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strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans

 
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strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/17/2013 12:19:32 PM   
Extraneous

 

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While we wait lets look at political strategy and its repercussions using the Balkans as an example.

Here is the situation 24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945:

Step 1.
Germany DoW's Poland.

quote:

9.3 Compulsory declarations
Germany must declare war on Poland in the first impulse of any game that starts in Sep/Oct 1939. No major power may make any other declaration of war in that impulse.

France and the Commonwealth must declare war on Germany on their first impulse after Germany has declared war on Poland. No major power may make any other declarations of war in that impulse.



quote:

19.5.1 Eastern Poland
The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can only exercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered.

You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of eastern Poland.

Once you exercise those rights, the part of Poland to the east of the partition line becomes conquered by the Soviets. Move any Axis units there to the nearest Axis controlled hex they can stack in. Any Allied (except Soviet) units there are destroyed. They are removed from the game (internment) until Germany and the USSR are at war, at which point they may be added to the Commonwealth force pool if the Commonwealth player so desires.

Axis units may not cross the partition line after the USSR exercises its rights unless Germany and the USSR are at war.

Anytime after 1941, the Commonwealth can add a randomly chosen Polish MOT and MECH to its force pools if, at that time:
• The USSR has exercised its rights under the pact; and
• Poland has been conquered by the Axis; and
• The USSR and Germany are at war.

All the Polish units covered by this rule are treated as British for all purposes.

quote:


20. The Axis declares war on: (if Japan declares war place USA entry chit in the USA (Ja) entry pool else place it in the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)
Poland, Spain, Turkey or any American country (1 USA entry chit and a 20% chance of another will be added to the USA entry pool)
Belgium, Finland, Rumania, Sweden or Switzerland (There is a 80% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool)
Other minor (There is a 30% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool)





Step 2.
The USSR occupies eastern Poland.

quote:


19.5.1 Eastern Poland
The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can only exercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered.

You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of eastern

26. The USSR controls Eastern Poland (There is a 70% chance a USA entry chit will be removed from the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)
The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can only exercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered (see 19.5.1 Eastern Poland).




Step 3.
Poland is conquered.


Step 4.
The USSR claims Bessarabia and the Germans deny the claim. The USSR must DoW Rumania.

quote:

19.6 Soviet border rectification
The Soviet Union laid claim to territory held by several of its neighbours. As a result of the Nazi-Soviet partition of Poland, it recovered the land it claimed from that country. Subsequently, with German approval, it absorbed the Baltic States, satisfying further claims. This rule covers its claims over Rumania and Finland.

19.6.2 Rumania

The USSR claims Bessarabia
During any Allied declaration of war step (after the first) while Rumania is neutral, the USSR can claim Bessarabia.

The German player (acting as Rumania) must either allow the claim or deny it.

Rumania denies the claim
If Rumania denies the USSR’s claim, the USSR must immediately declare war on Rumania.

Germany can enforce a peace between Rumania and the USSR during any peace step if:
• no hex of Rumania, outside of Bessarabia, is Soviet controlled; and
• Germany and the USSR are not at war.

If Rumania and the USSR come to peace:
• Rumania again becomes a neutral minor country;
• the USSR keeps control of Bessarabia provided there is a Soviet land unit anywhere in Bessarabia; and
• Germany can declare Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria aligned with Germany during any later Axis declaration of war steps.

If the USSR conquers Rumania:
• Germany can declare Hungary aligned with Germany during any later Axis declaration of war step; and
• Bulgaria can never align with Germany but the USSR can declare it aligned with the USSR during any later Allied declaration of war step.

While Rumania and the USSR are at war:
• Germany can declare Hungary aligned with Germany during any Axis declaration of war step; and
• Bulgaria cannot align with either Germany or the USSR.

31. The USSR declares war on:
Poland, Spain, Turkey, or any American country (2 USA entry chits and a 50% chance of another will be removed from the USA (Ja) entry pool)
Belgium, Finland, Rumania, Sweden or Switzerland (1 USA entry chit and a 80% chance of another being removed from the USA (Ja) entry pool)
Other minor country or Vichy France (There is a 90% chance of a USA entry chit being removed from the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)



Step 5.
The USSR occupies only Bessarabia. The Germans declare peace between Rumania and the USSR.


Question: Strategically what has the USSR done wrong?






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Post #: 1
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/17/2013 4:41:17 PM   
gridley

 

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The USSR claimed Bessarabia when they were not ready. They should have had enough troops on the border before making the claim that if the claim is denied they will not be stopped in Bessarabia.

Of course, when the USSR has adequate troops on the border, the claim is rarely denied.

Thank you for the thread...a pleasant change from the usual on this forum.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/17/2013 5:02:47 PM   
Centuur


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This depends on the actual situation on the battlefield itself and if the oil rule is in place.

First there is US entry. If the USSR is stupid enough to claim Bessarabia when US entry isn't high enough, than as Germany I would deny the claim, except when playing with oil. Otherwise, Germany should always accept the USSR claim. Never, ever go to war with the USSR over Rumania, when the oil rules are in effect. The Ploesti oilfields are far to important to risk being destroyed in Strategic bombardments by the USSR air force (which should be massed in Odessa and all STRAT factors are within range of Ploesti to make a huge bonfire out of those oilfields).

A 14 STRAT factor attack without interception... Now, isn't that nice: 60% change that no Rumanian oil is going to Germany/Italy and 40% on a destruction of 1 oil field and 10% on two oil fields! So an air impulse is taken and bombs away. Use Timoshenko to reorganise two planes and the next impulse, you do it again...
The USSR army isn't that good and a bad die roll on a land attack might mean a dead stop to your attacks on the Rumanians. That's life, so I would start with an all out air attack on the oil fields...

