact same product. Craziness. How many copies could they possibly be selling of these sorts of games, where the price here far exceeds even the regular price elsewhere, much less the occasional sale prices.

Like others said, this is different for a new game. I can understand leaving the price full or close to it for the first year or two to discourage customers waiting them out for a better deal. Once we start talking 5+ years, the market shifts. It stops making sense to sell what I can only assume to be near zero copies of many games, regardless of the high amount of revenue per sale.

Even Battlefront has dropped some of their prices to match the prices of stuff also available on Steam. I recall most recently PT Boats. Which of course they announced with great fanfare, as if it was their idea in the first place. Speaking of Battlefront, I really want to get TacOps4, but not for $25. Are they crazy? That's more than CMSF costs. Doesn't make any sense at all.

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 82
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 4:38:30 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
There are two ways to expand your market. Gameplay and price. Obviously people do not want the gameplay to be dumbed down to attract a broader market. So, with the absolute refusal to lower prices Matrix and Slitherine are ensuring that this will remain a niche market. There are a lot of people out there who would probably love these type of games if they tried them,...but when you have a really high price, not many are going to risk it, especially if they have no demo to try.

Right now its obviously not that big an issue to them. But they may want to wake up and think of the future.........the gamers that are buying now are not going to live forever,...if they don't get some new blood into the niche market,.....the market will disappear in time.

(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 83
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 8:05:48 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7934
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Which is a point that seems to be missed totally by Slitherine and even other wargame publishers\developers.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

There are two ways to expand your market. Gameplay and price. Obviously people do not want the gameplay to be dumbed down to attract a broader market. So, with the absolute refusal to lower prices Matrix and Slitherine are ensuring that this will remain a niche market. There are a lot of people out there who would probably love these type of games if they tried them,...but when you have a really high price, not many are going to risk it, especially if they have no demo to try.

Right now its obviously not that big an issue to them. But they may want to wake up and think of the future.........the gamers that are buying now are not going to live forever,...if they don't get some new blood into the niche market,.....the market will disappear in time.


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(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 84
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 9:21:22 AM   
tevans6220

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 9/3/2005
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Here's the thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If PON wasn't making any money for Paradox or on Steam even with a lower price, how does Slitherine/Matrix figure it's going to make any money selling it for a higher price? How much money could they possibly make now? I'm sure they'll get a few sales but anybody who wanted it probably already has it and paid a cheaper price for it. They just aren't going to make a huge amount of money off PON now. They should be doing what WalMart does. Breaking even or taking a loss on certain products to attract customers to other products. I don't see that happening though because they don't seem willing to drop prices on any of their older games. And most of what they sell is old or rehashed games. Take a look at their catalog.

I love the Ageod guys but if they couldn't make it work on their own and they couldn't make it with Paradox, I just don't see how Slitherine/Matrix is going to make that much difference. The problem is they release games that need an abundance of patches. I applaud the Phils for supporting their products but as a consumer it gets tiresome. Just once I'd like to buy an Ageod product that needs relatively minor patching. I said it almost 3 years ago and I'll say it now, PON is a bad game. Saying it and arguing with fanboys about it got me perma banned off the Paradox forums. The idea behind the game was good but whoever thought waiting 5+ minutes a turn in a 1000+ turn game needs their head examined. Gaming is supposed to be a form of entertainment not a hassle. And now the price goes up from when it was originally released several years ago. Doesn't make any sense at all.

< Message edited by tevans6220 -- 4/22/2013 9:32:42 AM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 85
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 9:46:44 AM   
Nemo84

 

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Speaking as a long-time lurker who is quite interested in a whole bunch of older Matrix titles but is simply incapable of paying the ridiculous prices asked, I'll just leave this link here. It's a small indie dev talking quite openly about the benefits of regular 50% off sales.

The games sold by Matrix are considered niche for two main reasons: the price and the interface. The prices which quite often exceed those of newly-released AAA titles deter new players from trying these games, as they won't take such expensive risks on a game they might like. And the interface of these games is quite often so horribly bad and unprofessional that it only further alienates potential customers. WitP:AE with a somewhat decent user-friendly interface being sold at $25-$30 during a Steam midweek sale could easily top the Steam sale chart and bring in more money during that single week than it does now in several years.