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Peter

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 3
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/17/2013 8:38:17 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

If Rumania and the USSR come to peace:
• Rumania again becomes a neutral minor country;
• the USSR keeps control of Bessarabia provided there is a Soviet land unit anywhere in Bessarabia; and
• Germany can declare Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria aligned with Germany during any later Axis declaration of war steps.


If the USSR doesn't push beyond Bessarabia Germany can can enforce a peace between Rumania and the USSR.

Germany now would be able to align Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria.

This opens up Greece for invasion by Italy, Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria.

Kingdom of Greece
II Infantry corps 4-3
Athens Militia corps (reserve) 3-2
III Mountain corps 4-4
FTR PZL P.24 (2,0,1,0)

Greece must keep one unit in Athens or Italy could amphibiously land troops there by sea.


quote:

19.7 Axis minor countries
Yugoslavia
An Axis major power that controls Athens can declare that Yugoslavia is aligning with it during any Axis declaration of war step if:
• Yugoslavia is neutral; and
• Italy, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania are all Axis controlled.


Then Yugoslavia could be aligned by Italy.

Strategically if the USSR claims Bessarabia they better be ready to conquer Rumania.


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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 4
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/18/2013 2:15:37 PM   
Extraneous

 

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I believe what Centuur is referring to is when Germany denies the Clam and the USSR has to declare war on Rumania.

Because if the USSR claims Bessarabia then Germany cannot go to war with the USSR unless the 19.5 The Nazi-Soviet pact has been broken.

quote:

19.5 The Nazi-Soviet pact
In all World in Flames scenarios that start after Jul/Aug 1939 and before Jul/Aug 1941, the USSR and Germany have a Nazi-Soviet pact in place that regulates their spheres of influence. They signed their pact on the 23rd August 1939 and Germany broke certain of its clauses on the 22nd of June 1941.

19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet pact
If a German controlled unit enters any hex in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Turkey or declares war on any of these countries, then the Soviet player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Allied declaration of war step. Setting up the Baltic States’ convs is not considered entering a hex in these countries.

If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary Norway, Sweden or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis declaration of war step. Once broken, there is no longer a neutrality pact (see 9.5 Neutrality pacts), nor a trade agreement (see 5.1 Trade agreements), between Germany and the USSR.




Lets look at what happens when the USSR's claim to Bessarabia is allowed.

quote:

Rumania allows the claim
If Rumania allows the claim, it stays neutral and Bessarabia becomes part of the USSR for all purposes until the USSR controls no hex in Bessarabia. At that point, Bessarabia again becomes part of Rumania. The USSR cannot declare war on Rumania until the USSR is at war with Germany.

Allowing the claim immediately reduces the resources the USSR supplies to Germany by 1 (see 5.1 Trade agreements).

In the next Axis declaration of war step, Hungary and Bulgaria make demands on Rumania for Transylvania and South Dobruja respectively. Germany, as mediator, must either allow both claims or deny both.

If Germany allows their claims:
• Transylvania becomes part of Hungary for all purposes. Germany can declare Hungary aligned with Germany during any later Axis declaration of war step.
• South Dobruja becomes part of Bulgaria for all purposes. Germany can declare Bulgaria aligned with Germany during any later Axis declaration of war step.
• Germany can declare Rumania aligned with Germany during any Axis declaration of war step if Germany has declared war on the USSR (not if the USSR has declared war on Germany), is at war with Yugoslavia, or controls Belgrade (Yugoslavia).



If Germany allows the Bulgaria/Hungary claims:
Germany can now align Bulgaria and Hungary.
Germany can only align Rumania if Germany declares war on the USSR (not if the USSR has declared war on Germany), is at war with Yugoslavia, or has conquered Yugoslavia.

This would mean that Germany could not align Yugoslavia until declaring war on the USSR, has aligned Rumania, and controls Athens (Greece).

The Axis can always declare war on Yugoslavia but that takes units and time.


The German/USSR trade agreement is reduced by 1 resource (not oil resources unless only oil resources remain). This doesn't necessarily adversely impact German production.


quote:

5.1 Trade agreements
In each turn, Germany must lend lease 2 build points to the USSR while the USSR must supply Germany with 7 resources (2 of them must be oil). These numbers can change if circumstances vary. For each of:
• Finland;
• Latvia;
• Estonia;
• Lithuania;
• Bulgaria;
• Hungary;
• Rumania; and
• Turkey, that an Axis major power either declares war on or aligns with (see 9.7 Controlling new minors, 9.8 Aligning minors and 19 Minor countries), reduce the number of resources the USSR must supply by 1 (minimum 0). Reduce the ordinary resources before you reduce any oil resources.

Reduce the number of resources by 1 from the turn that Finland allows a USSR claim on the Finnish borderlands (see 19.6.1 Finland) and by 1 from the turn that Rumania allows a USSR claim on Bessarabia (see 19.6.2 Rumania). Note that each minor country only reduces resources once even if claims are allowed and the minor is declared war on or aligned.





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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 5
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/18/2013 6:50:53 PM   
paulderynck


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Germany cannot DoW USSR due to the Pact, but she and Italy (if at war) can send units to Rumania to help against Russia. This can occur as per "Multiple States of War" in the rules.

So another thing it is wise for Russia to do before making the demand is to check where German units are (especially any ATRs and Mountain units), because they can really stymie a Russian attack if deployed to Rumania. As Germany can align Hungary anytime, she can easily do that at the beginning of her impulse and rail three units into Rumania.

Nevertheless, as Centuur points out, Axis units can't stop the Strat bombing of Ploesti, so denying the claim is always very dangerous against a well-set-up Russia, if it's an Oil game.

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Paul

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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 5:09:20 AM   
Extraneous

 

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I wouldn't restrict the bombing of the resources to just when you use 13.5.1 Oil (AfA option 48). After all denying any Germany resources is to the Allies advantage.

But I would say it is especially important when 13.5.1 Oil (AfA option 48) is in use.

quote:

13.6.1 Resources
Resources are printed on the map. The total resources in each country are recorded on the factory and resources table.

There are two types of resources - general resources and oil resources.
Oil and general resources are the same, except for strategic bombardment (11.7 Strategic bombardment) and the optional oil rule (AfA option 48 ~ see 13.5.1 Oil (AfA option 48)).




So lets look at the production aspects of Poland and the Balkans.

Greece has 1 resource.

Hungary has 1 resource (lend leased to Germany).

Poland has 3 blue factories and 2 resources.

Rumania has 3 oil resources (2 lend leased to Germany 1 to Italy).

Yugoslavia has 2 blue factories and 2 resources.




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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to paulderynck)
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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 6:49:55 AM   
paulderynck


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One of those Polish factories is red and Rumania and Hungary have a factory (blue and red, respectively). And Bulgaria has a resource.

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Paul

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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 1:07:39 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Bulgaria has 1 resource.

Greece has 1 resource.

Hungary has 1 blue factory and 1 resource (lend leased to Germany).

Poland has 1 red factory, 2 blue factories and 2 resources.

Rumania has 1 blue factory and 3 oil resources (2 lend leased to Germany 1 to Italy).

Yugoslavia has 2 blue factories and 2 resources.

(I had to update my spreadsheet to look up the information and missed a few) (Poland was color coded and I missed the red factory).

Glad your checking my work

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 4/19/2013 1:10:00 PM >


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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 1:19:05 PM   
Centuur


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Germany cannot affort to lose any oil resources due to strategic bombardment IMHO. They need every resource they can get their hands on for production as soon as possible in the game. Economics are everything in this game and even more important than the possible reactions regarding US entry. A 1939 build point extra is a huge boost for the Axis. This is also the reason I usually play aggressive with the Italians too. Screw the US! Go to war and see what happens. Dangerous: of course, but I've concluded a long time ago that for the Axis the first turn of the game is of utmost importance. Is it long: the prospects of an Axis win are good. Is it short: you might get into problems.

If the weather stays good in SO 1939, Germany should, apart from conquering Poland and Denmark, try to conquer the Netherlands (and if possible next impulse Belgium too...). They need the resources and the hexes on France before winter comes along. Now, if the Axis are really, really lucky with the weather staying nice in the first turn of the game, you might even see the demise of France happening... In one game, I lost France in SO 1939 due to continuing nice weather and the turn refusing to end together with a couple of very nice die rolls for Germany on attacks that turn (attacks which go into the area of: "well, the turn will end soon, so let's take a few low odds attacks while the weather is still nice and soften up the French a little bit"). How I hated the die that first turn as the allies...

As Germany: my first focus is on the French and not on the Balkans. The Balkans are not a primary objective to me.

However, other players might want to try to crush Yugoslavia in SO 1939 to press the USSR into claiming Bessarabia as soon as possible (before the Axis controls Belgrade and align Rumania). That is of course a valid strategy in this game, if the USSR doesn't set up his European army and airforce on the borders of Bessarabia (which I would regard as being a mistake by the USSR).



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Peter

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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 2:05:24 PM   
michaelbaldur


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or you can force CW into declaring war in SO 1939.

it is easy

any guesses ????

(it is only a -12 for CW dow Italy) ...so there a good chance that there are 2 chits and they can risk it

< Message edited by michaelbaldur -- 4/19/2013 2:09:04 PM >


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(in reply to Centuur)
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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 2:35:28 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Germany cannot affort to lose any oil resources due to strategic bombardment IMHO. They need every resource they can get their hands on for production as soon as possible in the game. Economics are everything in this game and even more important than the possible reactions regarding US entry. A 1939 build point extra is a huge boost for the Axis. This is also the reason I usually play aggressive with the Italians too. Screw the US! Go to war and see what happens. Dangerous: of course, but I've concluded a long time ago that for the Axis the first turn of the game is of utmost importance. Is it long: the prospects of an Axis win are good. Is it short: you might get into problems.

If the weather stays good in SO 1939, Germany should, apart from conquering Poland and Denmark, try to conquer the Netherlands (and if possible next impulse Belgium too...). They need the resources and the hexes on France before winter comes along. Now, if the Axis are really, really lucky with the weather staying nice in the first turn of the game, you might even see the demise of France happening... In one game, I lost France in SO 1939 due to continuing nice weather and the turn refusing to end together with a couple of very nice die rolls for Germany on attacks that turn (attacks which go into the area of: "well, the turn will end soon, so let's take a few low odds attacks while the weather is still nice and soften up the French a little bit"). How I hated the die that first turn as the allies...

As Germany: my first focus is on the French and not on the Balkans. The Balkans are not a primary objective to me.

However, other players might want to try to crush Yugoslavia in SO 1939 to press the USSR into claiming Bessarabia as soon as possible (before the Axis controls Belgrade and align Rumania). That is of course a valid strategy in this game, if the USSR doesn't set up his European army and airforce on the borders of Bessarabia (which I would regard as being a mistake by the USSR).




To appreciate the strategic situation in the Balkans, Germany needs to consider the situation on its Southern and Eastern fronts.

Southern front
How aggressive is the Italian player?
Where will Italy get more resources for its unused factories?

What will it take for the Commonwealth declare war on Italy?
What will the Commonwealth do about the Iraqi oil after France is crushed?


Eastern front
What size of garrison does Germany plan for Poland after it is crushed?

Most importantly what will The USSR be doing while Germany is busy crushing France?



As you have said production is paramount in WiF.

German Production
Hungary has 1 blue factory and 1 resource (lend leased to Germany).

Poland has 1 red factory, 2 blue factories and 2 resources.

Rumania has 1 blue factory and is lend leasing 2 oil resources to Germany.

Aligning Bulgaria will gain Germany 1 resource.

Gaining 3 additional resources gives Germany 2.25 additional BP in 1939 and 1940.


Italian Production
Rumania is lend leasing 1 oil resource to Italy.