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 86
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 11:44:40 AM   
shunwick


Posts: 1706
Joined: 10/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Shunwick I wasn't talking about AGEOD as they are now part of Slitherine..I'm talking about developers of other games here that aren't part of the company and whose games that are getting on are sold at prices that I very much doubt anyone buys..there by they got no money in whatsoever. I know of at least one who has issues with the pricing policy of the older games and could compare the amount of money brought in from the games that weren't Slitherine exclusive so they could be sold cheaper elsewhere compared to the amount the games sold here at the higher price..This tells me the pricing policy for older games isn't in the developers interest at all.


Wodin,

I am not trying to defend Slitherine Group's pricing policy.

My interest is in a strong and vibrant wargame community. I would like to see quality wargames produced and sold at prices that customers can afford and gives publishers and developers the income they need to support their games, to create new ones, and to make reasonable profits on their investment.

I believe that is also Slitherine Group's objective.

Now, does their pricing policy support this objective? I do not know.

The bundles article that you linked in the opening post appeals to me as a customer. Of course it does. It would be surprising if the Slitherine Group has not, at least, considered something along those lines.

And just be clear, I am neither a flag waver nor an implacable opponent of Steam. But clearly, Steam is not the one-size-fits-all solution that many people like to suggest.

Ultimately though, the Slitherine Group manage their business according to their knowledge and experience. Are they correct with their pricing policy? Again, I do not know. I hope so for all our sakes.

Best wishes,
Steve

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(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 87
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 12:51:19 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3474
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Plymouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

There are two ways to expand your market. Gameplay and price. Obviously people do not want the gameplay to be dumbed down to attract a broader market. So, with the absolute refusal to lower prices Matrix and Slitherine are ensuring that this will remain a niche market.


I'm not sure the two are necessarily mutually exclusive. Matrix themselves have established a clear division between some 'premium' wargame titles and the rest of their catalogue that is generally accepted by we regular punters. For reasons I won't bore you with I'd also include Field of Glory and its many expansions in that group as well. Nobody is howling about the price of WitP, WiR and Command Ops because everyone accepts those titles both do retain a high market value, have no real competition, and in all probability are at the prices that maximise the bottom line.

There's no need to dumb down to expand the market, but there is a need to get less 'grog' titles out to the masses, under the same sort of marketing policy as competing products. Carriers at War is a good example; how many copies of that have been sold recently? Really? Yet would would a 'real' sale or heavy discount on game that old really effect people purchasing plans re new games? I might wait a couple of months for a price reduction in a game I fancied, but not five years!


< Message edited by Hertston -- 4/22/2013 12:52:06 PM >

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 88
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 1:53:29 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18041
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

Speaking as a long-time lurker who is quite interested in a whole bunch of older Matrix titles but is simply incapable of paying the ridiculous prices asked, I'll just leave this link here. It's a small indie dev talking quite openly about the benefits of regular 50% off sales.

The games sold by Matrix are considered niche for two main reasons: the price and the interface. The prices which quite often exceed those of newly-released AAA titles deter new players from trying these games, as they won't take such expensive risks on a game they might like. And the interface of these games is quite often so horribly bad and unprofessional that it only further alienates potential customers. WitP:AE with a somewhat decent user-friendly interface being sold at $25-$30 during a Steam midweek sale could easily top the Steam sale chart and bring in more money during that single week than it does now in several years.
warspite1

I believe you are missing out the most important reason for their status - i.e. the relatively small demand for these games compared to other computer game types.

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(in reply to Nemo84)
Post #: 89
RE: Rock paper Shotgun on Slitherine and pricing. - 4/22/2013 2:06:24 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 18041
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

warspite1

quote:

If PON wasn't making any money for Paradox or on Steam even with a lower price, how does Slitherine/Matrix figure it's going to make any money selling it for a higher price? How much money could they possibly make now?


That depends doesn't it? 50 people buying at $1.99 will net less considerably less income than just
10 people at $25.99.

quote:

How much money could they possibly make now? I'm sure they'll get a few sales but anybody who wanted it probably already has it and paid a cheaper price for it. They just aren't going to make a huge amount of money off PON now.


But how do you know that? Matrix have invested their cash, they have taken the risk. Why are you so dismissive of their ability to understand the market? You may be right, you may be wrong but you cannot state as fact.

quote:

They should be doing what WalMart does. Breaking even or taking a loss on certain products to attract customers to other products.


Why? Who says? Their argument is that making losses on games ensures new games cannot aford to be developed. I do not know for certain but I would hazard a guess that Matrix ability to take loss leaders is not quite and big as someone like Walmart....

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England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 90
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