Conquering Greece will gain Italy 1 resource (a gain of 0.5 BP in 1939 and 0.75 BP in 1940).

Italy aligning Yugoslavia would gain 2 blue factories and 2 resources (Yugoslavia alone would give Italy 1 BP in 1939 and 1.5 BP in 1940).




_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 12
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 7:27:36 PM   
Centuur


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To align Yugoslavia, the Axis have to:

1. Control Athens
2. Control Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania, Italy and Rumania.

To get this done in 1939, the Italians have to first conquer Greece. To do that with the small army the Italians have (which they also need to use to defend the French-Italian border) and a huge CW/French navy in the Med is not possible. It is far to easy for the French fleet to sail into Italian waters, which the Italian Fleet than needs to answer. The Italians can only use combined impulses when neutral, and the activities limits of combined impulses for Italy are very, very poor. So Italy needs to DoW a Major before it can even consider to take Greece out. And even than it hasn't got the troops available to make this possible...

Also: Germany needs to deny the USSR claim, thus forcing a war between the USSR and Rumania. During that war, Bulgaria can't be aligned by the Germans and there is the danger on the Ploesti oil fields...

Personally I think the Balkans aren't of any strategic importance to Germany before the fall of France. After that it really depends on the situation at that time.

I would, as the Italians, DoW the French and see if it is possible to pursue gains into Tunesia, Algeria and Morocco towards Gibraltar, which is the key point of the Med. Greece can wait, perhaps even for ever.

And the German garrison in Poland? The USSR army lacks manpower to DoW the Germans early 1940. 8 lousy German controlled INF means the USSR has to gather 32 Garrison points to get the job done. That's simply not possible for the USSR in the early stages of the game. The USSR builds are tanks in the first couple of turns, not the fast appearing INF...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 4/19/2013 7:40:09 PM >


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Peter

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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/19/2013 7:44:03 PM   
michaelbaldur


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the first Italian impulse you move a transporter onto red sea and pick up the infantry.

the second impulse you move the second (and last) transporter into the red sea and pick up the supply unit.

this will in most games force CW to DOW Italy.

but at the cost of getting the Italian transporters isolate in east Africa. and Italy will be inactive for some time (till they build new transporters)

but if you plan on taking Egypt. then does Transports will be in play again soon. (not like they are lost)

< Message edited by michaelbaldur -- 4/20/2013 10:38:45 AM >


_____________________________

Peyton manning is a God and the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 14
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/20/2013 12:43:12 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

To align Yugoslavia, the Axis have to:

1. Control Athens
2. Control Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania, Italy and Rumania.

To get this done in 1939, the Italians have to first conquer Greece. To do that with the small army the Italians have (which they also need to use to defend the French-Italian border) and a huge CW/French navy in the Med is not possible. It is far to easy for the French fleet to sail into Italian waters, which the Italian Fleet than needs to answer. The Italians can only use combined impulses when neutral, and the activities limits of combined impulses for Italy are very, very poor. So Italy needs to DoW a Major before it can even consider to take Greece out. And even than it hasn't got the troops available to make this possible...

Also: Germany needs to deny the USSR claim, thus forcing a war between the USSR and Rumania. During that war, Bulgaria can't be aligned by the Germans and there is the danger on the Ploesti oil fields...

Personally I think the Balkans aren't of any strategic importance to Germany before the fall of France. After that it really depends on the situation at that time.

I would, as the Italians, DoW the French and see if it is possible to pursue gains into Tunesia, Algeria and Morocco towards Gibraltar, which is the key point of the Med. Greece can wait, perhaps even for ever.

And the German garrison in Poland? The USSR army lacks manpower to DoW the Germans early 1940. 8 lousy German controlled INF means the USSR has to gather 32 Garrison points to get the job done. That's simply not possible for the USSR in the early stages of the game. The USSR builds are tanks in the first couple of turns, not the fast appearing INF...


If Italy wanted it could DoW France and Greece on the same impulse.

quote:

9.2 How to declare war
All major powers on this side announce which major powers on the other side they are declaring war on this impulse. They then all announce which neutral minor countries they are declaring war on this impulse.


Lets look at a scenario Centuur's post #1 - Rumania and Bessarabia and expand on it.

The turn ended and Germany declared peace. Rumania reverts to a minor neutral country.

The next turn Nov/Dec 1939 goes 3 impulses

Impulse 1: Germany aligns Rumania.
Impulse 2: Italy DoW's France, Germany and Italy DoW Greece. Germany aligns Bulgaria. Bulgaria and Rumania move to the Bulgaria/Greece border.
Impulse 3: Germany aligns Hungary. Italy can align Yugoslavia if Athens has been captured.



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 4/20/2013 1:03:14 PM >


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(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 15
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/20/2013 6:32:31 PM   
paulderynck


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The Rumanians can get only their HQ and one other unit to the border due to FTC.

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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/20/2013 6:40:50 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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First: I stay with my earlier statement that Germany should always allow the USSR claim on Bessarabia, except when the USSR airforce isn't able to bomb Ploesti in force and the US won't be able to DoW the Euroaxis anymore...

Now: let's expand on those two "2"'s on the battlefield, the succesfull bombing of Ploesti by the USSR (thus robbing Germany of two oil resources and was very lucky that there wasn't a destruction of an oilfield...

Than you will get the alignment of countries as stated. Now there is a problem with the Italian/German DoW on Greece and the German DoW on Greece. This means a lot of US entry die rolls (not very nice for the axis).
Look at the map of Greece. Only the Bulgarian army can move into Greece, together with the Italian army in Albania, since there aren't any German forces in Bulgaria. The Greeks have two land units to defend. I assume the Italian has got a DIV on a SCS (no AMPH are available for invasions...) to invade Athens if the Greeks don't setup a unit in Athens. This means the Greek MTN is put into the MTN's south of the Alpine hexside. The terrain is mostly mountains, doubling the defense factors of the Greeks and slowing the Italian/Bulgarian advance. The Italians won't be able to get a hex on Athens in three impulses, without disorganising units. And that's with good weather, when there is a 50% possibility on bad weather appearing in ND... If the turn ends, the Greek army gets another MIL in Athens and the alignment of Yugoslavia is postponed for another year. I think it is to be expected that the turn ends, before the Italians can attack the Greeks in force...
Or: what happens if the CW transports an INF into Greece? Nice, a CW peacekeeper in Athens. Don't forget: the Italians are advertising with an attack on Greece because of the setup of units in Albania, so the CW can prepare for this.

And there is the French navy on the move to kill the Italian fleet, German forces need to defend the French-Italian border, since a large part of the Italian forces will be in Albania with the Italian HQ's to reorganise units which flip because the Italians can't affort to spend a lot of time in Greece. All this weakens the German assault on Belgium (if the weather is OK, Germany should kill the Netherland and Belgium in 1939) and France.

Why do you think the Italian army got stalled in Greece in 1940? It was because the Italian army isn't a good one and Greece isn't the walk-over you presume it is. A good defense of Greece against the Italians is possible, especially during the winter.


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Peter

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Post #: 17
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/20/2013 8:53:40 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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The Greek mountain unit in the mountains is tripled on defense. It gets uglier if the weather isn't bright and sunny.

The Bulgarians also have limits on how many units can leave Bulgaria.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 4/20/2013 8:57:51 PM >


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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 18
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/20/2013 11:44:05 PM   
Extraneous

 

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The Axis should have the initiative so no CW peacekeepers.

Weather Mediterranean zone Nov/Dec: 50% Fair, 30% Rain, 10% Storm, and 10% Snow.

quote:


As for " the French navy on the move to kill the Italian fleet" it's a surprise impulse for France.

quote:

15.1 Surprise effects
Naval units
If a port attack or a naval combat at sea only involves units controlled by major powers declaring war, and the major powers they are declaring war on, the surprised units always get 0 surprise points. The attacking major powers get the normal number (this will increase the number of net surprise points the attacker can spend, if there is any combat).




quote:


"Than you will get the alignment of countries as stated. Now there is a problem with the Italian/German DoW on Greece and the German DoW on Greece. This means a lot of US entry die rolls (not very nice for the axis)."

Italy has a 70% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool.

Greece is an "Other minor"
Italy has a 30% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool.
Germany has a 30% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool.

This is highly acceptable to me.

quote:


7. Italy declares war on CW or France or both (70% chance a USA entry chit will be added to the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)

20. The Axis declares war on: (if Japan declares war place USA entry chit in the USA (Ja) entry pool else place it in the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)
Poland, Spain, Turkey or any American country (1 USA entry chit and a 20% chance of another will be added to the USA entry pool)
Belgium, Finland, Rumania, Sweden or Switzerland (There is a 80% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool)
Other minor (There is a 30% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool)




quote:


"German forces need to defend the French-Italian border, since a large part of the Italian forces will be in Albania with the Italian HQ's to reorganise units which flip because the Italians can't afford to spend a lot of time in Greece."

I choose to call out and use the Italian reserves.


quote:


"I assume the Italian has got a DIV on a SCS (no AMPH are available for invasions...) to invade Athens if the Greeks don't setup a unit in Athens."

Why have only 1 division?

quote:


Breaking down
You build divisions in the usual way (see 13.6.5 Building units). Alternatively, you can break down a face-up corps or army that isn’t in an enemy ZOC into divisions at the start of the production step. Each corps or army breaks down into 1 division of the same type and 1 INF or MOT division (your choice). SS corps break down into 1 equivalent SS division and 1 SS or normal INF or MOT division.





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(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 19
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/21/2013 12:24:17 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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You don't understand me:

Look at the turn itself in N/D and the activities limits:

Impulse one: Germany aligns Rumania, Italy moves a SCS with a Div into the Eastern Med (Italy is neutral and neutral countries can only move a single ship as a naval move. So you can move a max of two DIV to threathen Greece) and is, together with the massing of units in Albania, advertising it's intent to attack Greece.
Impulse two: Allied impulse. Naval impulse for CW and France to move some CL into the Italian waters, thus cutting supply to Albania, if the Italians DoW France or the CW.
Impulse three: Italy DoW's France and Greece, Germany DoW's Greece and aligns Bulgaria. CW takes control of the Greeks. Italy takes a land impulse and moves into Greece. An Italian NAV is used to get the Albanian units in supply, using the only Italian air activity allowed. So no all out attack in the surprise impulse on the remaining French fleet in French ports. France loses the CL it moved into Italian waters? It doesn't care. One Bulgarian unit moves into Greece. Two Rumanian units move into Bulgaria. There will not be an attack on Greek units, since the Italian units are either disorganised for movement through the mountians or not in contact with the Greek MTN. This ends the mighty Italian surprise impulse against the French and the Greeks. Didn't I mentioned before that the Italian activities limits are very, very poor?
Impulse four: CW TRS an INF (or maybe even two) into Greece, acting as a peacekeeper against the Italians, blocking the access to Athens. The Greek MTN retreats. Only the Bulgarians/Rumanians can attack the CW units. Thus ends the Italian aggression against the Greeks, except when Italy declares war on the CW. And if the Italians DoW the CW? What can they do in that surprise impulse against units sitting in mountains in Greece? Not very much, I'm afraid with only one air activity in a land impulse...

The Italian reserves are only four units. Two of those have to arrive in Milan and Rome. You can choose to put the other two in Turin. All these units arrive disorganised. So you need at least one other INF type unit to guard the border, otherwise the French might be tempted to try to capture the Italian resource in the Alps and move towards the factory at Genoa. Now, you might say the Italians can strip the North African coast of units in SO 1939 to get the necessary firepower in Italy and Albania. This however, means that the Italian TRS are sitting in the MED during SO 1939. How I would love to DoW the Italians when those TRS are sailing without any fleet to cover those. As the French or the CW I would gladly DoW Italy and say to the USSR: "screw your plan for taking Bessarabia, if we blow the Italian TRS out of the water, the Italians are effectively crippled in all actions in Northern Africa". As the USSR I would support the Western allies in this, knowing that I can wait a turn for the claiming of Bessarabia.

Personally I think you are looking at the Balkans without taking into account the reaction of the other side. Action means reaction in this game. Every opening move is followed with counter measures from the other side. The allied side should try to do everything in their power to hinder the Axis and not wait for things to happen. If the Allies are waiting for the hammer to fall, it will fall. Time is on the Allied side, not on the Axis side.

I again say: I would love to see a strategic happening on the board as you are pursuing. As the Allies I get a good shot on the Ploesti oil field. I get the possibility to see if I'm able to get a USSR unit in Rumania, thus prolonging that war. If that fails, as the allies I get a huge number of US entry alignment and DoW rolls in 1939. I see a stupid move from the puny Italian forces into Greece, which the Italians can't conquer, if the CW puts one or two INF into that country. How nice it is to see a some heavy German units leave for the Med before the fall of France. I might even be tempted to sail the CW CV's into Italian waters to try to kill the Italian TRS by DoW'ing the Italians if US entry is high enough.

Sure: in the long run the allies will lose Greece against the superior German Wehrmacht. Also, France will fall in due time. I've no doubt about that happening. However, it might look like the time table for this is really bad for the Axis because of the early moves in the Balkans.

And finally: how nice it would be to align Yugoslavia to the allied cause in J/F 1940 by moving four CW corps into Greece. Far fetched: not at all! It's winter, so the French should be able to hold out against the German Wehrmacht during that turn. As the CW I really would try to get this done, resulting in a huge mess in the Euroaxis timetable regarding the vichyfication (or conquest) of France...



< Message edited by Centuur -- 4/21/2013 12:34:07 PM >


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Peter

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Post #: 20
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/21/2013 8:21:39 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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About moving 4 Commonwealth infantry into Greece (or Yugoslavia). If the infantry are available, 2 transports can do the trick in a single turn, provided an HQ is available to reorganize the transports once they return from delivering the first 2 units.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 21
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/21/2013 10:23:03 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

Impulse one: Germany aligns Rumania, Italy moves a SCS with a Div into the Eastern Med (Italy is neutral and neutral countries can only move a single ship as a naval move. So you can move a max of two DIV to threathen Greece) and is, together with the massing of units in Albania, advertising it's intent to attack Greece.

Impulse two: Allied impulse. Naval impulse for CW and France to move some CL into the Italian waters, thus cutting supply to Albania, if the Italians DoW France or the CW.

Impulse three: Italy DoW's France and Greece, Germany DoW's Greece and aligns Bulgaria. CW takes control of the Greeks. Italy takes a land impulse and moves into Greece. An Italian NAV is used to get the Albanian units in supply, using the only Italian air activity allowed. So no all out attack in the surprise impulse on the remaining French fleet in French ports. France loses the CL it moved into Italian waters? It doesn't care. One Bulgarian unit moves into Greece. Two Rumanian units move into Bulgaria. There will not be an attack on Greek units, since the Italian units are either disorganised for movement through the mountians or not in contact with the Greek MTN. This ends the mighty Italian surprise impulse against the French and the Greeks. Didn't I mentioned before that the Italian activities limits are very, very poor?



Italian activities limits
Land action: 1x air missions, 1x naval move, 2x land moves, unlimited land attack, and 3x rail moves.
Combined action: 3x air missions, 1x naval move, 2x land moves, 1x land attack, and 1x rail moves.

The Italian set up:
Italy or Albania:
Graziani (HQ-A), Libia MECH, 1x MOT, 1x INF, Alpini MTN, 1x GUN, 1x INF division, and 1x FROG

Libya:
1x INF, 1x GAR, 1x GUN, and 2x TERR

Ethiopia or Italian Somaliland:
1x INF and 2x TERR

Reserves
IV INF, XIII GARR, Milan MIL, and Rome MIL

Europe
Balbo (HQ-I), 2x FTR 2, 1x LND 3, 1x NAV 2, and 4x Pilots

Aircraft pool: 2x FTR 2 and 1x LND 2

quote:

If the set up gives you some latitude (e.g. “Europe” or “Burma”), you can set up the unit in any hex you or a co-operating major power controls in that place.

A neutral major power can only set up in hexes it controls.



My initial set up:
Northern Italy: Graziani (HQ-A) (5 (2)), Libya MECH (5-5), 2x FTR 2, 1x NAV 2, and 1x FROG

Naples: 1x INF

Taranto: 1x INF division and 1x SCS

Albania: Balbo (HQ-I) (3 (3)), 1x MOT, Alpini MTN, and 1x LND 3

Libya: 1x INF, 1x GAR, 1x GUN, and 2x TERR

Ethiopia or Italian Somaliland: 1x INF and 2x TERR

Aircraft pool: 2x FTR 2 and 1x LND 2

Sep/Oct 1939
Naples: 1x INF breaks down into 2x INF divisions.

Nov/Dec 1939
Italian 1st Impulse: 1 Heavy cruiser with 1x INF division to Eastern Mediterranean Sea, sea box 4.

Allied 1st Impulse: CW and France choose a Naval impulse to move some CL into the Italian Coast, thus cutting supply to Albania, if the Italians DoW France or the CW.

Axis 2nd Impulse: Italy DoW's France and Greece, Germany DoW's Greece and aligns Bulgaria.

quote:

You cannot trace a supply path into a sea area that contains:
• an enemy CV, SCS or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor;
• unless it also contains a surface naval unit, or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor, (SiF option 11: convoy, TRS, or AMPH only) controlled by any major power or minor country at war with that enemy unit.


The Italians flies 1x NAV 2 into the Italian Coast, sea box 4. Albania is still in supply.

Weather is Fair.



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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 22
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/22/2013 6:14:16 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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First: your deployment in Albania means the Italians have only about 15 combat factors to attack the Greeks, who have a 12 factor defense with the MTN alone in the mountains. It is far to few to make a succesfull attack on Greece, even with 4 additional Bulgarian factors. The Rumanians are lagging one impulse behind and can also only field about 5 factors. This give you a 2-1 at most (and if the CW gets 2 INF into Greece, the situation gets even worse).

Second: in a land impulse, you are not allowed to make any naval moves (you think otherwise) and have an unlimited number of land moves...

Third: during a three impulses long attack in N/D 1939 in the Med, it is folly to think you will have nice weather all along. Statistics show you have a 50% opportunity for rain, storm or snow appearing each impulse. Don't expect the weather to be fair, it won't be.

Fourth: of course the Italians fly the NAV. I want to make sure as the allies that they have to do that to get the units in Albania in supply. It prevents the Italian air force from ground striking the Greeks or to port attack the French fleet in the surprise impulse, because they have only 1 air activity in a land impulse. Moving those CL into Italian waters is only to get this done. I see it as an aggressive defensive action.
As the allies, I don't expect the Italians to stay out of supply in Albania. No sir, I want to force the Italians into actions which I want them to do as the allies. That way, I control certain actions and won't get surprised by any Italian moves or am able to soften the effects of a surprise impulse by Italy against a possible DoW by Italy on either (or all) of France, Commonwealth or Greece.

Again: I would love to play the Allies against an Axis player taking these kind of risks. The problem with the Balkans in 1939 and early 1940 is simply that the German Wehrmacht is busy elsewhere. The Italian army haven't got the muscle to eliminate the Greeks alone. They need the Wehrmacht to succeed.

And finally: what is the grand strategy of the Axis? That has to be top priority. Most players start to kill Poland and France. That's an easy decision to make. But after that you've got three options:
- Sealion
- Close the MED, followed by a Sea Lion or a 1942/1943 Barbarossa
- Barbarossa

If I choose the first (which is overall a high risk, high gain operation), I won't go after the Greeks but go for a huge battle of the atlantic, build TRS and MAR and do nothing at all in the Balkans.

If I choose the second (which seems to be the best option) I'll conquer France (or Vichy it and collapse it very soon after that), kill Franco and go for Gibraltar (which isn't a walk over, but can be done, especially if Italy can grab Algeria and Morocco) and Suez. After that, well it's time for Sealion or a 1942 Barbarossa. The Balkans, perhaps somewhere between the closure of the Med and the Sealion...

If I choose for Barbarossa, I might be tempted to go for Greece if France falls soon enough so that some time is left before I can get the necessary garrison ratio's to break the Nazi-Soviet pact. But even than I have to make sure that the German Wehrmacht can get involved in Albania, because the Italian army itself is too weak to fight in the Greek mountains.

The Italians have a nice navy and a reasonable good air force, but the Italian army lacks firepower agaist all enemy's in good defensive positions...






< Message edited by Centuur -- 4/22/2013 6:53:51 PM >


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Peter

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 23
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/22/2013 6:53:51 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Historically, the Greeks drove the Italians back into Albania. However, they got tied down there and were unable to disengage when the Germans attacked their eastern flank from Bulgaria and Yugoslavia; the few Commonwealth units that had landed in northern Greece were easily driven south.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 24
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/22/2013 7:26:28 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Since the Italians only get 1 naval move.

Battleships: Guilio Cesare and Conte di Cavour (11 attack factors)

Heavy cruisers: Abruzzi, Bolzano, Duca D'Aosta, E. Di Savoia, Fiume, Garibaldi, Gorizia, Pola, San Giorgio, Trento, Trieste, and Zara (35 attack factors)

Light cruisers: Attendolo, Bande Nere, Barbiano, Bari, Cadorna, Colleoni, Diaz, Guissano, Montecuccoli, and Taranto (15 attack factors)

Carrying 2x INF divisions

2x Submarines

Will be "Fighting your way through" the French Light cruisers and into the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, sea box 3.

If you only sent 1 French Light cruiser its toast.

If you sent all 4 French Light cruisers your attack factor would be 6 while my SCS attack factor would be 61 (I just don't feel like figuring the subs attack factors).

I would use my surprise points to reduce your odds hopefully to 1 to 2 where I would abort 1 Light cruiser.

The French losses without modification would be 1 sunk and 2 damaged.

Now if the CW wishes to attempt a naval combat at sea all it's going to cost them is...

quote:

22. The CW or France or both declare war on Italy (1 USA entry chit and a 20% chance of another will be removed from the USA (Ge/It) entry pool).
If the CW and France don't declare war on the Italy in the same impulse this done separately for both the CW and France.


Has the USA enough chits on the Nov/Dec 1939 turn?



I now have 3x INF divisions to invade Athens.

I can add 1x LND 3 and 3 points of shore bombardment. This gives me odds of 9 to 1 against the Greek notational (if you didn't leave a unit in Athens).

You get a +1 for the city.

I get a + 18 for having odds of 9 to 1.

Greece suffers a complete conquest. Oh, yes I over stacked when I take Athens and loose 1x INF division (if I don't get a breakthrough).




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Post #: 25
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/23/2013 5:50:59 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
(I just don't feel like figuring the subs attack factors).


Just as well, subs can't move in the same naval move as ships.

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Post #: 26
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/23/2013 6:07:24 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
I now have 3x INF divisions to invade Athens.

I can add 1x LND 3 and 3 points of shore bombardment. This gives me odds of 9 to 1 against the Greek notational (if you didn't leave a unit in Athens).

You get a +1 for the city.

I get a + 18 for having odds of 9 to 1.

Greece suffers a complete conquest. Oh, yes I over stacked when I take Athens and loose 1x INF division (if I don't get a breakthrough).


You can only move two units with an Italian Combined. Best divs would still be '2' factor units. Two of those halved for invading gives two factors, tripled to 6 at most with shore bombardment and ground support. Defense is 1 plus 1 for the city, minus 1 for Surprise. For 2D10 the City defensive mod cancels the notional mod. Attack would be a +12. Probability of success is 88%, because any result where you lose more than one unit is a failure.

You need the Unlimited Breakdown option "On" to get two 2-strength Divs. In normal WiFFE you would have a 1 and a 2 and could only attack with a net of 4.5 factors, yielding a +10 after rounding up and a 77% chance for success.

You would not be overstacked even if you could move all three Divs, but if you could have been overstacked, you would not be allowed to make the move because you cannot voluntarily overstack.



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Paul

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Post #: 27
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/23/2013 4:43:58 PM   
brian brian

 

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The best amphibious attack the Italians can ever get in 1939 is 6 factors when in range of their land-based air, some of which has good range. They need 4 impulses to assemble such a landing, or be at war with a Major Power. To get to 6 factors in WiF:FE, they have to be invading from a sea zone with an Italian port so a Motorized division could land from a TRS, or invade from a lower box and increase the notional. MWIF will allow them to get 2 infantry divisions instead, increasing their flexibility a little.

In an average game the Allies put all 3 US Entry chits in the European pool to start, and many CW players use them (perhaps unless they are on the high side) to attack Italy on the 1st turn, taking a shot at the Italian TRS while surprised Italian FTR can't intercept. After that heavy French and Royal Navy forces dare the Italians to leave port and fight.

In the Balkans - Italian, Bulgarian, and Rumanian forces can not co-operate and can achieve little in Greece until Germans arrive, more likely in 1940. Rumanians activated in 1939 could not even march to Greece until late summer 1940 at best unless Yugoslavia was somehow involved in the war. Rumanians activated in Jan/Feb 1940 would not make it to a Greek front until the spring of 1940 at best and would add little.

Most German players allow the claim on Bessarabia, unless the Russians are attempting the claim simultaneously with some other scheme elsewhere and don't have much force on the Rumanian border. Some German players like to block the possibility of any claim by attacking Yugoslavia and aligning Rumania on the 2nd Axis impulse. The von Bock HQ, a medium bomber and a few INF can keep Prince Paul bottled up just fine until 1940. Sure, the Allies could land on the Croatian coast. My my my, says the spider to the fly.





I think the best use of early Axis aggression and the resulting USE penalties is to break down the Italian MTN division at start and use the mountain division to land in Algeria on an Italian surprise impulse. This pressures the Allies more directly than a forlorn 1939 Axis campaign in Greece.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 28
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/23/2013 6:46:15 PM   
Centuur


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Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

The best amphibious attack the Italians can ever get in 1939 is 6 factors when in range of their land-based air, some of which has good range. They need 4 impulses to assemble such a landing, or be at war with a Major Power. To get to 6 factors in WiF:FE, they have to be invading from a sea zone with an Italian port so a Motorized division could land from a TRS, or invade from a lower box and increase the notional. MWIF will allow them to get 2 infantry divisions instead, increasing their flexibility a little.

In an average game the Allies put all 3 US Entry chits in the European pool to start, and many CW players use them (perhaps unless they are on the high side) to attack Italy on the 1st turn, taking a shot at the Italian TRS while surprised Italian FTR can't intercept. After that heavy French and Royal Navy forces dare the Italians to leave port and fight.

In the Balkans - Italian, Bulgarian, and Rumanian forces can not co-operate and can achieve little in Greece until Germans arrive, more likely in 1940. Rumanians activated in 1939 could not even march to Greece until late summer 1940 at best unless Yugoslavia was somehow involved in the war. Rumanians activated in Jan/Feb 1940 would not make it to a Greek front until the spring of 1940 at best and would add little.

Most German players allow the claim on Bessarabia, unless the Russians are attempting the claim simultaneously with some other scheme elsewhere and don't have much force on the Rumanian border. Some German players like to block the possibility of any claim by attacking Yugoslavia and aligning Rumania on the 2nd Axis impulse. The von Bock HQ, a medium bomber and a few INF can keep Prince Paul bottled up just fine until 1940. Sure, the Allies could land on the Croatian coast. My my my, says the spider to the fly.





I think the best use of early Axis aggression and the resulting USE penalties is to break down the Italian MTN division at start and use the mountain division to land in Algeria on an Italian surprise impulse. This pressures the Allies more directly than a forlorn 1939 Axis campaign in Greece.

I agree on this. Put the three US entry chits in the Italian/German box. In the first allied impulse the CW fleet with CV's sails agressively into Italians water. Now if the Italians don't respond with a DoW on the CW, the CW tries to kill the Italian TRS in the surprise impulse during port attacks. Kill the TRS and the Italians are crippled. These kind of allied actions are those which gives the Italians something to think about: to DoW the CW or not to DoW them...

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Peter

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Post #: 29
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 4/23/2013 6:48:41 PM   
SLAAKMAN


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Centuur,
quote:


If the weather stays good in SO 1939, Germany should, apart from conquering Poland and Denmark, try to conquer the Netherlands (and if possible next impulse Belgium too...). They need the resources and the hexes on France before winter comes along. Now, if the Axis are really, really lucky with the weather staying nice in the first turn of the game, you might even see the demise of France happening... In one game, I lost France in SO 1939 due to continuing nice weather and the turn refusing to end together with a couple of very nice die rolls for Germany on attacks that turn (attacks which go into the area of: "well, the turn will end soon, so let's take a few low odds attacks while the weather is still nice and soften up the French a little bit"). How I hated the die that first turn as the allies...

Doh! Dangit Centuur, that early French Gambit is one of my favorite tricks to pull on the Entente!!

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Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 30
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